posted on May 21, 2002 04:32:51 PM new
I'm flustered and peeved...because
It seems a shame that other sites besides Ebay & Yahoo, cannot get a "large" user base.
I don't mind sharing "profits"...my big pet peeve, is having to shell out those listing fees. Seems so unprofessional to me.
See if you can follow me here(I'm not the best at explaining things, sorry)
You have:
100 items cost $2.50 each total= $250.00(value doesn't matter, cuz if you returned the items, you'd only get the $250 back that you paid for them)
a) You list all 100 items at Ebay to start at $5 each. 100 x 30¢=$30.00(whether they sell or not)
b) First go around, 20 sell for $5 each(not bad, 20% sell rate & doubling your investment on those that sold)
c) FVF on $100 is 5.25%=$5.25
========================
{{{I feel a 20% sell rate(sell 20 out of 100 listed) is about right, for this time of year at Ebay}}}
========================
So...let's recap:
$100.00(amount you received)
-$35.25(amount you paid Ebay to list all items)
-$50.00($2.50 x 20 sold)
=======================
$14.75(your profit if payments were not subject to fees-paypal,billpoint, etc)
So, you now have:
$200.00(your inventory of 80 remaining items x their cost of $2.50)
+$14.75(your profit)
==========================
$214.75
Ok...each of those items were different so you had to list each separately.(lot of work/time)
You started out with $250 in items
You ended up with $214.75
$250
-$214.75
========
$ 35.25(you are out this amount if you stop now and return your remaining inventory to the store you bought it from.)
And you are NOT getting reimbursed for your time spent listing those 100 items.
==========================
Those li'l listing fees can steal your profit before you know it!
Does this upset anybody other than me?????
I'm sure it does. So why can't we sellers, agree to go "somewhere", "anywhere", TOGETHER to pump up an auction site that only has FVF???? I don't mind even a 15% fvf...cuz it is only on items that SELL.
I do not think we all should get something for nothing, I just think that the medium we sell on should not take advantage of us. I will gladly share profits, but I cannot afford to spend all my profit on listing fees.
If you have (1) item that is in demand, the list fee might be worth it. But for the majority, that is not the case.
posted on May 21, 2002 05:28:47 PM new
But, your chances of getting bids and sales are *much* greater on eBay than any other auction venue ... it's worth the risk (i.e. listing fees).
posted on May 21, 2002 06:35:36 PM new
Its2cheap,
AMEN
RB,
I have sold alot on ebay that only gets one bid and I am lucky to break even
Yahoo would be the obvious choice, if they did away with the listing fees, but they also have to change their attitude towards sellers.
As you know, I am not a seller and I do all of my current bidding and buying on eBay. Without too many exceptions, the items I bid on receive numerous bids, and sometimes it goes right down to the wire.
And, these are not "one-of-a-kind" items - there are many listings for the type of stuff I collect.
I haven't seen many sellers (of the stuff I buy) backing off, or dropping/raising their prices. For the most part, they are what eBay would call "power sellers" with feedback in the 10's of thousands.
Just to add, that *if* I ever decide to start selling again I would sooner never sell a thing than go back to Yahoo just so they can kick me in the a$$ again ... the idiots that run that venue are simply very bad actors.
[ edited by RB on May 21, 2002 07:31 PM ]
[ edited by RB on May 21, 2002 07:32 PM ]
posted on May 21, 2002 07:36:49 PM new
The successful sellers on eBay could see the listing and other fees double or triple and no even notice. You know why? Because the fees are relatively small. How do they easily cover the fees? Look at a bunch of auctions on eBay. You will see that the majority of sellers overcharge the buyers for s/h by fairly substantial amounts. These overcharges cover the eBay fees and allow them to have several items that do not sell.
