posted on August 11, 2004 06:02:26 PM new
That's a good example, Linda. It is in our best interests to see that all growing children are provided access to good nutrition. I don't believe it should be need based, but available on an emergency or on-going request basis to all care providers for children. And, bravo to Twig for putting this program to good use.
posted on August 11, 2004 06:35:31 PM new
I have had a different experience than some here. I have worked at an HMO in CA where WIC mother's came in to pick up their weekly supplies. One baby in arm their arm...two or three, sometimes more children tagging alone.
I strongly feel if you can't support one child you shouldn't be having more until you can. We got along just fine before all these government programs were put in place.
The same goes with the school breakfasts and lunches. Most all the parents are getting food stamps....we don't need another duplication of taking aways parents responsibilities to feed their own children.
It's like the government is becoming the children's nanny - and the family's provider for everything. Taking care of supplying their needs from birth right on through retirement.
posted on August 11, 2004 08:33:27 PM new
Here's what I have to say about twelve's comments. Someday, he will be an old crippled and helpless man. He will not be able to care for himself and need somebody to help him. If he can't afford a person to come in and help him in his daily needs, then he will very likely be forced into a nursing home.
In the nursing home, he will be housed, institutionalized if you will until he dies. The same institutional type of environment that he proclaims as a great idea for children of poor parents. He will experience the same minimal care that a child in a orphanage does. This of course will be provided by people who are making just about a dollar an hour over minimum wage, maybe. They may hate their job and the duties associated with it. Just think what he will go though when he encounters his new home.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we! They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.” ~ George W. Bush, 8/5/04
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we! They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.” ~ George W. Bush, 8/5/04
posted on August 11, 2004 11:45:47 PM new
I can understand Linda not wanting to help innocent children who have committed the horrible crime of choosing to be born to poor parents, after all she believes it's wonderful to rape and torture children.
But I would think mentally NORMAL people would have the compassion to want to help a child no matter what "sins" the parents committed.
I guess I'm wrong.
Too many people consumed by hatred.
Blinded in their hatred to the fact that huge corporations steal more money than any so-called "welfare" cheat ever could.
But that's because they are cowards.
They don't dare stand up to the wealthy cheats....they are bullys so naturally they pick on those they deem "lesser" than themselves.
This is such an old argument, it just goes round and round with no end.
posted on August 11, 2004 11:46:37 PM new
I agree with Linda here. While I believe there is a place & need for programs like WIC, people who are using those services should not be having more kids in the meantime. To me, that is abuse of the system.
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
posted on August 12, 2004 05:15:22 AM new
The question under consideration is not the value of birth control. Most people agree that we shouldn't have more children than we can afford to care for. The question is how do we handle poor children and families when such efforts fail. How do we handle all other people who are legitimately unable to work.
When you say that you agree with Linda, I hope that you aren't advocating the elimination of welfare programs that help people and children in those situations.
One goal of any government should be to promote the overall welfare of its citizens.
You are right. Those programs must stay in place. The system is broken, but it's hardly the fault of these children or their families. It's mismanagement. We are supposedly the richest nation on Earth, although under this administration that's questionable. There's no excuse for any child to go to bed hungry. There's no excuse for any child to not have a coat, a blanket or a decent pair of shoes. I suppose, twelve, you would tell them to go out and get a job. I get really angry when people send money to the organizations that help children overseas, but balk at helping the children here. The parents can fend for themselves if need be, but the children cannot. They didn't choose to be born into poverty.
I've heard those opposing these programs (not necessarily here on these boards) advocate abortion as a means of birth control for those who cannot afford to have more children while at the same time opposing abortion for everyone else. You cannot have it both ways. Birth control is not 100%. Forcing someone to have their tubes tied or have a vasectomy is not only unconstitutional, it's outrageous. Why don't I hear more screaming about the women in third world countries that bear child after child that eventually starve to death? Some readily send money to them, but deny that same act to the children here. Makes no sense to me.
