posted on September 9, 2000 08:37:08 PM
abingdoncomputers:
Your absolutely right. Someone a little while ago made reference to me living in Italy...and you know something..I can't relate to a lot of your concerns. I'm in no way talking bad about the States, but for the last serveral years I've been able to live in little fear. While Milan and other big cities have moderate crime, I have been priveliged to live in a virtually crime free environment. I'm being completely serious here, I forget some of the concerns I use to have when I lived in D.C.
posted on September 9, 2000 08:45:52 PM
And how many new bidders will be scared away from eBay when they find out that their phone number is going to go out in every EOA?
posted on September 9, 2000 08:48:29 PM
I don't know, most of us already give out our home address. I would think more people would be unsure of that rather than a phone number.
I envy your relative lack of crime there. The US, IMO, is the greatest nation on earth (nothing negative about Italy here, I'm probably just a little biased)... but crime is an area where we have some serious problems. And IMO for eBay to give out home phone numbers as a matter of course is completely irresponsible. Congrats on being able to live in a relatively crime-free environment.
posted on September 9, 2000 08:56:12 PM
I agree full heartly about the U.S. I'm serving in our military abroad to defend our interest. But, it is a different way of life. They say Europe is 20 years behind us and that's about right. My parents use to keep the doors and windows open all the time. I didn't want you to think I was bad mouthing our Country.
posted on September 9, 2000 08:56:51 PM
Personally I could careless if bidders want to phone, several have over the years, including 4 calls on Friday from a high bidder in CT.
BUT, I have had scores of high bidders that value their privacy, use PO boxes or work addys, and sometimes use an initial vs their first name.
I doubt like hell these buyers are going to want their phone number listed on every EOA email that eBay generates to the sellers.
Sending the phone #'s is a very dumb move on eBay's part.
Sending the street address off their contact info would be insane.
I want buyers who value their privacy to remain feeling comfortable when dealing over the web.
posted on September 9, 2000 09:48:12 PM
Please point me to where it says that ebay is may start giving out phone numbers with EOA emails. I must have missed it.
It's not in the original post here or the announcement on the ebay announcement board.
I personally don't care if someone calls me about my auctions. I used to sell from a web page before Ebay and people called me all of the time. No problem except when people forgot to take time zones into consideration.
People have had the option of pulling my contact info for a long time now and no one ever has.
If these announcements make (new) people more secure about bidding, then so be it. That's part of doing business......
posted on September 9, 2000 10:48:37 PM
You didn't tick me off.
I just wish people would read ALL the info regarding this subject before they decide what, if anything, this "new" feature could do with regards to the future of eBay.
IMO this is just as much a buyer issue, as it is a seller issue.
eBay is once again sticking their nose into something they know didley about. Most "buyers" will not want their phone # & street address sent out in every EOA, anymore than most sellers will.
This is simply a PR campaign to make themselves look like they actually give a rats rear about the fraud issues on their site.
A phone # attached to an end of auction email doesn't mean Jack in the big scheme of things, and it certainly won't help put an end to fraud.
posted on September 9, 2000 10:59:20 PM
I am a rather shy and reserved person and I deal with people much better "face to face" than over the telephone. I have received quite a few calls from bidders when they preferred to give me their CC # that way. I don't really mind it as it is all part of doing business.
I was put off guard earlier this year though when a bidder from the US called me after the auction and did not even realize I was in Canada. She had only heard of one city in Canada and when she said the name it happened to be my home town. She said that she was friends with a family there and when she mentioned their name it was my sister's first (very abusive) husband. She asked me if I knew them and I just said that I "kind of" remembered them but that I had been gone a long time. It was very strange as it is such a big world. If this conversation took place by email it would have been much easier to deal with. Over the phone I felt very uncomfortable.
When I accept CC payments I give my business telephone # in my EOA email but I don't think ebay has any right to do this.
posted on September 9, 2000 11:02:30 PM
>>"Most "buyers" will not want their phone # & street address sent out in every EOA, anymore than most sellers will."<<<
I can agree with that one. The buyer probably won't want their phone# sent out in EOA emails. As far as the street address goes... That's a non-issue, unless the buyer doesn't want the item. That information is exchanged anyway.
