I do think this will be an interesting trend to watch. Today is the first day in several that I have seen the numbers increase (yesterday, they were as low as 1,071,XXX). One of two factors (or both) may be exhibited by the numbers. The first factor is the reduction in the number of auto relists (I do know that this was applied to existing auctions as well as new ones). I would think it would be too early to see a significant effect from this, but I may be wrong. The other factor is some sellers who disagree with the recent changes and cancelled their listings. I know of some large sellers who did do this, but I also have seen posts of people who said they have added significant number of listings. Therefore I would hesitate to say this is the significant factor. As I said, it will be interesting to see what happens in the next several days and weeks.
posted on October 25, 2001 01:08:52 PM
With 3 day ads, 30 day ads and all the options in between it's hard to predict when the #'s might fall fast. BV has edited every open auction to auto-relist 20 times. But...
1. Premier Sellers never have to verify as long as they pay their monthly dues.
2. Sellers who already have a CC on file to list in adult do not have to re-verify until 2/6/02.
3. Sellers who joined before 3/11/01 and have a 5+ rating do not have to verify until 2/6/02.
4. Sellers who joined before 3/11/01 but have less than 5 ratings have to verify beginning 11/6/01.
5. Sellers who joined between 3/11 and 10/16 have to verify beginning 11/6/01.
6. Sellers who joined after 10/17 have to be verified before listing.
I fit group 3, my ads are 7 days so that would make them run until March. But I will not verify so ads ending the week of 2/6 will be blocked from relisting. I will also be blocked from listing any new ads after 11/6.
Unverified Group 4&5 sellers will be blocked from listing or relisting after 11-6. Sellers who haven't read the announcement board are in for a shock on their ads ending after 11/6> a mailbox full of closed auction notices and a demand to pay up if they want to relist. With no prior notice how happy will they be with that news? The #'s will be most interesting towards the end of Nov and the end of Feb. Then we'll see how many sellers are willing to pay up or move on.
posted on October 25, 2001 01:31:04 PM
The major bookselling storefront may decide to use the opening-soon Wharehouse selling venue that will have cheaper FVF than Half.com . That would cause a 299,000+ drop in listing numbers unless they decide to do both venues ( all sales subject to prior sale is in all of their auction descriptions even though it is against the Bidville TOS ).( also a $6 Priority Mail s/h fee on all items )
posted on October 25, 2001 01:53:24 PM
It was posted that the bookselling storefront already sold on several other sites before it was listed on Bidville. Looks like it is trying to post on as many sites as possible which appears to be the reason for the prior sale disclaimer.
posted on October 31, 2001 12:31:02 PM
And the band played on as the water continued to flow and the good ship Prozac Prez continued its rapid drop into the bottom of the dead auction ocean.
posted on November 4, 2001 01:19:09 PM
It appears that a few sellers are listing tons of commons in the sportscard section to offset the decrease in listings overall. They had better break out the 3200 count boxes because in 2 days when the scam sets in, the numbers of real items will plumet.
posted on November 4, 2001 05:13:34 PM
I believe the rise in the number of listed items may be due to the fact that November 6th is a milestone date for BV as that is the the date when only verified sellers can list or relist items. Perhaps many sellers that do not plan to pay for verification or elect to buy a membership plan have decided to list or relist all of their items on BV now, probably at the current maximum limits of 30 days at 20 relists which is almost a 2 year listing run. The Take It Now or First Bid Wins format is probably the main option on most of these auctions. A decline in total listings numbers may start after the November 6th milestone as items are not allowed to be relisted by absent or uncaring and of course unverified owners.
posted on November 4, 2001 08:30:16 PM
I also wonder what the numbers will do after the 6th. There was no email notice sent with the details of the changes and not all of the members frequent the message boards. Time will tell.
posted on November 4, 2001 09:22:28 PM
That lack of email notification of major events by BV management could help escalate a decline in the listings total.