Cheryl
. . .if you still try to defend the infamies and horrors perpetrated by that Antichrist- I really believe he is Antichrist- I will have nothing more to do with you and you are no longer my friend.. . - War and Peace, Tolstoy
posted on August 12, 2004 05:45:02 AM new
Hello All, Twelvetoes votes republican. Do you really want this kind of person making laws in the U.S.A.? TWELVETOES I AM SORRY TO SAY IN MY BOOK YOU ARE A VERY SICK PERSON.
REAL AMERICANS NEED TO OUTSOURCE PEOPLE LIKE TWELVETOES AND THEIR FAILED REPUBLICAN LEADERS.
posted on August 12, 2004 06:49:25 AM new
WV is a huge welfare state... there are generations of welfare families and I am speaking generations... this is how welfare has done to people who should be out not receiving benefits but will continue to do so for years to come.
This statement by your candidate, Dennis Kucinich was right on target.
America is losing its way at home and in the world. We have no money to rebuild America's cities, but we have money to blow up cities in Iraq. No money to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to shelter the homeless in America, but money to rain death, destruction, and starvation on Iraq.
Once again, the hopes of people of two nations are being smashed by weapons in the name of eliminating weapons. Let us abolish weapons of mass destruction at home. I am from the inner city. I have inspected these weapons.
Joblessness is a weapon of mass destruction.
Poverty is a weapon of mass destruction.
Hunger is a weapon of mass destruction.
Poor health care is a weapon of mass destruction.
Poor education is a weapon of mass destruction.
Discrimination is a weapon of mass destruction.
Let us abolish such weapons of mass destruction here at home. Eight and a half million Americans are unemployed. Bankruptcies are up. The number of uninsured without health care is up. The price of prescription drugs is up. Poverty is up. Crime is up. Homelessness is up. Hopelessness is up. Fear is up. Let us use the trillion dollars which some would cast upon Iraq in bombs and warring troops, instead for the restoration of the American dream, to rebuild our economy, to rebuild our cities and to expand opportunities for all.
Those who say we can have guns and butter do not know the cost of guns and do not know the bread you would put your butter on is being stolen. America may spend over a trillion dollars for war in Iraq. America can give a trillion dollar tax cut to the rich, spend a trillion dollars to put weapons in space, but not a dime more for temporary assistance to needy families.
I believe the American people are people of strength, wisdom, and courage. They have a right to expect their government to be truly representative! It is time to say stop this war. It is time to recognize that the terror we visit on the people of Iraq will bring terror to our own people. Bring our troops home. Come home, America. Come home and fix your broken streets and mend your broken dreams. Come home and rebuild your cities and create full employment, put millions who are unemployed back to work. Come home and establish a living wage, let workers share the wealth they create. Come home and provide affordable housing. Come home and provide single-payer, guaranteed health care for the 41 million Americans who suffer illness with no relief. Come home, America. Come home and provide free public college for all who aspire to attend.
Come home and act affirmatively to make sure that all opportunities are afforded to all Americans.
posted on August 12, 2004 07:15:41 AM new
Excellent posts Helen, but unfortunately you're trying to convince people who love America but hate their fellow Americans. These are republicans..
Democrats love their country and realize what people like Kucinich have to say is what is the heart of American ideals, caring for all Americans, not just the "haves and have mores" whom the Republicans worship like gods.
posted on August 12, 2004 07:29:04 AM new
and where did kucinich finish in the race?
All of those items you list can be corrected without government handouts. Where is the responsibility that person needs to take upon themselves? Where is the self respect that people of this country seem to be losing thanks to liberals always telling them they are a minority or that because they can't get something right now they are being held back because of discrimination, being told that because you are poor and uneducated that the government has failed them... not that they have failed themselves...
Liberals are holding people back and don't even see it.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
Re-Elect President Bush... the only true choice.
[ edited by Twelvepole on Aug 12, 2004 07:31 AM ]
posted on August 12, 2004 07:39:00 AM new
No surprise at all that cheryl and helen support and value Mr. K's statements....he's a progressive socialist.
But while you both support him, at least helen has denied she's a socialist....just supports most of what Mr. K says. And cheryl has worked for his campaign. Speaks volumes to me as to supporting socialism.
posted on August 12, 2004 07:42:42 AM newWhen you say that you agree with Linda, I hope that you aren't advocating the elimination of welfare programs that help people and children in those situations.
