posted on September 13, 2000 03:35:21 PM
I honestly don't know what to tell you guys... sure I signed up for PayPal when it started, and knowing nothing is free.
I guess, if that is how you feel, that you've been lied to etc, then quit.....
honestly not saying that to be sh*tty, but I don't see any other moves here....or
try a merchant account... more money and hassle.
posted on September 13, 2000 03:44:22 PM
Hmmmmmm, let's see....
We've got a constantly changing "history" of events, a steadfast inability to answer the actual questions being asked... All of this is starting to seem VERY familiar to me for some reason....
Hey, Damon -- you wouldn't be trying to sell a Van Gough by any chance, would you? Just curious....
Barry
---
The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
posted on September 13, 2000 04:04:36 PMI can't understand why everyone is in an uproar about a Business account, btw no one is forcing you to upgrade to.
Ah, but THEY ARE forcing us to upgrade.
In June we were told "PayPal will not force anyone to upgrade."
In September we are told "You must upgrade if you are a business, and businesses are anyone who has ever sold anything on-line."
I disagree with PayPal over several things:
The fact that I am a business. I am not a business, and nobody should tell me otherwise... Well, maybe the IRS can, but they aren't -- they call me a hobbyist.
The fact that PayPal said in June "PayPal will not force anyone to upgrade." Yet now they are forcing all sellers, hobbyists, full-timers, part-timers, one-timers, to upgrade to Business/Premier account.
Ever since PayPal's inception, I expected fees... I have no problem with paying fees if they are reasonable. Unfortunately, the way PayPal has changed policies and lied to customers has made me re-think the entire thing.
PayPal, why not put a fee on all transactions? Such as: FREE for sending up to $10, 25 cents between $10 and $50, 50 cents between $50 and $100, and so on....
Then if someone wants the additional services of the Business/Premier account, they can pay a percentage fee.
"My possessions are causing me suspicion." - Neil Finn
posted on September 13, 2000 04:56:47 PM
I want to respond to the accusation that PayPal somehow lied about its policy. This is untrue and unfair.
The login reminder page restates a policy that has been in place for months. The facts:
1. Below, in full, is the email that we sent to users in July. The relevant portion clearly states that "businesses using PayPal are required by our terms of use to create a Business Account."
2. A clear "Rules" box on our "Personal vs. Premier/Business Account" page (which highlights the differences between account types) states the requirement that businesses must sign up for a business account. This box has been on our site since June.
3. Our terms of use have also stated for weeks that if you are using PayPal to conduct "e-commerce on a regular basis," you need to sign up for, or upgrade to, a Premier or Business account.
We have always said that PayPal is free for personal use. That remains true today. We have also always said that business use requires a Premier or Business account.
I realize that there are a number of occasional sellers who want clarification on what constitutes business use. Obviously, there is a big difference between the occasional seller who sells one beanie babie a month, and a seller who sells dozens of items per month. Today's reminder was only directed at sellers who conduct e-commerce on a regular basis.
It is not possible for PayPal to subsidize these businesses and continue to provide this service for all.