BTW, Cuff I did not bid on your items or Dreamgirl's as you have stated on the BV boards. Your paranoia is incredible. To help BV sellers to see some of their post 11/06 vulnerabilites I will illustrate a few. Many users may have set up multile accounts before the deadlines ( sorry Cuff, I only have one account left not the 2,200 you think ). Those accounts present a problem. My suggest to Barney, I mean Bryan is to block the ISP of all suspended users from now on. This may cost BV a few legit users as many people may share a commom PC but it would be worth it in the long run.
Another weakness in the current and post 11/6 BV is the ability of mischief makers to acquire new accounts easily ( only a few free email account sites are actually blocked ) and bid on items of vocal BVers that have decided not to 'mask' their identites on the BV boards. As you saw the TIN or First Bid Wins auctions are vulnerable but also any featured or gallery auctions. Negative feedbacks can not be left against the seller but that is a moot point as the feedback is removed most of the time anyway as the mischief account is suspended. But BV for some reason ( greed? ) will not refund the hefty 50 cents to $5 feature listing fee so the sellers face a loss of money there. The cancel bid function helps a bit when a mischief maker lists Afghanistan in the mandatory location field but what happens when they list a regular city? The 'block user with zero feedback' function helps some but that will not sit well with legit new users that are denied the opprotunity to bid on items after paying to get verified.
I am trying to help BV by pointing out the weak spots and maybe the gang can now work on these weak areas and help BV devise some remedies to the areas.
I am in no way am trying to hurt BV but instead am trying to help the site.
[ edited by bidsbids on Nov 4, 2001 09:36 PM ]
posted on November 4, 2001 09:37:54 PM
Another recent problem with Bidville is the fact that they allow members to slander former members or other people without any recourse.
posted on November 4, 2001 10:43:14 PM
The point may be that a seller is really only vulnerable to these attacks if they act in a hateful manner on the boards and use their actually seller ID to post on the message center. Some of the vocal members have discussed the possibilty of changing their message board ID(s) to thwart this type of abuse and that is an excellent idea. The actual seller ID is a very important item that should always be safeguarded at all times, much like a password.
posted on November 5, 2001 05:58:39 AMAnother recent problem with Bidville is the fact that they allow members to slander former members or other people without any recourse
That wasn't my experience, but it may have changed.
When I left the site, there were all kinds of immature "good riddance" types posts about me (no problem), plus several that made incorrect assumptions and accusations about me (problem). These types of posts are below-the-belt chicken dung tactics that never happened when I was able to respond, and came mostly from those who are not smart enough to be able to defend their statements and accusations with facts or reason. You know, the type who are stuck for an answer when you say "Good morning" to them
I emailed Ed and asked him to remove the threads, especially those that had my "buzzoon" name in the headers. He didn't remove them, but He did lock them for which I am thankful.
posted on November 5, 2001 09:04:10 AM
In todays events, a thread promoting Yahoo Canada is up with no sign of removal. Hillbilly talked about Balls And Strikes. I may be wrong but the trouble between him and Prez started when Balls posted something about the new Yahoo Warehouse. The post was removed within minutes. That started a chain of events. The site has no rules, no morals and no ethics. Oh and no bids.
[ edited by holysmokes on Nov 5, 2001 09:12 AM ]
posted on November 5, 2001 09:21:48 AM
Hi holysmokes ...
IF I owned an auction venue, and IF I had faith in what I was doing and IF I believed I was doing it right, the mention of my competition on my venue's forums would not cause me the least bit of concern.
If, however, I believed that the other venues had more to offer than mine and if I wasn't willing or able to provide similar features to attract their customers, I would probably censor all talk about them on my forums.
The type of posts that I am referring to are those weazel stab-in-the-back shots that are leveled at persons who cannot fight back because they have been stifled by the referee.
Only a coward keeps kicking once his opponent is down. There was (maybe still is) a lot of them on His forums.
[ edited by RB on Nov 5, 2001 09:22 AM ]
[ edited by RB on Nov 5, 2001 09:23 AM ]
posted on November 5, 2001 10:05:09 AM
I noticed two seperate threads in two different areas of their message center where members have challenged some of the defacto Board Members. In one thead Dreamgirl questioned sketers attitude and put her in her place with some backing from other users. In another thread stavescards asked WhosNext "Who appointed you Moderator?".
