posted on July 27, 2000 07:25:58 AMBunnicula Another part of that problem is that even when you're lucky enough to find a child's hockey team that doesn't put up with unsportsmanship-like conduct (from parents or the kids) it's tough to explain to your kid why the "professional" players act like they do. Whatever happened to self-control and self-respect in a game...and it is just a game.
posted on July 27, 2000 10:44:50 AM
You know, I grew up in a household where my parents decided that they'd raised me "wrong", and weren't going to make the same mistake with my brother. Among other things, whenever anybody else (from yours truly to his grandfather) got a prize/present, my brother got one too, "so he won't feel left out". I, of course, at 7 was "old enough to know better" and thus was left pretty much to sort out my feelings by myself. I spent years simmering with outrage at their double standard and furious that, when they didn't ignore my achievements, they diluted them by rewarding my brother (for nothing) at the same time they congratulated me.
As it turns out, I was the lucky one. My brother never learned that you take turns being special. He never learned to wait for anything, or how to enjoy others' achievements. He was utterly at a loss whenever he didn't get picked, didn't get to go someplace others did, or didn't win. At 36, although he's had more college than I, he's never been away from home overnight by himself, never been on a date, never even bought clothes without my mother along. (Yes, he's of normal intelligence and although thanks to his hothouse upbringing more than a bit weird, he's not "mentally ill".)
My parents thought they were doing him a favor by protecting him from what they somehow saw as the trauma which would result from the cruel world's making him sit on the sidelines for a day, an hour, or even a minute. They did him the great disservice of never providing him the opportunity to learn to deal with sometimes being "the other one."
It took me a couple decades to really "get" that my parents were not mean but misguided and to get over the hurt they caused me, however unintentional. But my brother - the one they wanted to keep from feeling "not special" - was the truly injured one.
posted on July 27, 2000 11:48:39 AM
To this day my mother still tucks a little something for me in the boxes she sends the kids for their birthdays. Some perfumed lotion or some specialty coffee, nothing major. I will probably do the same for my kids when they have children of their own. I never felt enraged when my sister got a little toy on my birthday because I got the good stuff My kids feel the same way.
HCQ leaving you out was cruel and I'm sorry. If your parents felt inclined to let your brother have a treat during someone else's celebration, you should have gotten one too. That sends the wrong message.
posted on July 27, 2000 01:29:13 PMkiheicat, thanks for your kind words but I disagree very strongly with your solution.
If they'd given ME "a treat too", my parents would've kept me, as they did my brother, from learning that every person has a special time, and learning to enjoy others' enjoyment. Fortunately I had reasonable grandparents with the sense to TRY to tell my brother at times like those "It's Uncle Ern's turn to be special today. You'll have a special time too, on your birthday." My parents would have none of that, however, and crippled my brother for life by never allowing him to learn that he will not die if he has to wait his turn.
Mom and Dad were two messed-up people (with Dad leading the parade). Now that Dad's been dead ten years (this is a man whose idea of pillow talk was telling her all the ways he was thinking of killing himself), Mom has finally had a chance to turn into a reasonably well-adjusted human being. I'm sorry she had to wait until her mid-60s, but I'm glad she'll have a few happy years at least.
back on the subject of the toothfairy for a moment. my children now 14 and 15 were always given a small toy for their tooth, the ones in the machines were always perfect surprizes since my kids knew that mommy and daddy would not waste money on those things. and thank your child for the tooth the day of the post my new baby got his first tooth. one child loses and one gains. what a switch off, huh?
posted on July 27, 2000 06:25:25 PM
Hey, I kinda like the idea that the Tooth Fairy comes to "recycle" baby teeth!