From: PayPal News [[email protected]]
Date: Saturday, July 8, 2000
Subject: Important news about your PayPal account
Dear [FIRSTNAME],
Last month we wrote to tell you about the launch of
PayPal’s new Premier and Business Accounts. These
accounts included premium features such as 24/7 customer
service support and an automatic daily sweep of funds into
your bank account. And we also promised you that many
more premium tools were still to come. Now, we at X.com are
pleased to deliver PAYPAL'S LATEST SET OF FEATURES for
Premier and Business users:
· Web Accept: accept payments directly on your website
· Auction Tools: new ways to manage your online auctions
with ease
· Batch Pay: send affiliate payments to thousands of
people at once
· Downloadable Transaction Log
· Unlimited Credit Card Payments
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
ACCEPT MONEY ON YOUR HOMEPAGE
Our new Web Accept tool lets you accept payments directly
on your website. By posting Web Accept buttons on your
web pages, BUYERS CAN PAY YOU FOR PURCHASES WITH PAYPAL
INSTANTLY -- without leaving your site. Accepting
payments online has never been easier! (Pricing for this
feature is only a modest 1.9% on payments received, with
no flat fee.) Learn more about Web Accept by going to
our website:
https://secure.paypal.x.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/web/index-outside
Also, our Business Account users now will have NO LIMIT ON
CREDIT CARD FUNDS RECEIVED. Buyers who have reached their
PayPal $2,000 credit card spending limit can still charge
their card when sending a payment to Premier and
Business users.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
AUCTION MANAGEMENT TOOLS
Collect auction payments quickly and easily with INSTANT
PURCHASE FOR AUCTIONS. This feature lets buyers pay you
simply by clicking on a logo in your auction listing; this
generates a pop-up form where buyers can enter their PayPal
username and password to pay you without even having to
login to our website. Also new, our AUTOMATED PAYMENT
REQUEST creates online invoices that you can distribute to
your winning bidders. It's fast -- you can send out 100
invoices in just 10 minutes! Visit our website to learn
more about our new auction tools for Premier and Business
Account users: http://www.paypal.x.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/auc/auction-business-tools-outside
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
SEND PAYMENTS THROUGH BATCH PAY
Now pay hundreds -- even thousands -- of people all at
once with X.com’s new Batch Pay tool. If you run an
AFFILIATE PROGRAM, A COUPON/REBATE PROMOTION, OR A
"PAY-TO-SURF" COMPANY, you no longer have to depend on
expensive and slow check runs to pay your customers --
Batch Pay can do it for you. (Batch payment transactions
cost the lesser of 2% or $0.25 per payment, far below
the cost of printing and mailing a check.) For more
information on X.com's Batch Pay, go to:
http://www.paypal.x.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/batch-outside.
And for those of you who participate in a "pay-to-surf"
or affiliate program, be sure to tell your administrator
you'd like to BE PAID WITH PAYPAL!
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
PREMIUM FUNCTIONALITY
In addition to all the features available on PayPal
personal accounts, Premier and Business users can take
advantage of these other special features and services:
· A DOWNLOADABLE TRANSACTION HISTORY available in
Quicken, QuickBooks, and comma-delimited text formats.
· Automatic sweep of your PayPal balance into your bank
account at the end of each day. (This feature is optional
and carries a modest 0.6% fee.)
· A 24-hour-a-day, 7-days-a-week exclusive customer service
hotline.
· Frequent special promotions, such as last month’s "Free
Listing Week."
· Automatic eligibility for X.com's AFFILIATE PROGRAM.
· Many Business Account users will be eligible to be
featured in our upcoming SHOPPING TAB, where over 2.5
million PayPal users will be able to make instant, online
purchases directly from you.
For more information on all the features vailable to Business
and Premier users, please visit our site:
https://secure.paypal.x.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/personal_vs_business-outside
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
It’s fast and simple to upgrade your personal account in
order to take advantage of these premium features. Please keep
in mind that businesses using PayPal are required by our terms
of use to create a Business Account. To upgrade, just login to
your PayPal account and click on the "Upgrade Now" button. The
upgrade process only takes a couple of minutes, and you’ll be
able to use our new payment tools immediately.
We appreciate your choice to use X.com’s PayPal service to send
and receive money, and thanks for helping to make PayPal the #1
payment service on the Web!
posted on September 13, 2000 05:48:11 PM
Oh, THERE it is, buried waaaaaaay down at the very bottom of a lengthy e-mail that few people would ever bother reading in full:
"Please keep in mind that businesses using PayPal are required by our terms of use to create a Business Account."
OK, so maybe PayPal DIDN'T lie after all. Well, except for the fact that they originally said that their services would be "free forever" and then changed their "terms of service" to require anybody who sells anything to sign up for a NEWLY CREATED fee-based business account. But that's not really a lie, right? More of a broken promise, I guess....
Unfortunately, Damon, you most certainly DID lie. After that e-mail was sent out you were asked point blank whether any users would be forced to sign up for a business account and you said "no". And that directly contradicts PayPal's own [albeit unobtrusively buried where nobody would notice] terms.
You had a chance back in July to come clean and say yes, people who sell on eBay and use Paypal will be required to upgrade to a business account and pay the associated fees. Instead, however, you chose to lie.
My only question now is what, exactly, is your relation to PayPal, and is there really a difference between you telling us a lie and "PayPal" lying to us?
Barry
---
The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
posted on September 13, 2000 06:27:12 PM
Yay maddienicks! You go girl!