They may need to tinker with their Message Center TOS ( there is a link at bottom of every Message Center page ) because :
This is a free service for commercial or individual use by the internet community. That isn't really accurate if every user including "bidders only" users are forced to pay a verification fee to view or post to their message boards.
I'm not sure how to handle being quoted. Will be interesting to see the replies. But I am a big boy, and I do stand behind all of my posts.
Been watching here for several days trying to make up my mind if I wanted to verify myself. The uncontrolled bashing that occurred for a couple of days had me about ready to leave, but I'm glad to see that the posts have become more civil and more substance based. I'm glad to see some of your recent posts. You have some good insight and they are more interesting to read than the continual bashing.
I do think it will be interesting to watch the Bidville listing numbers in the next few months. I think what we have seen since the verification announcement is similar to what occurred when the image hosting limitations were instituted. Then the numbers dropped 20,000 to 30,000 listings for about two weeks. After that, they started rising again. Looks like the same trend is happening again. I think it will be several weeks before the auto relist change kicks in. You may see a big drop at that time. However, I believe that this drop may be beneficial because a lot of these listings may be either orphaned listings (sellers left but didn't delete their listings) or items that weren't worth the seller spending time on relisting. It is my belief that a significant listings drop would ease the strain on the resources of the site and would be beneficial in the long run.
In summary, one more Bidville supporter is back, but please don't call me a cheerleader.
posted on November 5, 2001 04:19:35 PM
I've always enjoyed your stavescards post both here and at BV. Very well thought out posts. I really enjoyed your "Who appointed you Moderator?". reply to the Chairman of the Board. He's been off three days formatting his hard drive? I marvel at the users that try to take the reins of power and force their personal thoughts and agendas on the others on a community message board, but that's sort of what the BV Bashers ( sounds kind of like a bowling team? ) do here at AW also.
The BV listings numbers may face pressure from several sources. If one of the new sites takes off because of an ad campaign there may be some kind of an exodus and if one or more of the established sites is successful in their ad campaigns ( I just saw an ePier ad here at AW ) there may be a minor shift of sellers going where the bidders are. The new Yahoo Wharehouse may take a bunch of listings as it is suppose to be heavily promoted by Yahoo.
At the moment, I don't believe that the Yahoo Warehouse will have a significant impact on the Bidville listings. Other than the book storefront, the current categories on the Warehouse do not constitute a large % of the Bidville listings. The real test will be when the Warehouse opens up sportscards and everything else categories. I'm sure that will have some impact, but it will be hard to predict how much. You do still have a number of people that are still mad at Yahoo over listing fees. Also many sellers may choose to list the same items at both the Warehouse and Bidville. If it sells at one, then just cancel the other. A third factor is whether Yahoo will import listings into the Warehouse. Many large listers may not move listings because of the effort required. Those that still want 99 relists because of the time required to relist expired auctions probably wouldn't spend the time to move their listings.
I do think that the Warehouse will be a major player and eventually affect the small sites. Also with the Warehouse, those wanting Yahoo to go to a FVF only may not see it. You can say that the Warehouse actually offers the FVF only option.
posted on November 5, 2001 09:13:18 PM
Hi Stevecards! I'm really glad you decided to verify yourself here. I too enjoy what you have to 'say' very much.
I want to add a hearty slap on the back to everyone in this post because this is super! You guys are bringing up some excellent thoughts here.
I have a rotten cold at the moment so am doing good to digest what I'm reading, let alone come up with something halfway intelligent to reply, LOL.
-----------------------------------
posted on November 5, 2001 09:22:19 PM
Thanks Wallypog,
The respect is mutual. I hope we can get this board back to some intelligent discussion. Looks like that is slowly happening. If successful, we will all benefit from the knowledge gained.
posted on November 5, 2001 11:33:07 PM
Stavescards, In the Yahoo Auctions section here at AW a seller recently posted that Yahoo will import items to their new Wharehouse. Your right about double or even triple listers of common items. Bookconsignment.com does that at BV with its almost 300,000 books and includes a subject to previous sale warning on all of its auction which is in violation of the BV TOS I believe. Actually, that multi-posting may be the norm rather than the exception in the future as sellers try to sell their common items in as many venues as possible.
posted on November 6, 2001 05:59:05 AMActually, that multi-posting may be the norm rather than the exception in the future as sellers try to sell their common items in as many venues as possible
That would make things very tenuous for a buyer. I, for example, could place a bid in good faith for an item on one venue only to have it "pre-sold" on another venue that I don't visit.
