posted on July 21, 2000 08:24:35 PM new
twelvepole, is that the best comment you can come up with? You'd better find a good woman to help you with the feeble mentality.
posted on July 21, 2000 08:26:24 PM new
I think I need to find a real life job myself, to suppliment my income (ebay). Is something wrong with this picture? lol
I didn't really understand what women go through until I grew my hair long.
Consider the possibility that "men" have always looked at you that way, and that your self consciousness over long hair has worked only to make you become aware of it.
Your earlier comment. It seemed critical of the conversation. I was merely pointing out that there are other venues if you find this one displeasing, although certainly you are more than welcome to join in.
posted on July 21, 2000 08:33:20 PM new
It's spelled 'chauvinistic', and it means the same thing as feeble, lol
Long ago I taught my niece the meaning of that word..I told her it's when a boy thinks he's better than a girl just because he's a boy.
Which, of course, is utterly repugnant.
posted on July 21, 2000 08:33:46 PM new
I was just commenting on Calamity talking about beauty pageants, and it went from that to other not-so-nice things. I may have commented when I shouldnt have. Sorry. And thanks for welcoming me....I do have a comment, but folks might not like it. My comment is, I like it when men look at me. It shows Im still "passable", or rather, "pleasing" to the eye. It makes me feel "pretty". Is that wrong?
posted on July 21, 2000 08:34:14 PM new
I'm sorry twelve, but I cant let this go "Of course real men still have both testicles."
That was very unfair and quite sweeping a comment. I personally know of one man who lost one in a motorcycle accident and he is not less of a man. There are millions who have lost to cancer and it makes them no less a man. Kelly
posted on July 21, 2000 08:36:20 PM new
To clarify, I dont flaunt, or wear tight stuff. But I do tend to show off some parts of me that I am proud of, although I dont do it to look nasty. I do it for ME. When I start to look too wrinkly and old and frumpy, then I will hide it. Until then, "flaunt it while ya got it". This is just my opinion. I mean, why else wear makeup and buy nice things if not to show say "see me"?
posted on July 21, 2000 08:37:47 PM new
And as far as the 'old-fashioned' excuse... nah, that won't fly either. My Grandfather was as old-fashioned as they come but he never made any female feel like they were worth less than him. And that's exactly the message a man conveys to a woman when he ogles her... that she is a 'thing', not a person, and does not deserve enough respect that he should consider the fact that his behavior is offensive to her. Just a woman, I can look. Doesn't matter to me if she doesn't want me too. She should go without groceries and stay home if she doesn't like men staring at her. Why should I care if it bothers her? Why should I care if by my actions I am in fact slapping her by telling her loud and clear that she is nothing? I'm a feeble man, and that's what we do. Sheesh.
posted on July 21, 2000 08:38:46 PM new
Thank you Maui and I bet you still get the looks too. It's spelled 'chauvinistic', and it means the same thing as feeble
K-cat, you must have a different dictionary than I have. LOL
...and I never said better. I believe in equal pay for equal work. Of course some of your fellow sisters think that being a woman allows them to be weaker... go figure.
posted on July 21, 2000 08:41:22 PM new
What does one call a woman who DOES want to be ogled? Is it cheap? Is it nasty? Women dress up, do their hair, enhance what they have to look good. WHY? To make others LOOK. Not degrading looks, but to look and admire. Why not? Women who go to clubs dress up, want to be asked to dance, want to laugh and have fun and make men look...and they also want to make the women look too, as in "see me...I look pretty dam good, dont I?"...right?
posted on July 21, 2000 08:42:22 PM new
twelve, you must have totally given this a miss........
osted on July 21, 2000 08:34:14 PM edit
I'm sorry twelve, but I cant let this go "Of course real men still have both testicles."
That was very unfair and quite sweeping a comment. I personally know of one man who lost one in a
motorcycle accident and he is not less of a man. There are millions who have lost to cancer and it
makes them no less a man.
Kelly
posted on July 21, 2000 08:47:39 PM new
Here it is in a nutshell....Cat and I are on IM....and in our conversations, we are discussing this aspect of oggled versus non-ogled. She was olged many times because Cat is pretty, and hated it. I just started being ogled and I love it. So those who dont like it, experienced it all the time. Those who have never been ogled, like it when it happens. Simple.
posted on July 21, 2000 08:49:16 PM newyou must have a different dictionary than I have Yes, that is abundantly clear.
And let me ask you something and get an honest answer... if you were leering at a woman and she asked you to stop because it was bothering her, would you? Or would you tell her that you don't care about her feelings because she's just a woman and women are put on this earth to give men something to stare at?
posted on July 21, 2000 08:50:13 PM new
maui, Hi! I appreciate being appreciated, especially right now after so much dehumanization. There is a subtle (sometimes) and blatant (often) difference tho.
I appreciate the side look, not the I'd jump yer bones in a New York minute look. That last one is scary.
Kelly
[ edited by kitsch1 on Jul 21, 2000 08:53 PM ]
posted on July 21, 2000 08:50:22 PM new
Your right Kelly I did and your right, having them removed by accident or disease does not make them less of a man, letting a woman metaphorically castrate you does.
k-cat It's amazing that you still come up with the word "feeble". Only feeble men I know of are the ones who support N.O.W.
posted on July 21, 2000 08:51:56 PM new
Hi Kel!!! Yes, I know what you mean...well....I dont know what you mean, not ever been ogled like that before....sigh....
posted on July 21, 2000 08:55:23 PM new
I think what Twelve is saying is, he likes looking at beautiful women and because he is male, its a normal reaction for him. On the other hand, women who are drop dead gorgeous are on the other end of that stare. Being non male, and non drop dead gorgeous, I have no idea what it means to be in either shoe. But I see what hes getting at and understand it. Hell, I look at drop dead gorgeous women too, but I usually mutter nasty names about them under my breath too, lol.
posted on July 21, 2000 08:59:19 PM new
Kelly, YES!
Ok, Maui and I are still on IM and twelvepole she is defending you in this manner: "He was saying he liked looking at beautiful women and sees nothing wrong with it." Now, I'm not sure if that is anything different than what I'm reading in to it. Because although YOU might see nothing wrong with it, that beautiful woman MIGHT, and in the very action, you are violating her. What I am reading is that it is ok for a man to behave in a way that might offend a woman because she doesn't matter. That to me is not only chauvinistic but reprehensible behavior of one human to another.
If you are saying anything other than that, please clarify.
Kelly spoke of a 'casual glance' vs. a 'stare'.
Which is it that the average man deems acceptable? Either, because it doesn't matter to an ogler if it is received positively or not.
I think you hit on an important point. All day long, women are bombarded by messages from the media, society, co-workers, etc. on what it takes to be desirable. I think they pick and choose elements from the grand picture of "desirability" that they feel are right for them, then incorporate them into their persona, whether it be a certain manner of attire, cosmetics, deportment, etc. But I think the choices they make are at heart choices that please the wearer, not the starer. I think many women wish to be desirable according to their own definition of what desirable is, NOT twelvepole's (or any other guy's) definition.
When twelvepole asks why some women wear articles of clothing that highlight certain parts of the body, I think the answer he wants to hear is that it's all done to drive men crazy. But I think the real answer is simply that these articles of clothing mesh with the women's own personal concepts of what it means to feel desirable -- concepts formed by years of synthesizing what the world at large tells them desirability is.
(If this sounds a little convoluted, forgive me. I'm very tired tonight.)
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