posted on August 12, 2004 08:55:05 AM
One helen is your claim that college tuition rose by 35% under President Bush. It's just not true.
Here's a direct quote taken from kerry's own campaign website. "College tuition up 13 percent."
Plus, of course, his website does NOT mention that under the Bush administration Pell Grants and other grants have made it EASIER for students and their parents to afford college.
That's only one.
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"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
posted on August 12, 2004 08:59:39 AM
Then, in addition, there's this statement from factcheck.org about the 13% increase kerry claims:
[i]Contributing the most to the gloomy picture presented by Kerry's index is college tuition. Kerry aides used only the figure for four-year public colleges and universities, which has shot up 13% under Bush, even after adjusting for inflation. [b]But they excluded tuition for private colleges and universities, which went up only 5%. (Both figures are from the College Board's annual survey of college costs.)
posted on August 12, 2004 09:03:17 AM
helen - did you or did you not post this under Bush economy hurts families?
$1,207 Increase in College Tuition. Since Bush has taken office, tuition in the United States has increased by $1,207 at four-year public universities – a 35 percent increase. [College Board]
I don't understand your sudden confusion about what facts you're trying to get people to believe.
posted on August 12, 2004 09:09:25 AM
There are many articles similar to this one on CBS....who does NOT back President Bush...but favors kerry.
----
kerry said:
"We need to make it possible for families to send their children to school without breaking the bank," says Kerry on the campaign trail.
But Sen. Kerry's plan for financial aid doesn't help Franco. He chose a private school and Kerry's plan -- $50 billion paid for by tax increases – can only be applied to public college.
If a student gives two years of community service, Kerry says, "We are going to pay for their four-year public education."
If Franco were to get any more help paying tuition it would be from President Bush.
Edited to add the link and to say that these are the underprivledged you often speak of and want us to pay for what their choices are. I don't think we, as taxpayers, owe his young man a private college education. He can go to a public college as it would be less expensive....since his family is very low income. Reality has to set in at some point.
Linda, I'm sure if you search the web you can find percentages all over the board based on individual schools or number of years on which the tuition increase covers.
As you know tuition has increased so that many students are unable to attend college.
posted on August 12, 2004 09:19:37 AM
Oh...so now we're admitting you don't agree with what kerry's own site says? That it was 13%?
Your posts are beginning to lack credibility recently, helen. You want to show us just where you got the 35% figure from? Maybe you could prove it to the kerry campaign - who could stretch the true figures just a little more than they're already doing.
posted on August 12, 2004 09:35:09 AM
That statement is laughable, coming from you, Linda who spends the entire day promoting the latest smear campaign and Bush Lie.
Bush Shortchanged Own Education Law by $9.4 Billion in 2005. Bush proposed $9.4 billion less for his No Child Left Behind Act than was authorized by the act in his 2005 budget. Bush has shortchanged NCLB by a total of $33.2 billion in his last four budgets. [Department of Ed Budgets 2001-2005, www.ed.gov]
Bush Terminated Dropout Prevention Programs. Bush cut dropout prevention programs entirely out of his 2005 budget. In explanation of the cut, OMB called the programs “unnecessary,” saying that other funding was available for this purpose. [Budget of the United States, www.omb.gov; Major Reductions and Terminations in the 2005 Budget, OMB]
Half of All Hispanics Drop Out by High School. According to a study released in February 2004 by The Urban Institute, only 53 percent of all Hispanic students got a high school diploma in 2001. [The Urban Institute, Who Graduates, Who doesn’t,www.urban.org, 2/25/04]
Tuition at Maryland's state universities rose 20 percent last year, Pribnow points out. It is expected to increase by an additional 11 percent this fall. Further, she writes, "the projected funding cuts will deny enrollment at the state's 11 public campuses to about 3,000 qualified students." These projections may be overly dire because enrollments at Maryland's public universities, like at most campuses across the nation, continue to rise. However, we should still be concerned because higher costs are most likely to affect poor and working-class students who are already struggling to pay, and who are most at risk of being priced out of higher education.
posted on August 12, 2004 10:13:29 AM
In my previous post I said that I believed that the Social Welfare System was created with all good intentions of giving a helping hand, but over the years the message of a hand up has become a hand out.
The current system has not addressed the problem, in fact, I believe the only thing it has succeeded in doing is to complicate things even more.
In my opinion, everyone who receives welfare should have to work for it, excluding the disabled and children. If you apply for welfare, you should be given a list of jobs to choose from and you must work that job in order to receive your welfare check. I'd propose jobs like trash pick-up on our roadsides and parks, or security jobs or child care, or do on job training as a means of employment.. that kind of thing.. work for pay.. a certain segment could do the child care while others work outside the homes.. school aged children must be in school and parents held responsible if they do not attend.. in other words the government will help those who help themselves..