As I recall I got a dime, which was enough to buy 2 candy bars (sigh). Two bucks seems like a lot, but at 69 cents for an Almond Joy (we won't get into the irony of buying candy with one's tooth $), maybe it's not so out of line...
posted on July 27, 2000 07:38:06 PM
My ex was there for only a couple of pullings. I despise the very thought of pulling a tooth, so here's what I do. They get a dollar if I have to pull it and 5 dollars if they do it themselves. I have never had to pull a tooth yet. When it starts getting loose enough that I have to worry they will swallow it, I ask them to pull it and they do.
One thing we never had was the tooth fairy. It's too unbelievable, I never believed it. Kelly
posted on July 27, 2000 08:04:48 PM
After 12 years of battling infertility and finally getting a miracle I can only say Yipppeee job security for santa, easter bunny, toothfairy. My other children are 14 and 15 and they pretend to believe to make us feel good. There is nothing neater than seeing teenagers play up to santa each year. With so much violence and hate in the world a little magic never hurt anybody. Remember santa, easter bunny and the toothfairy have never been convicted of crimes against mankind. Lets all get together and keep the magic alive for the younger generation and maybe some of the horrible things will go away.
posted on July 27, 2000 10:16:30 PM
kitsch1 - That incentive thing isn't a bad idea. My son's tooth was loose for about a week or so. It was right in front and the new tooth was pushing it out. He'd developed a sort of Mortimer Snerd look that was both funny and distracting. I was somewhat concerned that it may be damaging to the new tooth's proper growth. I tried to yank it by surprise while conducting an examination but it was a tenacious little bugger and I didn't want to traumatize him. I sometimes view these parent/child things as fodder for future psychoanalysis and try to avoid being too heavy handed.
My wife wasn't worried but to appease me, I think, she gave him an apple. I scoffed, of course. He took a bite and the tooth came out. Stuck right in the apple! Probably wouldn't happen again in a million years. They both seemed quite smug about it. Hope it works for the next one.
posted on July 28, 2000 12:27:55 PMIf they'd given ME "a treat too", my parents would've kept me, as they did my brother, from learning that every person has a special time, and learning to enjoy others' enjoyment.
Didn't happen to me and my parents and grandparents gave me a little something when it was my sister's birthday. It was her big day and it didn't take away at all from her celebration...my family has been doing that for generations...guess I'm just used to it so I didn't see it as keeping us from enjoying our own individual special times because it has never had that effect.
Whatever...guess some things work for some folks and not for others.
posted on July 28, 2000 12:38:27 PM
Kiheicat: It's simple. The difference is what the gifts were communicating. In your family they successfully communicated something positive (I love you too). In HCQ's case they appear to have been communicating something different (You're the important one).
Irene
[ edited by stockticker on Jul 28, 2000 12:39 PM ]
Well growing up as a twin, you learn a good deal about being treated as part of a set, rather than an individual. Joint birthdays, joint teachers, being called "the girls", and so forth...a price paid, but worth it, as the experience of having anyone so very close to you is extraordinary.
Ya know, it sounds so generalized, but I think the most important thing is that each child feels *seen* for the unique person he or she is. The traditions of gift-giving aren't as meaningful (in my opinion) as they're being heralded here, that's only a tiny piece of the puzzle...it's the personal sense you have that you are valued and loved as an individual.
That message is conveyed in a million different ways, and my parents worked hard to help the two of us be independent creatures, and to discover our individual talents, which happen to be highly disparate, interestingly.
It isn't the traditions, it isn't the form, it's the *substance* that matters. And the substance isn't something expressed in any easily identifiable form, it's mysterious and wholly wonderful.
I didn't understand it well myself until my second child (whom I was terrified to have, because I thought I could never love anyone or anything as much as my first) was born.
But when Mister Christopher arrived, Sir Independent and Feisty from the first, absolutely and utterly different than my serene and lovely Jennifer, I found out that there is not necessarily a hierarchy in the heart, that it can grow to whatever size you allow it to, and encompass all manner of sameness and difference.
Sometimes my two share in the same things, sometimes they are individually heralded, and the level to which that occurs is not something I spend a lot of time measuring...it doesn't seem important to me.
