posted on September 23, 2004 10:56:46 PM newWhat was posted is historical fact
Bunk. You've posted nothing more than religious drivel devoid of any historical fact.
But I'm not surprised.
So do you dispute the FACT that your bible was cut and pasted together by The Council called by Constantine and that all the other christian religious books rejected by this council were banished under penalty of death ?
posted on September 24, 2004 04:51:20 PM new
"All of a sudden, after the death of a Nazarene carpenter, these Jewish people no longer offered sacrifices. Within a short time after Jesus' death, Jews were beginning to say that you don't become an upstanding member of their community merely by keeping Moses' laws. The Jews worshiped every Saturday"
Actually, CC, you are in fact wrong on this point. That situation was based more on the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD than anything the Christians did.
Once the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple, they were forced to change many of their practices. Moses' laws had to be modified because it was simply impossoble for the Jews to keep following them once they lost control of Jerusalem.
Sacrifices could ONLY take place in the Temple, and the Temple can ONLY exist in Jerusalem. If the Jews had control of Jerusalem and rebuilt the Temple even today, the sacrifices would have to resume. It *IS* part of Jewish law.
Yeah, I'm in the middle of a Religious History class in college right now
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We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on September 24, 2004 08:13:16 PM new
Replay is correct. The end of sacrifices had everything to do with the destruction of the Temple, and nothing to do with Jesus. This is chronicled and explained in many historical and modern Jewish texts. When (if) the Temple is restored, sacrifices will have to resume under Mosaic Law.
Additionally, the "Nazarene carpenter" business is highly debatable. First off, nowhere does the bible declare that Jesus was from Nazareth. He was born in Bethlehem, and at least one of the gospels hints that his family may have actually lived there, rather than traveling there for census. Nazareth is believed by most biblical scholars to have been founded after the time of Jesus. It isn't mentioned in any documents contemporary with Jesus' time, and doesn't show on any Roman maps. It's more likely that the term is a corruption of the term Nazorite, or Nazorean, which was a sect that existed at the time (and still exists in Iraq, the descendents of the followers of John the Baptist, the Mandeans). The Nazoreans taught baptism and ritual meals, which represented the body and blood of the host performing the ceremony. They also practiced a ritual of initiation which included a symbolic rebirth or ressurection, following a symbolic death and passage through the underworld. Is this what Jesus performed for Lazarus maybe?? It's been speculated for years that Jesus may have been a Nazorite, or Nazorean, but it's highly unlikely that he was a Nazarene.
As for being a carpenter, well, which is it, a lineal heir to the House of David and Solomon, or an impoverished workman? The gospels give considerable evidence to the idea that Jesus was far from impoverished, considering that he hung out with the wealthy as often as the poor, or even more so. Remember the famous wedding he saved. Even a casual reading of the story in the bible shows that this was no poor person's country nuptuals. There were servants. An enormous quantity of wine was produced. And what about Joseph of Arimethea, who requested Jesus' body after his death? Archeological evidence points to the fact that only the wealthy had private tombs on their property. Jesus' tomb belonged to Joseph of Arimethea. We aren't told why Joseph requested his corpse, but one could assume he was a follower of Jesus. A rich follower. One who may have supported the reinstitution of the line of David as political entity as much as a spiritual one. Some research into the meaning of the word messiah to the Jews of Jesus' time shows that it had to do with a political saviour, not a spiritual one.
Faith is good when it gives us peace and allows us to make our way in the world. When it makes us claim that we are right and somebody else is wrong, it's bad. Pure and simple.
[ edited by profe51 on Sep 24, 2004 08:14 PM ]
posted on September 24, 2004 08:36:48 PM newFaith is good when it gives us peace and allows us to make our way in the world. When it makes us claim that we are right and somebody else is wrong, it's bad. Pure and simple.
posted on September 24, 2004 10:44:39 PM new
ChristianCoffee, don't waste your time. Some people just don't get it. As the Bible said, "They have eyes but cannot see."
posted on September 25, 2004 06:41:18 AM new
Just to clarify my post... I *AM* on CC's side here, but I like to keep accuracy on my side too. If we as Christians claim ANYTHING which is easily proven wrong, it makes people doubt our whole argument.