As a seller, I still don't see the big deal if the buyer has my phone #. Sorry..
posted on September 9, 2000 11:04:32 PM
HOW TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS NEW FEATURE AND MAKE TONS OF MONEY:
Start your own telemarketing firm. Register with ebaY using a fake phone number and bogus address. Immediately place hundreds of bids (bid as much as you want, as you won't actually be paying for any of these items). Then, when you start receiving the EOA notifications, start harvesting the phone numbers and addresses. Call all these folks and offer them...whatever you're selling. Sure, lots of people will hang up, and a few smart folks will figure out just WHERE you got their unlisted number. But you'll still make some sales! Better yet, simply sell the database of names, numbers and addresses which you've harvested! There is NO LIMIT to the number of times you can pull this off, as ebaY doesn't require anything in terms of a background check, and verification is optional (and since ebaY CHARGES you to be verified, no one will find it suspicious that you are NOT verified). Please send me a portion of the money you make on this scheme. I'm trusting you all to pay me!
OBVIOUSLY, I AM INTENDING THIS TONGUE IN CHEEK TO ILLUSTRATE A POINT. I realize this has been touched on in this thread, but I wanted to state it more strongly to illustrate just what a bad idea this EOA thing is.
posted on September 9, 2000 11:23:38 PMAs far as the street address goes... That's a non-issue, unless the buyer doesn't want the item. That information is exchanged anyway.
That's where you're wrong. How & where do you think eBay will gather the street adresses of all their registered users?
Take a wild guess.
Many of my customers request that the item be shipped to locations "other" than their homes. Some to a PO box, some to a work addy, and some to a family member, friend, or a business associates address.
Why do they do this? Take another wild guess.
eBay will be sending out the Contact Info that each & every user posted when they registered.
The result: A lot of seriously pissed off people [ie MY customers] when they find out this "new" feature was rolled out without their prior consent.
When was the last time eBay emailed you directly before they rolled out a "new" feature?
It doesn't matter what they post on the AB, most buyers on eBay probably don't even realize that board exists, let alone read it.
posted on September 9, 2000 11:24:26 PM
The main thing that alarms me about this crazy plan is not that I mind receiving calls from a bidder particularly, although I can't say I'm crazy about it; but one of the pluses of selling on ebay is working hours that suit me -- for instance, right now it's 2:30 a.m. The rest of the world has a tendency to believe there is a standard schedule people should keep (even my friends tend to think this): up with the sun, in bed after the news. So if I'm asleep at 10 a.m. or taking a nap at 6:30 p.m., I don't want to hear from a stranger about the widget I have for sale on ebay!!
Ebay is nuts with their insane ideas.
Anyway, I re-did my information and listed my computer line as my phone number -- when I'm not online, it has an answering machine. And I have a rural route address so hopefully no one can find me easily.
posted on September 9, 2000 11:45:05 PM
Also I know for a fact that bidders will call at all hours. We put the calling times in our EOA email but when we check our call display at work we find that bidders have tried to call us in the wee hours of the morning, forgetting that there is a time difference across the country.
posted on September 10, 2000 12:40:34 AM
>>"Many of my customers request that the item be shipped to locations "other" than their homes.?<<
Actually I was just thinking about that. You do have a point there.
I doubt that that they will actually go through with this but I can see the potential for some problems. I don't have an unlisted number but I can see why people would not want their unlisted numbers given out.
Ok, all things considered, they probably need to rethink and go about it differently.
If a seller is a fraud, they would have to be stupid to use their real contact information.
The best course of action would be for Ebay itself to verify a person's contact information. If they are going to make this an issue they should do the work themselves. If the information is valid then the person is probably legit. People with invalid information could be contacted and given a certain amount of time to update their informaion or be suspended.
posted on September 10, 2000 02:14:42 AMThe best course of action would be for Ebay itself to verify a person's contact information. If they are going to make this an issue they should do the work themselves. If the information is valid then the person is probably legit. People with invalid information could be contacted and given a certain amount of time to update their informaion or be suspended.
You just drew even more problems into the fray.
eBay has a verification system that if you pay a small fee, you can be verified as a legit user.
Also, this would meet even more opposition from both sides. eBay will contend that it's more work for them, and us users will raise hell for whatever reason it may be.
The only way you can get eBay to do what you propose is to systematiclly go and pull everyone's contact info and complain to safeharbor about the "discrepencies."
macandjan: Shotguns are just big boom, no blast. Why not a .50 cal Desert Eagle?
:\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
posted on September 10, 2000 07:04:35 AM
eBay should not be giving away any personal information about bidder or seller unless it is having to resolve a specific problem, and even then, there should be limits. At the present time, pulling contact information is generally recognized as a serious thing, not to do lightly -- and should remain so.
I had not seen the Town Square / remarq thread before, but as a buyer, this ticks me off that they are even considering it (and while I appreciate their asking people, how many people see the board, and how close attention does eBay pay to what people say? ).
