posted on October 16, 2001 10:45:11 AM new
Just saw a notice on their announcement page about CC verfication in some form in the very near future.
About time!
posted on October 16, 2001 12:22:11 PM new
Hi JohnnyBravo55 ...
Just out of curiosity, why do you think registering with a credit card will improve "protection" at any auction site?
From what I can see, the only folks who need to provide this information are the sellers - the ones who get the money. The buyers, who have to pay the money (i.e. prove they can!) don't need to have any CC info on file.
In this day and age, anyone can get a credit card, including my 9 year old niece, my deceased mother, and my two cats (I have proven this!!), so I fail to see why this is such a good thing.
Besides, I have heard several horror stories about phantom charges that have shown up on a person's statement, and even though they can usually get them reversed, it's a hasssle.
Finally, if your CC number "somehow" gets out there (ever wonder where all that SPAM email comes from?), you could be in for all kinds of trouble.
posted on October 16, 2001 12:35:55 PM new
I have to agree with RB on this one, I do not believe this will help. I have 4 user id's and enough credit cards to do each one, but do not feel it will help...and G*D, forbid, if Bidville somehow lets this information out or abuses this, there will be a price to pay.
posted on October 16, 2001 12:49:16 PM new
deichen,
Well said. And that is exactly why I keep warning people about gegy.com.
They have already proven they are email harvesters and spammers. Does anyone want to be added to the list as a potential credit card fraud victim?
Who knows what they could do with that kind of information and 25-30 days between CC statements is plenty of time to do major damage before anyone would even know it.
posted on October 16, 2001 01:02:49 PM new
Yes, I'm afraid that many of the sellers on BV are of the opinion that credit card verification will rid the site of multiple i.d.'s and bad bidders. Amusing, since this has not solved the problem for any site to date nor has ANY site been able to find the answer to reliable verification. In fact, it will only cause the loss of valuable bidders which are so sorely needed. Even Pay Pal has bogus sellers and buyers using their service.
Regardless of how many experienced sellers try to inform them of the error of their request, they simply will not listen. The subject has been hashed out for months and anyone who presents the facts has been branded as a nay-sayer looking to do ill will to BV. Not true, therefore many good sellers have left in frustration over the conduct on the boards. Their opinions are obviously not appreciated.
From what I can tell, until auction sites stop the alias i.d.s and make the names and addresses of the bidders and sellers available to all, nothing shall change.
Does anyone feel that the continuing move from auctions to stores is the "out" for this perplexing situation for the auction sites and that it is just a matter of time before we are back to one auction site on the net? That is, if they don't also make the big switch.
posted on October 16, 2001 01:16:36 PM new
LOL And so goes another auction site. I have been a big BidVille cheerleader but the site is slower than slow w/little to no looks and fewer bids. Stuff I used to list on Yahoo that would be gone in a week sits for months. I thought BidVille might have a little potential and chose to stick it out.
However, an elite group seem to think that somehow credit cards are going to get rid of the deadbeats, etc. I have sold for 3+ years on the auction sites and I have yet to see credit cards stop deadbeats. There are other things that could be done to help slow this down. But they are going for the quick fix and I think they are going to find that they just fixed the site.
posted on October 16, 2001 01:31:49 PM new
It really does amaze me how this small group of people asking for this, believes it will help. With hardly no bidders or lookers on the site already, when this is put into place, some will leave. How can this be a good thing? Bad bidders? So what! If you aren't paying any fees, what does it matter ultimately (only a bit of time). I do believe this is another nail in the coffin, the first in my opinion was limiting the image hosting. I continue to be dissappointed and I really have tried to stand behind this site, because they took so many of us ex-yahooers. Oh, well! I am getting tired of this business. Maybe I will just start working on this old house again!
posted on October 16, 2001 01:39:11 PM new
I would say that the majority of the small group have little to no business sense. They don't seem to have respect for other people or their opinions nor do they seem to care about the results of their actions on the auction site as a whole.
They are looking for a fun place to play and have everything their way. The majority of the sellers on the site never visit those HORROR BOARDS and have never had a say in any of this. I really thought Ed had more business sense than this. I loved NoBidding and was hopeful.
I am also pondering the future of this. I enjoy being able to sell but it is just a hobby.
posted on October 16, 2001 02:02:37 PM new
deichen ...