What does seem important is that they each have as much of me as I can give, and that they each know to the fullness of my ability to express it how much they are each and together loved and treasured.
As I understood that. Despite sharing nearly everything with my twin.
posted on July 28, 2000 03:03:35 PM
(A bit more, having thought a bit...)
Without wanting it to be so, I think the above post is defensive in a way.
After reflection, I think it's because I got scared when I read the various posts...scared that it could be one of mine feeling things like that one day, posting somewhere that they hadn't felt equally loved by me.
Parenting is so hard...somedays I get so caught up in my own stuff I barely hear my kids talking to me. Other times I sit for hours just watching them sleep or marveling at the innocence that still exists in their eyes. Sometimes it's pure discipline to give them my time, other times it's pure joy.
I wish someone had a formula for what's right and wrong, but I think that probably the lack of such is what brings about the range of individuality I really like in the people I've met.
I suppose the best we can do is the best we can do...and hope that our children will someday forgive the mistakes we make.
D. (who will now stop bloviating and go play with aforesaid children instead!)
posted on July 28, 2000 03:08:16 PM
When I first came to live in south Texas I became friends with a women with two small boys.
She asked me to go keep her company at the older boys baseball games.I went twice..
I was so disgusted at the way the parents yelled at the children and not just thier own children. They were also rude and confrontational with each other.
It was sickening. How can you teach these kids that ,while nice, winning isn't everything ? The adults obviously didn't feel that way.
If I were in charge of these games I might have been tempted to turn them into coach pitch no win games. Not because of the kids but the adults and the abuse the kids had to take when they didn't do well.
If the child was called a "loser" and a "dummy" in front of strangers imagine what they get at home after losing a game.
posted on May 5, 2001 05:07:03 AM
My folks never did the Santa/easter bunny thing but they did leave a quarter under my pillow for the tooth.
I don't think it is worth argueing how much.
But for $5 bucks a lot of the kids I knew would have been at each other with pliers to pull them out.
I think my allowance stopped about 6th grade.
By then I was doing weeding and triming but my folks would not let me do mowing. I also had a business selling worms to passing fishermen.
I also sold cut flowers door to door. I had had my own little garden for a couple years
and that year my Mom was surprised I planted a lot of flowers also. She had no idea I would make arrangements and sell them in the next neighborhood over where people had more money.
By the time I was 14 or 15 I was making more money over the summer than my Uncle who was a collage grad and worked for big companies. It sort of irritated him. Women really like to hire out window washing.
I did real well with auto detailing. I did flat rate $25 a car and did a super job. When I waxed I would even go in the trim with Q-tips. I got so well known I had to take a cab to some of my jobs further away. Cabbies are a little put off by a kid with a big bucket and brushes, and I did not tip real well.
When we traveled I bought fireworks but not to use. I would break open the packs and resell the individual pieces when I got home.
These kids today have a lot more opportunity to work now. People want services more and the internet is age blind. I can't imaigine a kid having to go flip burgers unless they just have zero imaigination.
posted on May 5, 2001 08:07:00 AM
Thanks M I am blind - sorry your sweetie is not back. I feel bad a couple times I told of bad experiences I had with cops but they triggered others who were really nasty about all cops just blanket condeming them all. I would not be surprised if that was more than he could listen to.
posted on May 5, 2001 11:59:47 AMGravid: Naw, X-man loved a good discussion. He just felt he needed to spend more time with his family, rather than on the boards, that's all.
P.S. I think I was too much woman for him, anyway.
posted on May 5, 2001 01:46:40 PM
Muriel - Know yourself I say. If only there was a culture that allowed polyandry you could marry a matched set of twins to keep you busy. Wouldn't that be interesting? Moslems are allowed multiple wives but not husbands - sexist no?
My kids feel the same way.
Joint birthdays, joint teachers, being called "the girls", and so forth...a price paid, but worth it, as the experience of having anyone so very close to you is extraordinary.