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I will just remove the paypal logo, and go back to checks and money orders. "Always free". Um hm. Yeah. Sure. And I have some ocean front property for sale in Arizona, too.
posted on September 13, 2000 07:07:45 PM
If PayPalDamon gets to place the same message to all the boards, I figured I could do the same.
For those who plan on filing consumer complaints here is the information. You are more than welcome to post this to other threads or boards. PayPal is regulated by the Federal Trade Commission. PayPal is probably regulated by the California Department of Financial Institutions at the state level. And PayPal may be regulated by the Federal Reserve if it is a financial holding company. Complaints are taken seriously both at the state and federal levels. Complaints are also re-reviewed when a company is seeking regulatory approval such as for a new business acquisition or the chartering of a new bank, etc.
Federal Trade Commission
Consumer Response Center
600 Pennsylvania Ave NW
Washington DC 20580
or
1-877-FTC-HELP
or
https://www.ftc.gov/ftc/compaint.htm
AND
Department of Financial Institutions Consumer Information Desk
801 K Street, Suite 2124
Sacramento, CA 95814
1-800-622-0620 or (916) 323-0189
[email protected]
AND
Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System
Division of Consumer and Community Affairs
20th and C Streets NW, Stop 801
Washington DC 20551
which will most likely forward the compaint to the San Francisco Federal Reserve since PayPal is based in California so e-mail and phone are
[email protected]
(415) 974-2228
posted on September 13, 2000 07:12:57 PM
I like Magazineguy's solution. The grandfather clause has long been used in situations where changing the rules midstream was deemed unfair. I understand if the initial "always free" business model proved unviable. Why not admit it, accomodate the existing users, and apply the new terms of use to new members? Those who took the leap (chance) and helped build the business shouldn't be penalized for taking the terms on face value and in good faith.
If the original business model was to hook the unsuspecting, than I can see why grandfathering might not appeal.
I realize that the business must make money somehow. Thats why I always left an accumulation of funds in my account until needed so Paypal could leverage the float. Granted it wasn't any great sum, but it could have been someday.
The breach of trust is casting suspicion on earlier changes and explanations. Was the whole verification process just a way to tie us all to the new terms? How much does it cost to indemnify every user for $5,000? As an honest seller, I'd give that up in a heartbeat for free usage.
posted on September 13, 2000 10:47:58 PM
Oh, Damon, give it up. You lied. Paypal lies. Everybody sees and knows it. Your noses are getting longer with every post.
posted on September 13, 2000 10:57:18 PM
Yes, Barry nailed it....
Damon lied. There's no way you can contradict Barry's accusation, Damon, because he used your own postings as evidence.
Typical corporation... They just make things up to serve their own needs. Everyone else be damned. And when they're called on it, they backpedal. Look at how long it took Firestone to take action.
Anyway, a lie is a lie is a lie, and there's nothing PayPal or PayPalDamon can post here on AuctionWatch that is going to reverse the lie already told.
I do believe an apology is now in order to all PayPal customers.
Has this organization learned nothing from past business experiences?? Is there not an MBA among you who hasn't done the case studies???
"My possessions are causing me suspicion." - Neil Finn
posted on September 13, 2000 11:05:09 PM
Let's see. Tylenol? or Exxon Valdez. Tylenol? Valdez. Gee, tough call.
PayPal: follow the Tylenol crisis management model. Get your CEO out from behind his desk. Tell the truth, even if it's not pretty. Put your customers first, even if it costs you short term. Without customer confidence, you're nothing. ESPECIALLY in a non-FDIC insured business where you are holding folks' money.
posted on September 14, 2000 06:56:13 AMI want to respond to the accusation that PayPal somehow lied about its policy. This is untrue and unfair.
Hmmmmm... interesting that you should choose the words "untrue" and "unfair". What's that old saying about the best defense being a good offense?
1. Below, in full, is the email that we sent to users in July. The relevant portion clearly states that "businesses using PayPal are required by our terms of use to create a Business Account."