Bad bidders? So what! If you aren't paying any fees, what does it matter
Another excellent point.
What needs to be figured out is how to prevent those who don't send the item after they have received payment. In other words, all of the venues including eBay must collectively stand on their heads and start looking at the issue from a different "point-of-view".
They should be looking for ways to protect their buyers!
Right now, it's painfully obvious to people like me (95% buyer) that all of these venues really don't care about their buyers. Some of them, like eBay, throw out a "buyer protection at this venue" carrot, but the hoops they make a buyer jump through to take advantage of it are too numerous to even bother.
I'm really surprised that some small emerging venue hasn't come along yet with a system to protect it's buyers a little better. After all, without us buyers there would be no need for sellers.
posted on October 16, 2001 02:17:28 PM new
The BV announcement doesn't say who is going to have get CC verified. It may be a very mild bandaid like new sellers only or may run to the other end of the spectrum and be all site users with no grandfathering clauses, or somewhere in between.
It doesn't take much reading of information on the site to see that this is sorely needed as ripoffs and pranks abound all over the site. And I suspect this added feature will make the site more saleable if the CEO decides to get out of the business.
This was a needed change people!
posted on October 16, 2001 03:13:39 PM new
If the PreZ is suggesting this change as a knee jerk reaction to the problem of ripoffs and pranks on His venue, then that is the wrong reason to do it, and, it won't solve either of those problems.
If He is doing this to make the site more saleable, then what does that tell you about how much he cares about his members?
Either way, I don't think Bidville could survive such a change any more that it could survive charging fees. The time to check the ripoffs and pranks passed about 8 months ago. He is too far behind the 8-ball to make a difference now.
I think the "real" reason He is contemplating this change is simply the result of pressure being exerted on Him from the 1/2 dozen or so members who control the site. It seems that everytime this group comes up with an idea, no matter how many other members disagree, the PreZ listens and acts.
On a positive note, this whole BV scenario could be used as a lesson for other new auction venues on what not to do. Carnaby may not have the buyers or sellers (yet), but they seem to have the respect of their members. And, their members seem to respect each other.
Since you brought up this subject, how can any of the site protect the buyer?
The only thing I can think of is an escrow type of thing.
Seller places listing. Winning bidder sends money to the site. Winning bidder notifies site item received and the site sends money on to the seller.
Is there anything else that would protect the buyer? And would sellers be willing to wait for their money?
How would the seller be protected in the event the buyer claims the item isn't as described, but, it was?
This seems like a double edged sword. I don't think any site would be able to protect the interests of both parties without having both the item and money in hand and transferring the goods and the funds to the respective parties.
posted on October 16, 2001 04:46:06 PM new
Toollady,
Good post. I agree that you cannot make the online selling process foolproof. The closest is the scenario that you described, but I would expect the fees to operate such a system to be high because of the extra work by the site. Also it would not eliminate all problems. For example, buyers could fraudently claim they never received a shipment in order to have their payment refunded. There will always be those who find a loophole in any system. People get scammed all the time in face to face transactions. Why should we expect internet sales to be scam-proof?
RB,
For someone who states that they cannot access Bidville, you certainly claim to know a lot of what is happening. While they are certainly several people who post frequently (no different from any other chat or message board), I don't see any concrete evidence that a select few are controlling the site. The person who has been the most "vocal" for CC verification has been posting for 4-5 months on this subject. If he had as much influence as you allege, he's not very effective in getting changes made. I believe a greater influence is the increasing number of people being stiffed on purchases. I expected this would happen without a verification system as more people learned about the site.
I also don't believe that this is the deathblow to Bidville. Yes, some people will leave because of CC verification. Some people always leave any site when there is a change. However this may also attract as many new people because they would perceive that the site is now "safer". What really is the truth remains to be seen.
posted on October 16, 2001 04:47:10 PM new
exexec,
I don't know who you were addressing with the acronym, be it members here, which would be insulting and against the CG's or if you were referring to another message board content, which would also be against the CG's. Either way, I deleted your post for that reason. I will send your post to you in it's entirety, should you wish to edit and re-post.
posted on October 16, 2001 04:55:03 PM new
I agree with JohnnyBravo55. But, only if they are using the CC's along with ID verification with a company like VeriSign to deter repeat user ID's.
"How can the buyer be protected?"
