spazmodeus
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posted on September 8, 2000 01:24:33 PM new
Bad enough that eBay is proposing to automatically give out our phone numbers in every single EOA notice, but now they are recommending that bidders pull our contact info and CALL US BEFORE BIDDING!!!
Can you imagine trying to get work done while fielding phone calls from people who may or may not bid on your items? From people who have nothing better to do all day but interrogate you about your items? (and for the first time ever, I truly pity the panty sellers -- can you imagine the inquiries they would get?)
And what if you pay to have an unlisted phone number? You like the idea of having that number going out in your end of auction notices, potentially to be added to telemarketing lists or maybe to be pencilled into some creep's little black book? Not only that, you like the idea of eBay going out of its way to encourage people to pull your contact info? It's happening right now, folks.
This is from the eBay Announcement Board (thanks to millicent_roberts for bringing this to my attention) :
--------------------------------------------------
*** Fraud - eBay Responsibility ***
We have been watching discussions on our boards concerning fraud. We definitely hear what you are saying and honestly care about your trading safety. eBay's success is dependent on the community's ability to successfully complete transactions. It is true that we have certain limitations in what we can do when fraud occurs. However, we have implemented and will continue to implement features and programs that help prevent fraud and help members should it occur. Fraud continues to be a very small percentage of the total transactions on eBay, however, we understand that when a user is impacted it does not seem to be a small percentage since it is 100% of that transaction.
Our existing programs and services can be used at various points throughout a transaction to guide users and enhance a safe transaction.
Prior to Bidding
- The Feedback Forum can be used to research a seller's past transactions and obtain a sense of how smooth they were. We strongly encourage members to not only review the FB rating but to research the details, e.g., number of negatives, number that are related to selling, comments, and types of items sold.
- Check to see if the seller is ID Verified (uses personally identifiable information to help confirm that a person is who they claim to be). Some sellers use this feature to compensate for a low FB count. This feature identifies who the seller is, but does not address their reputation as a seller like feedback does.
- Request and review Contact Information to determine the location of the member and even contact the member by phone before placing a bid.
- Buyers can use one of our recommended authentication and grading services to evaluate an item before bidding on it.
After the Transaction
- i-Escrow can be used to facilitate a smooth exchange between buyer and seller.
- Should a dispute arise, we recommend using SquareTrade, an independent, neutral third party that can help resolve the issue.
- In the cases of actual fraud, free Insurance is available up to $200.
- Payment options abound that can also protect additional levels of protection. Protection against loss or frauds is generally available with credit card transactions. eBay Online Payments provides members with payment options that offer these protections. Learn more about payment options on eBay by going to the following location:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/buyerguide/paymenttips.html
We are working on changes that will allow us to remove anonymity on eBay and other changes that will allow us to keep unsavory members off of eBay once they are suspended. We will continue to work on additional safeguards with an emphasis on prevention.
--------------------------------------------
There's more to the announcement, including the names of eBay sellers who have been prosecuted for fraud, but it's the portions above that most concern me.
What I see happening is, eBay is taking a lot of flak for the fraud they have allowed to occur on their site. Now, in a bootstrap effort to rehabilitate their public image, they want to strip the sellers of all rights to privacy.
I think it's entirely unacceptable. Does the OAUA have a stance on this? How about the MAM folks? What about the rest of you?
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mauimoods
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posted on September 8, 2000 01:35:52 PM new
This SUCKS. If I wanted folks to call me on the phone BEFORE bidding, then I would list my number in the description. Im surprised nobody else is posting here, with their indignations.....humph!
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Meya
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posted on September 8, 2000 01:38:26 PM new
The day eBay starts putting my home phone number in their EOA emails is the day I pull my registration.
On the other hand, EOA emails have been rather scarce lately, so perhaps there isn't much to worry about. The way they seem to manage their database, the merge wouldn't work correctly and phone numbers would be for the wrong sellers.
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victoria
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posted on September 8, 2000 01:41:54 PM new
I would have posted how bad an idea I personally think this is, but then one of the posters, who just love everything EBAY does, would come and tell me how wrong I am, and how good this is for EBAY.
And I just don't need to hear it.
But I do think it's WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.
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Ghostlypresents
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posted on September 8, 2000 01:43:02 PM new
I thought it was against policy to pull someone's personal information at ebay unless you were a bidder of that persons auction(s). If so then why are they telling people to do such things? Kind of a contradiction don't you think?