Complaining about the small fees that allow sellers to make a lot of money is an non-event. It's the little sellers and housewife's that try to clean out a junk drawer and do not get bids because the items are unwanted that complain. eBay is THE BIG SHOW. Rookies and amaueters do not belong there until they have perfected the art of selling on eBay. The other online auction sites are for these sellers to hope to make a sale or two no and then.
The hardest part of selling on eBay is finding the items to sell that can be sold at a decent profit. The easy part is the small eBay fees that allow all of this to happen.
posted on May 21, 2002 08:34:54 PM new
Actually, the hardest part about eBay is trying to filter through their volumes of "rules" and keep up with the changes
posted on May 21, 2002 10:15:33 PM new
It is a royal pain to list on eBay. They have made it so complicated that Einstein would have had trouble listing if he were still with us today.
For buyers it is a real treasure hunt as there are many different categories that any single item can be listed under. Often, that situation can bring a nice find at a great price to a saavy shopper that has honed his searching skills and found a misplaced or misspelled item. With almost eight million listings there are more than a few of these items to find.
posted on May 21, 2002 10:39:14 PM new
It is a royal pain to list on all these small sites.
I spent a lot of time a while back supporting the smaller sites, Carnaby, SYI, ePier, etc. Never made back near the money it took to set them up.
Most sites do not have a Bulk Loader either. I would consider maybe trying some again as I have with TNA but they can not bulk load my auctions at all.
I use Auction Tamer at least SYI supports that format but since I never make sales there I do not bother there either.
eBay #1
Yahoo #2
My next paln to try Ubid. I have not seen anyone here comment on it. Anyone tried it?
posted on May 22, 2002 04:37:42 AM new
Its2cheap & deichen,
The only problem with a site without listing fees is they attrack all of the crap auctions (Mainly commons sports cards). Yahoo did the exact correct thing by instituting listing fees. When they had high listing fees, they drove 99% of the crap auctions away. Then when they reduced the fees to next to nothing, they kept those crap auctions away. Now the sell through rate is better than ever and with very little fees involved. If you don't believe me about crap auctions, look at Bidville. That is where the majority of the crap went after Yahoo began listing fees. You want to talk about a corrupt site. If you like crap sales, go to bidville. If you like to make profits, Ebay and Yahoo are the way to go.
Also its2cheap,
Have you tried to post your items at a higher price? You may realize better profits if you can get the sales at higher prices.
posted on May 22, 2002 03:30:04 PM new
It seems that some have missed the point here.
I deal in mostly one of a kind items. If I list "x" amount and get a 20% sell-thru rate, I will lose money in the long run at Ebay, during the off peak months.
If I start the items at a higher amount, then folks could and would deal with a different seller.
My point is......at the 20% sell thru rate, which seems typical right now, those .30 list fees over and over till all the items sell, is the pits!
If I listed 10,000 items it would be the same thing.
Yes...some bargains like items with a rebate that cost you -0- would help your "fees" situation. BUT....if all ya had to worry about was FVFs of ANY percentage, you would make money. Maybe not get rich, but you would make a true profit.
I disagree that most sellers who left yahoo were "crap" dealers. Many vintage jewelry sellers left as well as many other types of sellers. And alot of folks still have a bad feeling about Yahoo.
If I don't agree with listing fees, does that make me a dealer in "crap" merchandise?
No, not at all.
I may be no rocket scientist, but I have been an accountant and ran a successful family business for over 20 years.(I just retired in 2001).
And as a buyer, I despise an auction that lures me in with low price, no reserve, just to find out the s/h is unbelievably high.
Or the auctions that start at $5, you go in and apparently there's a reserve of like $300.
I'm just an honest seller out to earn some blow money for my hobbies. I list my items at a bargain, offer a guarantee, and charge the least amount of shipping that I can.
With listing fees at Ebay, I'm gonna lose money. Especially if I figure in the paypal or billpoint figures.
Am I missing something here?????
Do sellers realize more than 50% profit on each of their items?
IF SO......post the math and teach this old dog a new trick. Please!!!!!