Buyers aren't really protected, BUT it protects the seller against fraudulent bids and gives the seller more of a feeling that the transaction will be a successful one.
ALL users should be treated equally and have the same sense of security among the community.
Maybe they should just charge the deadbeat bidders' CC for the high bid price and then credit the seller's account. That would weed out hap-hazard bidding frenzies.
Buyer's if you have nothing to hide, why are you not willing to put your CC on file?
(besides identity theft)
[ edited by AuctionPulse on Oct 16, 2001 05:00 PM ]
posted on October 16, 2001 05:13:44 PM newI would say that the majority of the small group have little to no business sense. They don't seem to have respect for other people or their opinions nor do they seem to care about the results of their actions on the auction site as a whole.
They are looking for a fun place to play and have everything their way. The majority of the sellers on the site never visit those HORROR BOARDS and have never had a say in any of this. I really thought Ed had more business sense than this. I loved NoBidding and was hopeful.
I am also pondering the future of this. I enjoy being able to sell but it is just a hobby.
I highlighted what forshoppin said because this is how I feel completely!
RB
Yes, about a 1/2 dozen do seem to run the place and it is pathetic. I do not post there because I am trying to run a business (very small business). Some are not professional and others IMO probably have not much sales experience.
posted on October 16, 2001 05:17:42 PM new
Hello Everyone,
Please address the subject of "CC verification at BV" and remember that discussion of what goes on at other sites on their boards should be addressed on their boards, not here at AW.
posted on October 16, 2001 05:31:33 PM new
BidVille has posted the terms! I do not know how to do a link. Sorry.
Newer members will have to pay to get verified. Gee, does this sound like epier? They are limiting relists to 10, and that upsets me, because their aren't enough page views to sell the items. I think this bites! &
posted on October 16, 2001 05:40:22 PM new
Sorry Joyce and all you good folks on AW. I lost my mind for a minute but I'm sure it is here somewhere! Let's try again and I'll leave the offensive remarks out...
BV Prezzzz has just posted the details on the CC verification. Interesting.
I predict that the only effect will be the loss of some good people who don't want to trust BV with their CC information. As I said some time ago..."the inmates, etc.etc.etc."
posted on October 16, 2001 05:49:28 PM new
You know what really bugs me? There are already those who will be leaving. The promise of free is a big LIE. What is even more hilarious that those who wanted it the most (so the bidders would have to be verified by CC) it isn't going to be that way. It is mostly for the sellers and what was gained? NOTHING
OT:
I hate BUGS I can not wait until the first really hard freeze comes along and we are bug free for the winter!
deichen
[ edited by deichen on Oct 16, 2001 05:51 PM ]
OOPS, edited again because I can't stand poor spelling!
[ edited by deichen on Oct 16, 2001 05:52 PM ]
posted on October 16, 2001 05:55:37 PM new
toollady ... "how can any of the site protect the buyer?"
I wish I knew! If I had the answer to this one, I'd start my own auction site. But, I can tell you with 100% confidence that requiring CC verification is not the answer, and in Bidville's case, it could very well have a bad result by forcing some sellers to leave.
stavecards ... "For someone who states that they cannot access Bidville, you certainly claim to know a lot of what is happening."
I haven't visited the Bidville mesasge boards for months. If what I am stating is correct, then it simply proves that nothing has changed over there
I was there a long time before you were and I can almost guarantee you that the same people who were running the show then are the same people who are running it now. I don't want to name some of the ID's I recall (due to AW Guidelines), but I'm sure if you go back and read the posts from July (or so, assuming they are still there), you will see these posts. At that time, the "group of 6" was pushing for elimination of all new members signing in with a Hotmail or Yahoo type free email account. I believe that eventually happened. It hasn't happened on any other venue, by the way.
When the PreZ and I had our argument over the porn pop-ups and He came up with the New Laws about suspensions (which, by the way, he forgot to follow up with any details on appeals, suspension times, etc.!!), the "group of 6" was just starting to push for CC verification. I seem to recall that most of the others, including me, were making arguments against it.
Maybe those others have been banished too?