First of all, the "relevant portion" is BURIED waaaaaaay at the very bottom of a long promotional e-mail that MOST users probably never read in full. If it were important, you should have said up front "We have changed our terms to require businesses to sign up for our new business account. We realize this is a major change, but here are a list of all the wonderful things that business accounts will be entitled to...." But, noooooooooo. Instead, you send out a promotional e-mail which goes on for page after page describing the new services, and then at the VERY end you casually mention "oh, by the way, everyone who is a business is required to sign up for this new service".
Second, the one thing the e-mail FAILED to mention is what, exactly, PayPay considers to be a "business". That's a crucially important bit of information, and
the e-mail doesn't expound on that matter. But the notice which was posted on your login reminder page DOES go into details, and therefore it is incorrect to say that this notice was simply "repeating" what was in that earlier e-mail.
Third, when people actually ASKED whether this would apply to them, you chose NOT to give a straightforward and honest answer [which would have been along the lines of "yes, we DO consider you to be a business, and yes, you ARE required to upgrade to a business account. We won't "force" anyone to sign up, but you will be in violation of our terms if you don't and we are relying on your honesty"]. Instead, you simply kept repeating "no, we won't force anyone to upgrade to a business account". No mention of what constitutes a business, no mention of being "required" to upgrade, no mention of an "honesty" system. Call it a lie or call it a deliberate avoidance of the truth. Either way, your hands are NOT clean, Damon.
2. A clear "Rules" box on our "Personal vs. Premier/Business Account" page (which highlights the differences between account types) states the requirement that businesses must sign up for a business account. This box has been on our site since June.
Yes, but all it says is "In order to reserve Personal Accounts for individual use only, we require all businesses to sign up for a Business Account. Individuals may sign up for either a Personal or Premier Account." It DOESN'T say what constitutes a "business". Once again, the announcement on your login reminder page adds a lot of infomration which wasn't part of the original change in terms, so it's just a flat out lie to say that it simply "restates a policy that has been in place for months."
Besides, this information is only found on the part of your site dealing with business accounts in the first place. In other words, the only people likely to read the requirement that they had to sign up for a business account are the ones who had already CHOSEN to do so. When you sign up for a "personal" account there is no notice saying that this is only for people who are NOT businesses.
3. Our terms of use have also stated for weeks that if you are using PayPal to conduct "e-commerce on a regular basis," you need to sign up for, or upgrade to, a Premier or Business account.
Oooooh... "for weeks", eh? What happened to your statement that the "login reminder page restates a policy that has been in place for months"?
Also, this directly contradicts the information on your login reminder page which ACTUALLY states "Auction sellers — both individuals who make it a full time job and those who sell on a recurring, part-time basis — are also engaging in business use". There's a BIG difference between "e-commerce on a regular basis" and selling "on a recurring, part-time basis". So, once again, it is just plain FALSE that the "login reminder page restates a policy that has been in place for months".
We have always said that PayPal is free for personal use.
No, you didn't. What you ACTUALLY said from the beginning was that PayPal was FREE and would ALWAYS be free. There was NEVER a mention of "personal use" at the onset. In fact, PayPal's services were targeted specifically at auction sellers who -- by your own definition -- were NOT engaged in "personal use". It was only much LATER [after everybody had signed up] that you CHANGED your terms to make a distinction between "personal" and "business" use.
Changing terms is bad enough, but that's life. LYING about it afterwards, however, is inexcusable.
That remains true today. We have also always said that business use requires a Premier or Business account.
Again, where does this "always" come from? THERE WERE NO PERSONAL OR BUSINESS ACCOUNTS WHEN PAYPAL FIRST SOLICITED BUSINESS FROM SELLERS!
Weeks, months, forever. I guess it's all just the same to you, eh?
I realize that there are a number of occasional sellers who want clarification on what constitutes business use. Obviously, there is a big difference between the occasional seller who sells one beanie babie a month, and a seller who sells dozens of items per month. Today's reminder was only directed at sellers who conduct e-commerce on a regular basis.
No, it was specifically directed at "Auction sellers — both individuals who make it a full time job and those who sell on a recurring, part-time basis."
It is not possible for PayPal to subsidize these businesses and continue to provide this service for all.
Nobody is disputing that, Damon. But you could have simply SAID that up front instead of giving us all the runaround and lying to us now.
Barry
---
The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
[ edited by godzillatemple on Sep 14, 2000 07:00 AM ]
posted on September 14, 2000 07:12:29 AM
Damon:
"These terms have been in effect since X.com began offering Business and Premier accounts in June."