Just my humble opinion.. Drdolittle
posted on August 12, 2004 10:17:30 AM
helen - upon reading that link you gave....it's a BLOG....and a Peter Daou posted those statements.
Who's Peter Daou....just a blog poster or does he work for the kerry campaign?
I can get 'so called facts' from many BLOG sites too....what's more reliable would be kerry's own offical statements about the numbers....not some blog poster.
posted on August 12, 2004 10:27:13 AM
The facts are that under President Bush's administration spending for education has INCREASED by 58%. And in the NCLB all he's asking for is some accountability. With that kind of an increase....WE, the taxpayers, deserve accountibility. We deserve the right to know which children are not learning....so that extra funding can be given to those children. And we'll never know who's falling behind IF we don't test.
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But I just love that the dems are still complaining about NOT ENOUGH FUNDING....while bitchin' about the deficit. Not even happy with a 58% increase.
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And here's the press release, helen from kerrys own website mentioning the false statement about the 13% increase. Not taking into account the 5% increase in some colleges.
Think a press release from the kerry campaign might better reflect kerry's position....that some blogger poster who doesn't even support his 35% statement? I sure do.
[i]The chorus that there is inadequate funding under NCLB just doesn't wash. America's
schools are experiencing record levels of federal funding. [b]Under President Bush, funding
for ESEA programs reauthorized by NCLB has climbed $7.4 billion, or 43 percent[/b][/i].
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Those are only two reasons why we need to:
Re-elect President Bush!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Aug 12, 2004 10:34 AM ]
posted on August 12, 2004 10:48:37 AM
I think we can all agree that there are serious social problems in this country. If you choose to have a number of children your resources are going to go towards family expense to a much greater degree than if you have no children or one or two. The scramble for material possessions has left child-bearing behind as a casualty. We do not breed sufficiently to maintain our population, but depend upon immigration to keep the picture rosy looking. Having children should not be a punishable by destitution. We suffer from seriously skewed priorities.
posted on August 12, 2004 10:56:41 AM
Gives more resources to schools
Today, more than $7,000 on average is spent per pupil by local, state and federal taxpayers. States and local school districts are now receiving more federal funding than ever before for all programs under No Child Left Behind:
$23.7 billion, most of which will be used during the 2003-04 school year. This represents an increase of 59.8 percent from 2000 to 2003. A large portion of these funds is for grants under Title I of ESEA: Improving the Academic Achievement of the Disadvantaged.
Title I grants are awarded to states and local education agencies to help states and school districts improve the education of disadvantaged students; turn around low-performing schools; improve teacher quality; and increase choices for parents. (For more about Title I, see the introductory paragraph to Q-and-As.) For fiscal year (FY) 2003, funding for Title I alone is $11.7 billion--an increase of 33 percent since the passage of No Child Left Behind.
President Bush's FY 2004 budget request would increase spending on Title I by 48 percent since he took office.
edited to add link and to say drdoolittle I agree with your statements again. I think that would very much discourage those who aren't the truly needy from getting something for nothing.
posted on August 12, 2004 11:27:55 AM
Members of several education associations with whom Education World spoke said they support most of the aims of No Child Left Behind.
"Overall, we are supportive of it -- probably more so than most organizations," says Jamie Horwitz, a spokesman for the American Federation of Teachers (AFT), which represents 1.2 million education professionals nationwide. "We like the professional development component, the emphasis on reading, Title I, and that it did not include a voucher program. We think it will have a positive affect."
The AASA supports the goals of No Child Left Behind but could not endorse it because of the extent to which it expands the role of the federal government in education, says AASA spokesman Bruce Hunter.
"We didn't oppose it, but we said very loudly what we did not like about it," Hunter tells Education World. "Our position largely had to do with federalism; education is a state and local matter. This enlarged the federal government's role to one that is unneeded and unnecessary. The Tenth Amendment to the Constitution says if something is not in the Constitution, then it is the states' responsibility. We say they overstepped their bounds. At some point, you give up something precious if you let the federal government tell the states and local government how to assess schools.
"It is full of good stuff," Hunter adds. "We are very supportive of other efforts. For example, they finally noticed that one-quarter of school systems are small and rural and need special help. They also improved local flexibility."
Some critics say they fear financial constraints could make executing the requirements in the bill difficult in many states. The bill does authorize $400 million to help states design and administer tests aligned to state standards for third through eighth graders. However, a National Association of State Boards of Education study estimates the cost of developing and implementing testing programs in all the states at $7 billion over seven years, which was the original life of the act. It was changed to six years.
"We lauded the goals, but we are disappointed with the means," Fleischauer, the NEA spokeswoman, tells Education World. "This failed to deliver the support needed for children to achieve. It is hard to see how this will be made real at a time when states are facing deficits, a recession, and budget cuts."
Critics, expected to speak out more frequently as the campaign season heats up, have argued that the funding increases that Bush touts aren't nearly enough to cover the costs of the new requirements, including the expense of creating tests and processing their results.