Like I tried to suggest in an earlier post, I really don't want to get backed into a corner where I have to "bash" Bidville to come out. I'd rather discuss ways that all auction sites can improve.
posted on October 16, 2001 06:01:59 PM new
You know what is really stupid about the paying for verification every few months? My credit card is good until the year 2003! Aren't all good for at least a year? Is this another way for bidville to make money? YES! [I am screaming]
I also want to add, that I would never presume another's situation. Yes, I do have some credit cards but I know many who do not. That is their right and business, it does not make them bad people. Why would anyone buy from sellers who put down people with bad credit or because they have no CC? I certainly would not purchase from them.
posted on October 16, 2001 06:06:22 PM new
deichen ... On the plus side, if this does work it may inject some cash into His site.
I notice that the CC supporters are still hung up on protecting the sellers. And, heaven forbid ANY SITE being given authorization to automatically debit a member's card if s/he didn't pay a seller.
[ edited by RB on Oct 16, 2001 06:08 PM ]
posted on October 16, 2001 06:11:55 PM new
I guess the PREZ does not care to work out the BUGS in his system. Gee, I am getting tired of this auction business! I simply won't pay, when the traffic isn't there.
posted on October 16, 2001 06:14:34 PM new
I cant help but laugh! Some of the same people that said they were leaving bidville because they needed verification are now saying it is a bad thing for the site lol. Also some people that left Bidville and went to other sites like Carnaby said they got a credit card because they felt Carnaby and the other sites made it safer for them to buy and sell with verification in place unlike Bidville. Lets face it some people on this board hate Bidville so much they refuse to say good move Bidvilles give me a brake lol.
I am for verification I believe the trolls will not like to give out their credit card just to come on the site and cause problems I also believe it will help keep children from signing up and bidding so that will help hold down some dead beat bidders. I seen someone say hey if someone dont pay you just relist you dont loss anything not true if you payed for front page you loss what it costed you to list on the front page "So it does cost" almost all sites have verification so what is wrong with Bidville putting it in place. Carnaby has it ebay has it yahoo has it but you dont complain about them you still list in Carnaby and they are getting ready to start listing fees from what I have heard. Let Bidville do the CC verification and it is bad I believe some people are conserned about what they are going to do about their 15 different user names they bragged about having and may be a little worried about their fight IDs going by by. All the above is just my opinion nothing more nothing less.
P.S. I must admit I am not happy about the monthly charge for verification ebay dont even do that but money is what makes the world and auction sites go round. Hope we see some advertising ED.
posted on October 16, 2001 06:22:07 PM new
Hi telwil ... "I believe some people are conserned about what they are going to do about their 15 different user names they bragged about having and may be a little worried about their fight IDs going by by."
posted on October 16, 2001 06:26:21 PM new
Telwil,
First of all when we verify on the other sites Ebay & Yahoo, we DO NOT have to pay for it! Another fact is that the bidders do not have to verify, only the sellers, so how does that make any sense anyway? Didn't the ones who most strongly wanted this, want this for the bad bidders?
LOL, Bidville work out the BUGS before it is too late! I have CC's that is not the problem. The problem is the lying about the free and then saying oh by the way, you have to pay to sell here. BULL****!
posted on October 16, 2001 06:30:02 PM new
RB,
I hope you aren't referring to me! I have more than enough CC's to place on each of my 4 id's. WHOOPEE, I am not going to pay someone to verify my CC, it is bad enough having to give out that information. Does anyone remember what happened to Wallypog? She had her CC numbers stolen on the internet. Many charges that were not hers.
posted on October 16, 2001 06:44:21 PM new
RB - Yes!
deichen Good to see you. Like I said in my P.S. I am not happy about the charge but I was not happy about the charge to host images also the other members told me to shutup about that and sat down so I did. I remember the promise no listing fees or hiden fees well he has kept the no listing fees promise up to today and trashed the hiden fees promise I am not happy about it but the majority stood behind him on it and I always go with the majority. I say if he dont do some real advertiseing and bring in some buyers the site will find its self in alot of trouble if I am going to pay to run my item I will list it in ebay they do advertise and have buyers I have been listing about 15 items a week and about 11 of them sell the first time around. I will stay with Bidville till after Jan but if they dont advertise and bring in some buyer with some of this new money "I mean real advertise" I will leave and put my slow moveing items on Auctionsaloon and do most of my selling back in ebay. I no ED needs the money but so do I and if he gets money from me and dont try and get buyers in so I can make some money then I dont need his site.
[ edited by telwil on Oct 16, 2001 06:53 PM ]
& 