PS.....thanks for all the views, I enjoy finding out how others feel about stuff.
posted on May 22, 2002 03:57:53 PM new
A seller sells a widget and makes his 50% on the item. It costs exactly $1.58 to mail the item ( excluding gas to go to the post office, etc ). Let's say that the total eBay fees are $1.00 . The seller now charges the bidder $3.00 s/h . He has made an additional 42 cents and paid all of his eBay fees with the overcharge on s/h.
As a note, when you receive a package from UPS there is no way to see what the shipper paid to mail the item on the box. The post office is working on a similar system that will shield the postage amount from the buyer.
The eBay fees are a non-event when the seller tacks a little extra on the s/h fees.
posted on May 23, 2002 05:08:54 PM new
On larger items you may have to weigh the box too. It will be a blessing when the post office has the shielded postage amounts.
posted on May 23, 2002 11:23:54 PM new
its2cheap, this is all just my personal opinion and you can take it or leave it, whatever.
If you want to make any money on eBay you've got to deal in merchandise that is going to sell for over $5, plain and simple. An occasional $5 sale is great, but you had best not pay over $1.00 for it. Otherwise, as you just found out, you lose big time.
New merchandise isn't where the money is. It's in collectibles--old, hard to find stuff.
My inventory consists of new in the box collectibles that include Precious Moments, Maude Humphrey Bogart, Enesco pieces, and whatever else I can find that's name brand. This is not where I make good money, though. I take into account that I can buy this stuff in quantity, therefore take one 'stock' picture and use the same listing over and over. Also, it's a snap to package so doesn't take much time there.
But, my real money comes from old unique collectibles and hard to find books. These are cases where I can pay from 10 cents to $10 for something and turn around and sell them for between $10 and $100 each.
I don't sell all the time--this is a hobby that I do pretty well during the good traffic seasons which happens to coincide with when we need money the most so it works out well for me.
As a suggestion for where to list the merchandise you have, I would give Yahoo! a try. Their listing fee is much lower although I've personally never been able to justify the time it takes to list my auctions with the low sell-thru rate I get there.
However, on the other hand I know sellers who do far better on Yahoo! than they do on eBay.
I'm with you on one thing for sure, and that's the idea of a mass of sellers leaving and settling on one auction site. The problem is there are hundreds of different sites and no group of people is going to agree on any one site.
I don't agree with the statement (can't recall by who) about all of the small sites being over-run with sports cards. That just isn't the case. There are a few that have quite a selection, and that's simply because the sellers have created themselves a niche there.
From what I've seen of the sellers who do succeed on the smaller sites is that they've managed to create a presence at those sites. They bring their past customers with them and eventually end up getting more. They probably spend as much time promoting their auctions as they do listing and selling. Granted, there is a lot of junk listed on some of the smaller sites, but I've also found some great treasures in my hunts.
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posted on May 24, 2002 08:26:53 AM new
I agree with WallyPog that your best bet at selling stuff on eBay is hard-to-find collectibles. Some new merchandise is okay if it was not mass produced and appeals to certain collectors. The selling items for more than $5 is good advice and it should have been very inexpensive when you bought it if you do sell it that low.
I go to a local library sale a few times a year and on the last day of the sale you can fill a shopping bag of great books for only $3. That's works out to be about 30 books or a dime a pop. You hope for a few $7-$10 and several $5 books. I have seen a lot of sellers put every book up for $1 and they hope for the best knowing the books only cost a dime each. These sellers have helped ruin the book sales on eBay. For instance, a seller finds a great book and researches that book on eBay and finds one current and one completed copy of the book that sold or is selling in the $1-$2 range.