While I usually do use my home address, eBay seems to fail to understand that, as some have already pointed out, people will request payment or the item to be sent to different addresses out of convenience, as a gift, or due to a specific privacy concern. People will, as said, drop first name to an initial to make it harder for a potential wierdo to dig out a phone number (depending on how many others in the same city have the same last name and initial, of course), use a P.O. Box, etc. So if eBay starts giving out a full course of this information, it can, even aside from other concerns, seriously screw up the buyer's or seller's intentions, because even if one of them immediately says, "Please send the item [or payment] *here*, NOT what was in the EOA," many will send to what's first listed, either out of speed, accident, or inability to read consistently.
Now in all fairness, I didn't see eBay announcing it is thinking of using a street address in the EOA (so why even give out the rest? -- it doesn't make much sense), but at this point, I can imagine them taking the varied responses, then saying, "Oh, maybe we should give it out too, let's try," so I think people are talking about that out of concern eBay may spring that on us too.
I still don't see how giving any of this out to various parties will put a dent in fraud, since a fraud can list the very information he intended to commit fraud with anyway, and can be quite smooth on the phone too.
On the opposite side, lack of a response on the phone (not present, sleeping, not good on the phone, deaf or nearly so, does not answer the home phone when strangers call, etc. ) may cast needless dispersions on an otherwise perfectly good seller (or bidder, I suppose). Some people on eBay use it because they can sell or bid online where it would be difficult or impossible for them to do it offline, due to shyness, mobility problems, hearing issues, or what have you.
It should remain the individuals' choice on what contact information to give out, and when. Obviously, some will have to be exchanged when a winning bid is made, but again, it will be both sides' choices on what to give.
Contact information should not be given out in the absence on a genuine problems such as NPB, non-shipping seller, or a prior NPB massively bidding on the same sellers' stuff, for example -- and even then, eBay should handle this more than the seller, IMO, to prevent additional funny business.
Wait, what the heck am I saying? It's eBay who is considering what to me looks like a different kind of "funny" business already, so how can I trust them now if they go through with it?
It is bad enough how many companies give away personal information, especially to direct marketers (who most people really don't care to hear from in the first place), with little or no notice. This is one thing I definitely call funny business.
Yes, the intent here is somewhat different, but it still amounts to the same thing: a company giving away my information and not giving me an in-context choice (again, I realize eBay has put up a board, but I'm talking if they were to go ahead with some or all of this). The out-of-context choice is, of course, not doing business with the offending company; and though as a buyer, I'm an indirect customer, I'm still this close to doing that.
If eBay goes ahead, they'll be leaving me behind.
Sorry for the length of my several notes on this thread, but I've never seen so many bad ideas, IMO, from eBay at once since the time they first let DoubleClick in.
----
What's being done in the name of direct marketing nowadays is crazy.
The above are all just my opinions, except where I cite facts as such.
Oh, I am not dc9a320 anywhere except AW. Any others are not me.
Is eBay is changing from a world bazaar into a bizarre world?
posted on September 10, 2000 08:01:41 AM
Does anybody know where eBay came up with this idea?
I mean, this is a NO-WIN idea, alla the way around.
I seriously wonder if some young whippersnapper in LAW ENFORCEMENT - who does NOT sell/buy online came up with this """"solution.""""
I never send my address until I receive the customer's ship-to addie.
A large part of the reason for this is not merely an effort to identify ASAP probable deadbeats, but to get the high bidder to AFFIRM their interest in following through with the purchase.
INTENT TO BUY, via the return email with name & shipping address.
Off that same thread on eBay, & posted by an eBay rep:
We are still at the stage of gathering your input. What do you think if we also enclose street addresses between winning bidders and sellers? Of course, As you mentioned that we need to guide bidders properly in EOAs so that the information would not be used for payment and shipping.
posted on September 10, 2000 08:06:54 AM
I simply do NOT understand HOW this idea prevents fraud?????????????
NO thief is gonna give accurate contact info.
But now fraudulent online auction buyers/sellers can have EASY access to honest people's RL info!
WHO IN GAWD'S NAME THOUGHT UP THIS IDEA??
Is this simply part of a grande marketing scheme by MailBoxesEtc to get a substantial number of eBay Users to rent post office boxes at MBE?????
Or did some NON-consumer at the FBI advise eBay that this """idea""" would be fraud-preventative.
CrazzzzzzzzY!
Many people who pull contact info simply do it to scare & terrorize the individual -- now these same scum can simply bid your auctions sky high and be deadbeat scum who have your RL info.
posted on September 10, 2000 08:07:34 AM
I've alerted all of the electronic privacy groups I can think of and sent them links to the threads here and at eBay. It wouldn't hurt if others did the same.