I would be in favor of requiring people using such systems having the Norplant device or something similar to prevent further children while they are in such programs.
If someone is so poor or in need that they require support to survive,they simply should not be having more children. Period.
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
posted on August 12, 2004 07:43:08 AM newJohn Kerry
During the Bush term, more children have fallen into poverty, millions are without health insurance and education funds are being mismanaged.
Number of Children Enrolled in Pre-Kindergarten Decreased. According to the America's Children in Brief Report, the percentage of children enrolled in pre-kindergarten programs decreased over the past year. [UPI, 7/16/04]
Number of Children in Poverty Stricken Families Increased. According to the America's Children in Brief Report, “The percentage of children under age 18 who were related to the householder and living in poverty increased from 15.8 percent in 2001 to 16.3 percent in 2002.” [UPI, 7/16/04]
Bush’s Policies Hurt Our Children:
Under-Funded No Child Left Behind by $27 Billion. George Bush has failed to fully fund No Child Left Behind by $27 billion over the past four years. If Bush was serious about truly leaving no child behind, he would fully fund education in this country. [Compares Authorized and Appropriated Budgets for FY 2002, 2003 and 2004 and Bush’s Proposed FY 2005 Budget]
Bush Proposed Cutting After-School Programs by 40 Percent. George Bush proposed slashing after-school funding by 40 percent, denying after-school programs to more than 500,000 children. [Bush’s Proposed FY 2004 Budget]
Bush Proposed Cutting Approximately 500,000 Children Off of S-CHIP. The President’s FY 2005 budget proposes to cut Medicaid by approximately $16 billion over 10 years. The Bush proposal will force between 490,000 to 650,000 children off of S-CHIP. This is at a time when 44 million Americans are uninsured – 4 million more than when President Bush took office. [Office of Management and Budget, FY 2005 Budget, Table S-8; Center for Budget and Policy Priorities, “Up to 1.6 Million People – Including About Half a Million Children – Are Losing Health Coverage Due to State Budget Cuts,” 12/22/03]
Bush’s Mercury Rollback Threatens Hundreds of Thousands of Children. According to the New York Times, the White House staff deleted or modified language in the mercury emissions proposal to minimize the health risks posed by the toxic chemical. George Bush further caved to industry pressure and proposed to defer controls on mercury emissions by power plants for at least a decade. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimate that 4.9 million women of childbearing age in the U.S. — that's 8 percent — have unsafe levels of mercury in their blood. Every year over 630,000 infants are born with levels of mercury in their blood so high they can cause brain damage. [New York Times, 4/7/04]
Bush’s Economy Hurts Children and Families:
$2,050 Increase in Child Care Costs. In 2000, a family with 2 children under age 5 in full-time daycare was spending $10,860 on child care. By 2004, that figure increased to approximately $12,910. [Census Bureau, Consumer Price Index, Analysis by Amelia Warren Tyagi]
$2,630 Estimated Total Family Premium Increase. In the United States, the total family premium for health insurance has increased by $2,630 to $9,068. [Kaiser Family Foundation]
$1,207 Increase in College Tuition. Since Bush has taken office, tuition in the United States has increased by $1,207 at four-year public universities – a 35 percent increase. [College Board]
posted on August 12, 2004 07:43:23 AM newI can understand Linda not wanting to help innocent children
Another false statement....that goes right along with all the other false statements cf continues to make about me. No surprise there.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
posted on August 12, 2004 07:58:25 AM new "I would be in favor of requiring people using such systems having the Norplant device or something similar to prevent further children while they are in such programs."
That's an excellent suggestion but I would not try to make welfare for young families contingent on the use of such devices. Some additional financial incentive to promote the use of that device would be a good idea.
A child should not be a victim because his mother refuses to use such a device for whatever reason, ie. religious beliefs etc.
posted on August 12, 2004 08:02:56 AM new
Hey all you flaming neocons out there....how about ABORTION to get rid of all those nasty poor children you hate so much ????
posted on August 12, 2004 08:09:23 AM newBut every post of yours has said how little you care for children so it's not a false statement.
Yes, it is....it is a false, sick, twisted statement as most of your accusations about me [and others] are.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Prevent Bigotry through Education.