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tegan
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posted on September 8, 2000 01:45:22 PM new
Pardon my French but ....That Bites!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have had only one customer call me since I started and he is a very nice gentlemen that buys my paintings regularly.
But even so, I really don't want EVERYONE to call me.
Please ebay..rethink this. Maybe tell them to call if there is a problem. (although I don't really like this either) There are to many nutcases out there to be giving out my phone number.
If you give it out before they bid what your saying is your going to give anyone who asks my personnal number.They don't have to bid after they get it.
How would you at ebay feel if you had to give everyone who listed bought or even thought about listing on ebay your personnal number. They are after all customers.
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guyuellas
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posted on September 8, 2000 01:45:33 PM new
A thread has already been going on about this and y'all need to re-read the announcement board. I believe it recommends to call if we need to and I'm pretty sure folks would not call unless they were considering an high priced item.
Myself I do check out all sellers before I bid by requesting their user info and checking there feedback and also checking their winning bidders feedback for shilling and other things.
I use the user info to check out that the area code matches with the zip code, town and state they live in. Many times scammers don't give accurate user info even power sellers.
If I get ready to bid on a high priced item I may give a call to make sure the phone number is on the up and up and verifiy the address.
You'd be surprised how many give fake info in their user accounts and when you make physical contact they are not that person.
Just like you would do business on a local level you should check out businesses on the internet before buying from them.
And if it means making a phone call than so be it.
It is beyone me why anyone would bid on someone else's auction without checking them out first. Doesn't make much sense to me and not a very good business practice.
Just like some sellers spend all their waking moments monitoring their auctions to see who is bidding, a bidder should do the same on sellers.
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spazmodeus
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posted on September 8, 2000 01:46:46 PM new
They're throwing the sellers to the wolves, Meya. And judging by the tone of what I've read so far, it sounds like they plan to go ahead with it, but are testing the waters to determine just how much resistance they're going to encounter.
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guyuellas
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posted on September 8, 2000 01:47:42 PM new
Bad enough that eBay is proposing to automatically give out our phone numbers in every single EOA notice, but now they are recommending that bidders pull our contact info and CALL US BEFORE BIDDING!!!
********
Even if they did so what! We can request user info now and get it all they would be doing is saving us a step if we needed it by getting it ourselves.
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alchemy830
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posted on September 8, 2000 01:48:29 PM new
The auction format is the only way I'd ever engage in selling anything, precisely because I don't have to tolerate the usual up close and personal weirdness, blathering, etc. (e-mail weirdness exists, but thankfully it's rare).
The day eBay starts putting my home phone number in their EOA emails is the day I pull my registration.
Agreed, Meya
Carmen
*******************
Practice random acts of intelligence & senseless acts of self-control.
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abingdoncomputers
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posted on September 8, 2000 01:50:12 PM new
Silly me. I thought eBay would make a nice ONLINE addition to my business.
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spazmodeus
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posted on September 8, 2000 01:50:53 PM new
Speak of the devil, Victoria ...
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guyuellas
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posted on September 8, 2000 01:51:50 PM new
The day eBay starts putting my home phone number in their EOA emails is the day I pull my registration.
***********
What difference does it make we can go to user info's and get it before we think of bidding on anyone auctions.
IT'S ONLY GOOD BUSINESS SENSE TO CHECK out who you are considering bidding from just like it's good business sense for sellers to check their bidders out before an auction ends so they don't have problems later.
GET REAL FOLKS! eBay is a business place for serious and honest business people and we should be more than willing to allow others to check us out before they sell or bid from us.
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Crystalline_Sliver
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posted on September 8, 2000 01:54:11 PM new
Pardon the sexual inuendo here...
"Gee, guess I have to change my Home Phone to my pager number, and set my pager to vibrate."
:\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
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Shoshanah
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posted on September 8, 2000 01:54:59 PM new
Since all my calls go to voice mail on third ringindingy, I guess that puts me out of business... I am not going to start returning calls all over the country(ies), spending big money, to satisfy BIDDER's curiosity...I too will un-register if this becomes mendatory... I think enough is ENOUGH, already...