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We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on September 25, 2004 08:31:00 AM newChristianCoffee, don't waste your time. Some people just don't get it. As the Bible said, "They have eyes but cannot see."
I guess your christian credo must be "Strength Through Ignorance".
There are thousands of christians that constantly spew bible verses that they do not understand, are contemplated void of any historicial context, and topped off with bigoted superficial emotions.
Once you grasp the history and context of christianity, it is shown to be no different than any other mythology.
Your christian belief is no more valid than the muslims, or hindu.
posted on September 25, 2004 06:28:29 PM new
"Faith is good when it gives us peace and allows us to make our way in the world. When it makes us claim that we are right and somebody else is wrong, it's bad. Pure and simple."
That is an EXCELLENT statement. As Jesus said, "Treat others as you would have them treat you." If everyone followed this simple statement, how much better would this world be? Because this simple statement cuts through all the political (and other) BS that we wade through every day.
"Who's tending the bar? Sniping works up a thirst"
posted on September 25, 2004 07:02:26 PM new
CC says when describing how he "got religion",
There was a major void in my life, and I was filling it with booze, drugs and sex.
Well, I guess you are a little more worldly than me. I only socially drink, NEVER used drugs, and didn't fill my life's voids with loose sex.
CC, I think that you should clarify that wiccan are not all that way. I know several and none of them participate in those behaviors. You must of been pretty wild. I personally think that people like you that suddenly found or re-found religion are, in my opinion, the worst kind of so called christians.
Helen,
Faith is good when it gives us peace and allows us to make our way in the world. When it makes us claim that we are right and somebody else is wrong, it's bad. Pure and simple.
I like that too Helen. That statements holds so much truth.
Reamond,
There are thousands of christians that constantly spew bible verses that they do not understand, are contemplated void of any historical context, and topped off with bigoted superficial emotions.
That is so true. I have a sister who "got religion" and that's all she does. Recently, she was debating a medical student on a certain medical treatment. His position was based on medical science, indicating the proven technique. Her position was based on biblical scripture. She indicated "the scripture says"....blah...blah.....blah.......! After she left the room, I said to him "you have to excuse her, she is always like that".
Now, I know there will be a few here that will likely defend my sister's position as her true entitled belief. How would you feel about your Doctor arguing with the other Doctors in the operation room about your treatment, using scripture as "the guide"?
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 25, 2004 07:40:36 PM new
There are so many people that have been the victims of the christian church.
The Amish of Europe were drowned in rivers because they refused to baptize their children as infants. They were placed into large burlap type bags and thrown into river to drown. The christian church thought that the river would be the "just reward" for those who refuse to comply with traditional baptismal practice. In the 1700's, the Amish started to flee to the "new world", mainly settling in Pennsylvania. That's why there are so many Amish in that state and in the Midwest. There are no more Amish in Europe. They either fled Europe, or were murdered.
The people of the Wicca faith were also victims of the christian chruch. Wicca is one of the oldest religions in the world. When the christian church was in it's infancy, it's goal was to remove other religions so it could be the dominate religion. Many Wicca refused to convert to the "new religion" and perished at the hands of the christian church. The preferred method of extermination for these people was to be tied to a stake and burned alive. It is estimated that about 7 million innocent people were murdered by the christian church between the years of 1400 - 1700.
The christian church also used trickery to try to convince people to change. In the ancient Wicca faith, one of the gods was a horned god. The christian church used this against them and created the devil, a evil creature with horns on it's head. They were led to believe that one who didn't convert to the christian faith would become the victim of this devil for an entirety.
The christian church has done anything needed to persuade the weak minded to follow their lead. Including MURDER!
Today's modern christians don't tie anybody to stakes or drown them. They use bombs in the case of the abortion clinics. They sometimes kill everyone in the building, including the doctors, employees, other staff members. This of course doesn't exclude the people in the waiting room giving a ride to the patient, or the people outside of the build walking on the sidewalk.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
Sniping works up a thirst"
Prevent Bigotry through Education.