So the letter of JUNE 13th, which FLATLY stated that no one would be forced to upgrade, and ofered AUCTION TOOLS that were clearly meant for SELLERS (what use is logo insertion to a buyer) was ... ????
A. A blatant lie to keep the masses fron jumping ship before your IPO discussions
B. An act of monumental STUPIDITY on the part of the marketing team, and they have all been fired
C. Just our typical doublespeak
D. No longer operative.
E. All of the above.
The CURRENT links on your site, offering lots of "auction tools" useful only to sellers, that are NOT linked to a business account, clearly indicates you are aware of and HELPING sellers use personal accuonts on auctions are ....
A. A blatant lie to keep the masses fron jumping ship before your IPO discussions
B. An act of monumental STUPIDITY on the part of the web design team. They have all been fired and the Auction services will be restricted to business accounts IMMEDIATELY.
C. Just our typical doublespeak
D. No longer operative.
E. All of the above.
And the posts by PayPal reps from JUNE, MADE ON A MESSAGE BOARD DEDICATED TO AUCTION SELLING, that no one will be forced to upgrade were ....
A. A blatant lie to keep the masses fron jumping ship before your IPO discussions
B. An act of monumental STUPIDITY on the part of the staff members, and they have all been fired
C. Just our typical doublespeak
D. No longer operative.
E. All of the above.
posted on September 14, 2000 09:45:48 AM
I am going to say it one more time. Please file a complaint to the Federal Trade Commission, California Department of Financial Institutions, and Federal Reserve. If you are going to do one, just file with the Federal Trade Commission. It's easy, the burden will be on PayPal not you. Please see my previous post for the contact information and pass it along to others.
I was an examiner for the federal government including consumer compliance and credit cards exams. I have examined Citibank, Bank One, Wells Fargo, etc. If any of them used these deceptive practices the government would investigate. There are laws regarding referal fees, disclosures, advertising, etc. That is our recourse and we should all use it.
posted on September 14, 2000 10:50:30 AM
Damon
There is no need to make assumptions about your integrity as an individual or as a company employee, because you have shown that you have none. No assumptions needed.
posted on September 14, 2000 11:18:10 AM
Um Barry, Nice post, but I think you forgot this little statement from the other side of their collective mouths....
May, 2000 email from PayPal
"And, best of all, PayPal is a FREE SERVICE for both buyers and sellers alike!"
and...
posted on June 13, 2000 09:34:19 AM
[i]"Pricing on a Premier/Business Account is only 1.9% on payments received, with NO FLAT FEE. That's less than half of what you'd
pay with other payment services. "[/i]
Those seem pretty straight forward to me. Auction sellers and buyers are not necessarily businesses and there is NO FLAT FEE. Hmmm...
Now to my big beef...
They wish to charge on the following which are NOT Charge Card RELATED!
Bank Account payments 1.9% PayPal Balance payments 1.9%
So, a person sends a payment from their charge card to seller A who pays .25 plus 1.9%.
Seller A then purchases something from Seller B from their PayPal balance that they just paid .25 plus 1.9% on from their buyer above
Seller B has to pay another 1.9% on the money that PayPal just received .25 plus 1.9% on...
Seller B sees something and buys something from Seller C.
Seller C now has to pay 1.9% on the money that Seller B just paid 1.9% on and before that, Seller A paid .25 plus 1.9% on...
And on and on. And each of these people when they do a bank account balance transfer have to pay ANOTHER 1.9% for that!
EXACTLY how many times does PayPal propose to get paid on the SAME money? HOW MANY TIMES IS ENOUGH PAYPAL?
This is the bottom line for me. I would have upgraded to a business account at 1.9% on CHARGE CARD TRANSACTIONS if they included INTERNATIONAL transactions as THAT would be a value added service for me.
I WILL NOT NOT NOTPay and Pay and Pay on money in the system! Nope nope NOPE! And flat fees are for the birds!
Besides, According to their own words,
May, 2000 email from PayPal
"And, best of all, PayPal is a FREE SERVICE for both buyers and sellers alike!" and the basic PayPal service for buyers and sellers is ALL THEY PRESENTLY OFFER THAT IS OF INTEREST TO ME
Got that PAYpal?