Hard-to-find collectibles can be very profitable and of course difficult to find. If you go fishing a lot sooner or later you'll land some great catches though. I recently bought seven games at a flea market from a seller for $17. Most of the games were these large boxes of Warhammer 40,000 mythical army men type things but I knew from cruising eBay that these items had an excellent chance of going well at auction. There were all some bookshelf games of the same type of magical dungeons & dragons caliber and I knew those were very popular as well. I placed all the items up on eBay and was very pleased to get a total of $498 for the seven different items and most buyers paid by PayPal or BillPoint within 2 days.
posted on May 28, 2002 11:45:18 PM new
Rob, thank you very much! I completely forgot about SYI's referral system, LOL. One of these days I'll have to get busy listing there so I can use it.
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posted on June 1, 2002 07:15:31 AM new
New collectibles AND old collectibles can sell extremely well at ebay. You have to pick the right ones and make sure your auctions are better than your competitors. You can also pick a product which is popular but has little competition. You can do that with research.
If a person is going to stick with a product that is consistently not selling at ebay, chances are high that the product will sell-through even worse at an alternative auction site unless a person is chat-board oriented and can make friends to sell to. But really, who will sustain a living on that?
My question is why do people continue to try selling unsuccessful products? If it's a hobby or it doesn't matter if you make money, then fine. Choose an alt site. But remember that many people flock to alternative auction sites because they just haven't learned yet how to be extremely profitable at ebay and they don't think the fees are worth it because they haven't really learned how to sell.
Sure the fees are high but if you're selling 25,000 a month or 10,000 or even 2,000, it can certainly be worth it. Pick products where you build the fees into the cost of your product. You can't pay for cheaper more effective advertising, especially if you develop a repeat customer base and sell on the backend too.
[ edited by Selling2Profit on Jun 1, 2002 07:17 AM ]
posted on June 1, 2002 07:56:32 AM new
Right on post. The vast majority of the sellers at the small low traffic sites are only hobbyists selling to get some extra cash. The can set fairly high prices and wait and wait and wait. Many are selling only for the social reasons of the mesage boards.That's why the prices are consistently higher than eBay as JimTaxi pointed out in his 'eBay vs Bidville' thread a while back.
I've been selling on Ebay for about 2 1/2 years but I too am tired of all the fees. I found a site that is free to list and no final value fee.
I signed up and listed almost 30 items. Well, I've been there for about 5 mos. and have only sold 6 items but 3 were deadbeats and 1 was for this "Monopoly Money" that they give you when you sign up.
So in 5 mos I actually sold only 2 items. There are plenty of sellers there but no buyers so I came back to Ebay. I'm still looking though so keep passing on the names of any sites you hear of......thanks.....pixie
posted on June 12, 2002 07:34:34 AM new
Hi there..long time lurker, first time poster here.
Lanefamily -- since you asked about Ubid i thought i'd share my knowledge with you and anybody else who might be interested. I have done some selling there and here are my thoughts:
First of all, if you sell anything but electronics i wouldn't waste my time there. Ubid has other categories but their focus is electronics and 90% of the people who come to buy are looking for electronics. The big sellers in particular are computers, computer equipment, and office machines such as faxes.
Listing is free...the only thing they charge for is if you want to set a reserve (5 cents, refundable if it sells). They only charge an FVF and it isn't any more than you'd pay on eBay.
I do NOT recommend doing $1 no reserve auctions there...you will not get enough bids to get the selling price you want because there just aren't as many people there as on eBay, unless the item is EXTREMELY hot right now and there's no one else selling it.
Setting a reserve will also drastically reduce your amount of bidders, the Ubid crowd HATES reserves. A higher starting bid doesn't seem to scare too many of them away though.
Disadvantages of Ubid:
1) No way to edit/cancel auctions once they've started.
2) No way to format your auctions. No HTML, only the generic form you use to create new items. So all listings look exactly the same.
3) The system is sometimes glitchy. Sometimes you don't get the EOA notice, and it leaves you with no way to contact the winner, as their contact info isn't readily available as it is on eBay. Had this happen maybe 4 times out of a few dozen auctions.