********************
Shosh
http://www.oldandsold.com/cgi-bin/auction.cgi?justdisp&Rifkah
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/rifkah/
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dejavu
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posted on September 8, 2000 01:55:59 PM new
Spaz~ I think you are right but we DON'T have the support board to take it out on anymore. The new support board doesn't even have a place to type in your request like the other message boards. Maybe there is some abra~ca~da~ba, beats the *$#& out of me!
Personally I just went & changed my contact number to my cell voice mail number. I am SICK of Ebay's Nazi tactics. We've been telling them for YEARS how to prevent fraud. Did they EVER listen NO. F*&$ I am EVEN a VERIFIED user who paid the FREAKIN $5 to be verified. Howm much more do they want?
I AM NOT THE PROBLEM BUT THE BUTT HEAD I JUST PURCHASED FROM IS!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE HIDES BEHIND MUTLIPLE user accounts and "employees". Employees my TOOKIE!
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guyuellas
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posted on September 8, 2000 01:56:24 PM new
I thought it was against policy to pull someone's personal information at ebay unless you were a bidder of that persons auction(s). If so then why are they telling people to do such things? Kind of a contradiction don't you think?
**********
NO IT ISN'T. I've been on eBay since '96 a few months after they started and we have always been encouraged to check out who we do business with.
It's not just eBay....... any place where you do business at you would want to check out who you are doing business with. It would be suicide business wise if we didn't.
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spazmodeus
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posted on September 8, 2000 01:59:32 PM new
guy,
My feedback is over 1000 now. THAT tells people that I am serious and honest. What my customers have said about me speaks far more powerfully than any assurance I could give over the phone.
The feedback system has worked for years. Now suddenly it's not good enough? That's crap. This is just eBay trying to bail themselves out of a sticky PR situation at OUR expense.
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smw
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posted on September 8, 2000 02:00:54 PM new
May be too late already. This morning at 5:00 AM a bidder called me. First call I have had in almost 3 years. She was apologetic when I explained that it was 5:00 AM and I would call her back.
I called her back and she is a new buyer who wanted to know what kind of packing material I used and if I double boxed china. She has a friend who bought china on ebay and the dishes arrived broken. She wanted to make sure the same thing wouldn't happen if she bid on china.
This could have easily been an email question. I have changed my telephone number on eBay to a line that is hooked up to an answering machine with the ringer turned off.
So we can look forward to the possibility of having our telephone numbers included in EOA's and ebay encouraging bidders to call before they bid.
I suppose next bidders will be pissed if we all don't have 800 numbers.
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guyuellas
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posted on September 8, 2000 02:02:43 PM new
they want to strip the sellers of all rights to privacy.
****************
What rights are being violated!! When we each registered on eBay from the beginning back in late 95 til now these same rules have been in place.
It would be fun to do a survey and find out from every eBay registrant as a seller and buyer if they read all the rules before signing on. I'll bet we'd get probably 94% that did not.
If we all of a sudden realize that these measures have always been in place and don't agree with them than we need to move on to a place where there is no security or business ethics in place and see how much more screaming we will be doing and yell, SCAM, RIPPED OFF, ETC.
GET REAL FOLKS you either are a business person willing to be protected or not. If not than perhaps you do need to go do your business elsewhere.
BUSINESS IS BUSINESS! Deal with it folks.
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spazmodeus
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posted on September 8, 2000 02:08:41 PM new
When we each registered on eBay from the beginning back in late 95 til now these same rules have been in place.
That's right, guy. The same rules. Now they are trying to CHANGE those rules. That's the problem. Get it?
Nobody's complaining about the old rules. We're complaining about what's being done to them.
Lower your eBay pom poms for a minute and maybe you'll be able to understand what we're talking about here.
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alchemy830
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posted on September 8, 2000 02:09:22 PM new
guyuellas -
IT'S ONLY GOOD BUSINESS SENSE TO CHECK out who you are considering bidding from just like it's good business sense for sellers to check their bidders out before an auction ends so they don't have problems later.
Ebay provides a forum for checking out who you're bidding from - the feedback forum is a very good indicator of the reliability of a seller. Granted, a great feedback profile is no guarantee of a seller's legitimacy, but then again, neither is a phone call. Most of us have completed a great many ebay transactions without being scammed, all without phoning a seller first. Truth be told, I've been dissatisfied with many more in-person transactions than auction transactions.
What difference does it make we can go to user info's and get it before we think of bidding on anyone auctions.