UBB
[ edited by labbie1 on Sep 14, 2000 11:21 AM ]
posted on September 14, 2000 11:21:16 AMtopprospects
This link doesn't work:
https://www.ftc.gov/ftc/compaint.htm
Perhaps you could start a new thread, with imbedded correct links to the three sites you mention, and some help on how to fill out the complaint. What is the exact name PayPal does business under? Is it PayPal.com or X.com or what?
Any other info that would make it easier for me and others to file the complaints.
To imbed a link, just put a {url}, except "unshifted" brackets, before the url, and {/url} after it.
posted on September 14, 2000 11:43:07 AM
I was talked into joining PayPal by several of my buyers. This was in June. I looked long and hard at the "Terms Of Use" statement that was published on the PayPal site at that time. (I still have a copy) No mention of fees was made in that statement. "Always Free" was the catch phrase that was used to hook customers.
PayPal makes money off it's members by holding on to their funds for at least 24 hours. (If you ask for a check, they might hold your money for a week or more!) The investment power generated by the dollars in their account at any one time should more than compensate them for the fees that Visa or MC charges them for a transaction.
There was a risk that we all took when we joined PayPal. They are not a bank. Our funds were not FDIC insured. If they went belly up,we would be out of luck. So it was a trade off.. they could invest our money and keep the profits, if we took the risk that they would stay in business long enough for us to get our money.
Now, it seems that greed has set in. PayPal has determined that anyone who sells on a "recurring part-time" basis is, in their eyes, a "business". That was not mentioned as a concern when I joined. Any reasonable person would assume that from the beginning, most of PayPal's users were at the very least, 'recurring part-time' sellers.
This is bait and switch cloaked under a cover of 'poor us..., help us pay our Visa bill'. It is a classic example of how greed drives business and clouds better judgement. If this policy is 'enforced' with current members, PayPal will suffer. This is as it should be. You can't expect to make a choice and have no consequences. The consequences of greed are often disasterous for business. The idea presented by several other posters in this thread regarding 'Grandfathering' is a good one. If PayPal wants to continue to opperate with the good faith of those of us who helped make them what they are today, they will take this suggestion to heart. If they choose to continue on their present course, they would be well advised to cover their ears, because the sound of people closing their accounts will be deafining.
I am not a business. I have no need for 'business' services. I am a recurring part-time seller. I will continue to hold my PayPal account as a personal one until this matter is resolved. I will no longer suggest to my new buyers that they try the PayPal service and I will no longer add PayPal logos to my new auctions. (See, the consequences are starting already) The ball is in their court. I suggest they reconsider their position and listen to the collective voice of their current membership before some other service comes along and snatches them away.
posted on September 14, 2000 12:14:23 PMjcwalk1 Well said!
And I hope that they have a LOT of capital behind them because my friends and I have all pulled our money out right down to zero balance. This is the first time since PayPal started that I have had a zero balance and it will continue that way.
I like you, have pulle the logos and will no longer be advertising their services. If they grandfather us in and drop the flat fee on business accounts, I might and that is a BIG MIGHT, reconsider.
As for me and my business--I am going to Yahoo PayDirect unless I have a customer who pleads and begs and insists on using PayPal even after I explain my position to them.
In NO WAY, however, will I accept having to "upgrade" to a business account. I am a recurring part time seller and frankly, I am NOT a business.
And PayPal said that their service is free for both buyers AND SELLERS and I intend to hold them to that promise!
posted on September 14, 2000 01:46:25 PM
I am sorry but I can't stand watching PayPal do the "use lots of words but say nothing useful" dance. God. I can not figure out how the rep can continue to say that PP didn't lie without laughing. It is interesting the ONLY email Damon keeps posting on is the one from June (or July). Nothing about all the other emails,TOS from PP or even his past posts about "Always Safe, Always Free" . Like it never happened. I am amazed at the lack of class by PP and I am insulted that they think we are that stupid to just give up and believe them.
Actually the PP offices are right up the street from my office here. Maybe I should drop by to cancel my account. I will never, ever use PP again...unless they grandfather us in and even then I will have to think about it real hard. I don't trust anything about PP now. NOTHING.