4) Customer service is slow. Both times i had a tech problem it took nearly a week just to get a 'we're reviewing your message' email. One took several weeks before sending a final reply..one never came at all.
5) Depending on what you sell, you'll be wiped out by large company competitors or by Ubid itself. Ubid has two different types of sellers: the 'consumer exchange' people (individuals to low volume businesses) and the 'Preferred Partner' (larger businesses who list in bulk). Ubid also sells a lot of it's own products on the site as well. Ubid and Preferred Partner Auctions are always listed first...so if you're selling something Ubid or a Preferred Partner is also selling you'll be at the bottom of the listings. To qualify for Preferred Partner status you must be a registered business that warehouses their own products and has done so for at least a year. They also require trade references if i remember correctly.
Ok this is getting long so i'll stop here. There's still more i can tell you, so if you have a question feel free to post it here.
posted on June 12, 2002 09:00:52 AM new
Nice post iliachas. I learned a lot about UBID just now. You could say it is almost a niche or specialty auction site.
I agree with your appraisal of reserve auctions. The most foolish thing that online auctions do is allow the trick-appearing reserve auctions. I wish there was an opinion poll on their use so the sites could get rid of the dreaded reserve auctions.
posted on June 12, 2002 11:25:02 AM new
Thanks for the compliment bidsbids!
I thought i'd explain the feedback system at Ubid while i'm at it. There IS a system but it's completely pointless in my opinion. They use a 'star' rating system, i.e., your buyer can rate you on a stars system and your overall rating is the average of all your ratings. It's kind of displayed like the ratings on Yahoo! Stores. Nobody uses it that i have seen...probably because i's too much trouble for a buyer OR seller to find where to leave the feedback. The site can be a little confusing.
I have however bought from Ubid a couple times, from the auctions put up by the Ubid company, and have had no problems. They may be a tad slow on shipping, but seeing as they have thousands of auctions a day it's not a surprise. They keep you well updated on the status of your purchase.
I can't give you an overview on the quality of sellers there as i've never bought from any of them. As for buyers, most of them are mature individuals. I've never had a problem with a buyer from there. Most have been very friendly and understanding. The place doesn't attract the large number of dorks eBay does.
Thank You for the info. LAst night as youposted this I was over there putting together a test auction. Trying to learn where all those fields are going to show up.
I launched it and see now where I made a few mistakes but correctable.
I will see about getting on board with them. Not sure if the exchange partner will do any good.
posted on June 15, 2002 03:36:42 PM new
When I first started selling I charged $2.00 S&H. The acutal postage was 55 cents. After a very nasty email in which a winner threatened to leave a negative FB I refunded the $1.45. It just wasn't worth the trouble! Instead I increased all my auctions by $2.00 and state "FREE SHIPPING!!" (add $3.50 for Priority) I find that I am making enough to cover auciton prices and postage (especally if they prefer Priority) and everyone is satisfied because winning bid is exactly what they pay.
posted on June 16, 2002 09:51:06 AM new
You get what you pay for. Settle with lower or no fees and then settle with low sell throughs which means a lot of wasted time.
I don't feel sellers should just pick a site and start selling. We should wait until one of the sites puts in place a good marketing effort to draw in buyers. By good I mean one that will entice buyers to check it out rather than showing they are just copycats.
posted on June 16, 2002 12:20:54 PM new
Results are what counts. Eighteen months ago the orphaned Yahoo Auction sellers were willing to spend a considerable investment in time and effort in little-known free online auctions such as ePier, Bidville and a few others. When many of those sellers became disillusioned about the poor sales on those sites they migrated to a new wave of low-cost online sites such as Carnaby.com . Most sellers are all migrated out and no longer want to try new sites because of the considerable effort that is often required. Most sellers are all promised out after the failure of such sites as Gegy.com and AuctionCow.com to deliver on their grand plans.
This is a very bad time to start a new online auction site in my opinion.