Perhaps the collective auction venue world should implement a similar plan for buyers> We should be able to place bids all over the place for an item, then decide which seller to buy it from. Screw the rest of them
posted on November 6, 2001 07:37:38 AM
I found about a dozen little specialty books like "The History of Barbie" and thought I'd try mult-listing to see where folks were looking. When one of them sold on Half, and I had to go to the other 3 places it was listed to delete, I decided right then that is was WAY too much trouble. Of course, unlike some sellers, I wouldn't want to put a potiental customer in the position of actually wanting one of my books only to find out it's unavailable. But that's just me of course trying to provide stellar customer service
I understand your concern about multiple listings. I’m not going to discuss it from an ethical standpoint, but from a practical standpoint. It can be done well, and it also can be done poorly.
In my opinion, an example of multiple listings being done poorly is the book storefront that is operating on Bidville and several other sites. In this case, the listings have the appearance of being a normal auction listing. Then in the “fine print” of the auction, you see a statement saying that the item could already be sold. The expectation of an auction buyer is that the item is always available and is uniquely being sold on that venue and this expectation is broken. In this case, I believe that it would be much better if the storefront was in a separate section, and it was clearly stated in the guidelines for this section that the item is subject to prior sale. Then the buyer enters with the knowledge that this area is much like a catalog store where items may be “out of stock” at times.
Example of “good” multiple listings are when the items are listed in areas such as classified sections, message boards, or other areas that involve negotiation and contact between parties prior to the sale. In these cases, the buyer goes in with the expectation that the item may no longer be available or that a deal must be “negotiated” with the seller prior to a finalized purchase.
The gray area is when the multiple listings involve a mix of two or more different types of sites. To best illustrate, I will give an example of multiple listings that I do on occasion. Beckett.com has a buy/sell/trade area for card listings. These are similar to classifieds as the buyer must contact the seller to conclude a deal. Negotiating of price is allowed. In this case, the buyer does have the expectation that the card may not be available. I have received several e-mails that opened with “If this card is available, I will offer”. Now what I have done on occasion is listed some of my cards on both the Bidville auction and the Beckett buy/sale/trade area. When I received an offer on the card in Beckett, I went and cancelled my Bidville listing (all of these are set up in the 1st Bid Wins format). Also vice versa. With proper management of the listings, I avoid having a listing available on one site that was already sold on the other.
Now the real trick is going to be when you multiple list, for example, on two sites such as the Yahoo Warehouse and Bidville. What you are doing then is gambling that you will not sell the item in both places before you have a chance to cancel the listing on the other site. With low sell-through rates, the odds are that it will not happen. But it will occasionally happen according to Murphy’s law. However I can almost guarantee that many sellers will multiple list due to the low sell-through rates. I would imagine that it already occurs today with sellers having the same item listed on multiple smaller auction sites. I am not advocating this, but just stating an opinion that I believe this will happen.
posted on November 6, 2001 08:22:02 AM
Hi stavecards ...
Great response, but I believe ethics, or the lack of, is the issue that needs to be discussed.
And, as I have stated in the AuctionCow thread, I don't think the words "store" (or storefront) and "auction" should be used in the same sentence. They are two completely different methods of marketing and the more "stores" that show up on these venues, the further away they are getting from the true "auction" concept. If I simply want to pay retail for something, I'll go to a "real" store where I can get "real" customer service.
btw, do you sell non-sports cards? I am desperately looking for a set of "Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within" (the movie) cards
Jesus ... my brain is tired!!!
[ edited by RB on Nov 6, 2001 08:25 AM ]
[ edited by RB on Nov 6, 2001 08:25 AM ]
[ edited by RB on Nov 6, 2001 08:26 AM ]