[ edited by carinibaby on Sep 14, 2000 01:58 PM ]
posted on September 14, 2000 02:19:39 PM
When was the last time anyone heard from PAYPALDAMON? Wait... don't tell me.... he recognized the TITANIC issues he is expected to juggle and went frantically searching for a lifeboat. Anyone want to bet that the "important people" at PayPal have already grabbed them up????
posted on September 14, 2000 02:28:04 PM
Thought I'd repost my previous message since alot of people have said they were not aware of this.
Here's one more way Pay Pal is getting you guys and I'll bet alot of you don't even know it...
When you log onto your Pay Pal accounts, click on the REFERRALS tab. Scroll to the bottom to the View your REFERRAL LOG link.
I have three referrals in my log that say PENDING, the oldest one is from August 23rd. I never got the $5.00 for these, never even got an email saying I was entitled to (pending) bonuses.
From the FAQs and Refer-a-Friend Terms of Agreement:
"When do I receive my $5 bonus?
You will receive each $5 Referral bonus after your friend COMPLETES VERIFICATION of their account. Receiving bonus rewards depends on HOW QUICKLY your friend registers for a PayPal account and completes the BONUS REQUIREMENTS"
I looked into this further and found out that the person signing up with you as a referral must now VERIFY A BANK ACCOUNT before you'll ever see your "pending" 5 bucks. Buyers have no need to give Pay Pal their bank account numbers. Most are using their credit cards to pay for auctions and note:
"Bonus Period. Confinity reserves the right to discontinue the Bonus for any reason, at any time and for any duration at its sole discretion, and without notice."
I doubt we'll ever see those promised bonuses, except in our PENDING logs!
posted on September 14, 2000 03:31:14 PM
Just a thought for everyone actually closing their accounts right now. On the off chance that we will be grandfathered in (or other concessions made including admissions & apologies), I am leaving my account open (although empty and idle) for now.
posted on September 14, 2000 03:50:05 PM
I have 2 pending...
hopefulli Good point.
It would seem that PAYpal has a twofold need for us.
1) the customer base so they can say "we have xxxxx customers" which makes them more attractive to everyone from advertisers to investors
and...
2) our money for the float.
We can certainly deny them the money part and sit back and wait to see what their investors and advertisers have to say about the amount of monetary resources and...
if that causes them to rethink this debacle, then we will have the opportunity to use our accounts if and this is a BIG if, we still want to give them another chance.
Customers that were opt-in were advised of the referral change and the requirements. This announcement was also on the web site. I am getting a copy of the email to post.
posted on September 14, 2000 05:27:33 PM
This, like most of the other threads, seem to be devolving into a miasma of rhetoric by the Great and Powerful PaypalDamon, who has yet to really answer a question with a cognitive, non-pre-typed answer.
Please make no assumptions about my integrity as an individual or as a company employee.
As someone has already mentioned, you can't make assumptions on something that doesn't seem to exist. One must have something to "assume" upon before an assumption can be completed. You might be the nicest fellow on the planet PPD...saving puppies on the side maybe. But I do not care what job you have in that company...if you do not have the personal integrity to break out from the pattern of deceit and mistruth your company is perpetuating in an attempt to save the business model, then you have no personal integrity as far as I'm concerned.
Y'know, wouldn't it be really great if, after all this, we find out The Great and Powerful PPD isn't even affiliated with the company? Please note that I am not making an accusation...simply noting an event that would be pretty darn interesting. It would explain a lot of the missing answers...a person has got to do a lot of research to come up with that kind of material.
I guess really I'm one of the lucky ones. Right before this brouhaha started, I had just decided to take a bit of a sabbatical from the online auction arena so that I can get some house repairs done. I have no auctions to alter to get that now-loathsome paypal banner out. Hopefully by the time the holiday season rolls around, Paypal will either have reversed themselves and grandfathered the people who made them who they are into the system, or will have gone belly up. I'm signing up for some alternative cc services on the net in either case.
So I figure I'll check-in once a day to see if there are any real answers from PPD. Can someone email me if a real question is ever answered? Or if anything remotely interesting happens? I'm real busy right now putting in Pepsistuff caps...gotta get that coupon for my King Kong Vs. Godzilla DVD at samgoody!
Thought something along that line myself, except I figured he was probably providing PR advice to OAS.