"We agree with the whole idea of standards and accountability, but it isn't being funded the way everybody thought it would be," Sandra Feldman, president of the American Federation of Teachers, a union representing more than 1 million teachers, said in a telephone interview Sunday. "An increase that is billions short of what you need to carry out the mandates just doesn't do it."
It's amusing that you would question my sources. Let's see, what are your sources - Drudge, Limbaugh and all the rightwing rags including a W.VA college newspaper written in 1971? ...The Rapid Response Center that you incorrectly called a blog is a part of the John Kerry Official web site. If you go to the John Kerry Official Web Site and click on Rapid Response you will find responses to the lies that you read from the Bush administration. All of my information was found on that part of the Kerry site. There is also a blog which you can access by clicking a tab at the top of the page.
The information posted by Kerry's staff is linked to reliable sources including the Bush Budget. How could you not believe that.
The Rapid Response Center is especially interesting and can be found on the list in the left column under Get Informed. There, you will find responses to the lies that you read in all those rags.
posted on August 12, 2004 12:39:39 PM
helen - I will point out to you, once again, that kerry's OWN press release says 13%....twist it however you wish.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Those are only two reasons why we need to:
Re-elect President Bush!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Aug 12, 2004 12:45 PM ]
posted on August 12, 2004 01:51:17 PM
Linda, I checked your link and it's stated as
Misery Index from 2002 to 2003:
So there is a time discrepancy. The Rapid Response Center from which I got my information is current...August 2004.
I doubt that it will impress you but the tuition in Maryland has gone up 20% for state schools and is expected to rise an additional 11%...a total of 31%.
posted on August 12, 2004 01:51:47 PM
So now you're going from arguing with kerry's own press release to lying. I've never said my opinions are facts. I have presented facts to support my opinions but that's not what your accusing me of now.
posted on August 12, 2004 02:04:48 PM In fact, the figures for gasoline and Health premiums have gone up substantially since that date also.
3. 2003 Witnessed Record or Near-record Jumps in the Cost of Healthcare, College Tuition and Gasoline. The following are the inflation-adjusted increases for some of the major components of the Middle-class Misery Index from 2002 to 2003:
• Wages down 0.2 percent
• College tuition up 13 percent – the largest increase on record
• Health premiums up 11 percent – the largest increase since 1977
• Gasoline up 15 percent – the second largest increase since 1980
posted on August 12, 2004 03:25:55 PM
Linda, I said to you...You believe whatever you want to believe...as you once claimed, your opinion is a fact. Hahaha!
Then you said to me...
So now you're going from arguing with kerry's own press release to lying. I've never said my opinions are facts. I have presented facts to support my opinions but that's not what your accusing me of now.
In this thread, we were discussling Swartzkopf's opinion of the war which he had stated a couple of years ago. Based on a news article it was my opinion that he against the Iraq war. You leaped to the conclusion that we thought he would pull out of the war.
You said, "Do you have proof that he's said we should put our tails between our legs and run".....??????
So, you made up something that we had not discussed and then demanded proof of our opinion---an opinion which only you had stated. It appeared that you believed that opinions required proof and therefore your opinion was proof.
It became a joke when you required proof of an opinion that only you had stated we had. I meant that remark above in a friendly way. Perhaps that's not possible with you.
There was another thread in which you made an issue of "proving" an opinion.
posted on August 12, 2004 03:57:35 PM
ROFLMHO @ you helen. Your posts have nothing to do with kerry's press release from April 12, 2004.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
posted on August 12, 2004 04:10:33 PM
Twelvepole is a wacked out neo-con. By the same token, if WIC and other "socialist" programs should be killed, I suppose that would also mean that we should throw out the FDIC, we should axe corporate welfare, our government should stop all road and highway improvements, we should ban all forms of government management including parks and recreation, we should axe the military, we should axe the police department, the fire department, traffic management, public utilities, Social Security, we should axe government protection for oil companies, we should axe government control of the airwaves, and the airports, we should pretty much do away with all government. In fact, his neo-con views would eventually lead to total anarchy since there would be no government control over anything. Complete lawlessness, murder, chaos.
2 years til we ban all all forms of regulation and government. Then we are all on our own... right, Twelve??? or, will you argue that some programs should be banned, and others that twelve believes are important should always remain.
posted on August 12, 2004 04:14:10 PM Linda, you said "helen - I will point out to you, once again, that kerry's OWN press release says 13%....twist it however you wish."
posted on August 12, 2004 04:17:53 PM
LOL again...helen...you're like a pit bull....you grab hold - then won't let go for anything....then say you don't care.
Good...I'm glad you don't care. You posted absolutely FALSE information...I called you on it and you've acted like a child ever since. Bring up all sorts of other side topics to avoid acknowledging your c&p was incorrect.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
I think that would very much discourage those who aren't the truly needy from getting something for nothing.