I'm not necessarily opposed to someone calling me, depending on the reason; but putting phone numbers in EOAs simply makes it easier for the oddballs with nothing better to do to contact us personally. I don't want that to be easy. If someone needs to phone me, I want to know they've requested my information; and the simple fact that I would receive notification of their request from ebay encourages people to be selective about doing this. That's exactly the way I want it to stay. Also, like most of us, I ebay from home - I don't want that number indiscreetly broadcast.
IMHO, if one isn't comfortable doing business online without a phone call, perhaps the auction format isn't an advisable way to make purchases.
Carmen
*******************
Practice random acts of intelligence & senseless acts of self-control.
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dave_michmerhuizen
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posted on September 8, 2000 02:10:17 PM new
I'm suprised we haven't heard from radh about this yet. OTOH, given what I know about her feelings on this topic, it's probably killed her outright. (sigh)
ebay: [email protected]
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Shoshanah
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posted on September 8, 2000 02:14:47 PM new
Thanks, guyuellas...I'll send you my phone bill, for all the phone calls returned OVERSEAS and across the US. 
I can just imaging being called at 4AM, because the caller never thought to synch calling time with my state... And all caller wants to know is if my ONE OF A KIND Tiffany Lamp comes in different color and size...
********************
Shosh
http://www.oldandsold.com/cgi-bin/auction.cgi?justdisp&Rifkah
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/rifkah/
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kitsch1
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posted on September 8, 2000 02:19:02 PM new
Feedback is a great indicator. I remember when Purseglove said it wasnt, but I've always considered him kind of a buffoon.
I DONT want my phone number going out to every Tom Dick and LooneyToons!
I DONT want to pay the price for a small handful of scam artists!
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/[email protected]/
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cariad
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posted on September 8, 2000 02:22:20 PM new
I'm okay with this policy; however,I want to be able to have the same assurances and protection before someone bids on my items. Therefore ebay must find a way to get me the user name of every potential bidder who views my auctions so I can pull their contact info; especially anyone who puts it on their watch list. I want to be able to verify, heck I may even want to call and ask them why they only put it on watch; how seriously are they thinking about it, why didn't they bid; any constructive criticism they want to give me regarding my ad or description? I can find out how long they usually take to pay; what method;where I might have to ship; yada, yada, yada. Works for me........NOT!
cariad
Noah's last words: "damn woodpeckers"
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smw
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posted on September 8, 2000 02:25:53 PM new
guyuellas:
To take this logic further do you think I should have a dedicated business telephone number and be available 24 hours a day. Or if not have a service that takes messages or answers questions 24/7? Do you think it is OK to call a business at 5:00 AM with the expectation that someone will answer your question?
I think you are missing the point. The point being that this is an Internet based business model. The operative words being Internet based. Unless I have missed something the generally accepted method of communication on the Internet is email. Telephone numbers for Internet based businesses are sometimes,(not always), available if there is a problem with email communication.
A buyer can call me. I have no objection to a call if there is a real problem. I object to eBay encouraging telephone calls as a first choice rather than an option if email communication fails.
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spazmodeus
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posted on September 8, 2000 02:26:25 PM new
putting phone numbers in EOAs simply makes it easier for the oddballs with nothing better to do to contact us personally. I don't want that to be easy. If someone needs to phone me, I want to know they've requested my information; and the simple fact that I would receive notification of their request from ebay encourages people to be selective about doing this. That's exactly the way I want it to stay. Also, like most of us, I ebay from home - I don't want that number indiscreetly broadcast.
Carmen,
Well said.
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Shoshanah
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posted on September 8, 2000 02:27:10 PM new
Well, no matter what the consequences, I just wrote to Ebay "Suggestions"...to tell them that is the WORST proposed move EVER, ever...and to start checking various chat boards, if they want to take a pulse on how this bright idea is coming down...
Will let you know if I get NARU'd.....Which is OK, since I don't list there anymore anyway...I was...waiting...
********************
Shosh
http://www.oldandsold.com/cgi-bin/auction.cgi?justdisp&Rifkah
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/rifkah/
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paisano
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posted on September 8, 2000 02:29:25 PM new
I am touched that Ebay is so concerned with fraudulant sellers. What about buyers who write bad checks??? Or cancel a pending Paypal payment after you ship the goods?
Ralph
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