It's definitely callous and non-caring to try to minimize the number of killed soldiers in Iraq by a comparrison to the number of traffic 'accident' fatalities in the city. It's a cruel and insensitive perspective from which to view a soldier killed in combat.
posted on May 30, 2005 08:37:01 AM new
Oh but helen....it is you the soldiers speak about when the say even thought they don't agree with the anti-war statements...they are fighting and dying so they can be said.
But THEY don't see me as the one/group of people who are AGAINST them, AGAINST their missions, AGAINST what THEY CHOSE to do....while they so loudly say 'we support the troops'. They don't see it as support at all. Just free speech...which is much different than supporting their choices.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 30, 2005 08:45:03 AM newI just try to bring you back to the realities of your constant over-exaggerations and into the realities of life/war.
When I post a link showing names and faces of the dead, you call it constant over-exaggerations into the realities of life/war??
Do you think these stats are made up and these aren't real people and that they may not really be dead?
It is reality.... that's my point. Nothing is exaggerated.
In exchange for our uniformed young people's willingness to offer the gift of their lives, civilian Americans owe them something important: It is our duty to ensure that they never are called to make that sacrifice unless it is truly necessary for the security of the country. In the case of Iraq, the American public has failed them; we did not prevent the Bush administration from spending their blood in an unnecessary war based on contrived concerns about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction. President Bush and those around him lied, and the rest of us let them. Harsh? Yes. True? Also yes. Perhaps it happened because Americans, understandably, don't expect untruths from those in power. But that works better as an explanation than as an excuse.
True, but it is also the destiny of we patriots, patriots of America the Ideal, as opposed to America the Ass-Kicker, to always be called unpatriotic when we oppose the unjustified use of power; and then be labeled the cause of defeat when we turn out to be correct.
Peace be with those who die in our name, and also to those who want them not to be sacrificed in vain.
posted on May 30, 2005 09:55:17 AM newit is you the soldiers speak about when the say even thought they don't agree with the anti-war statements...they are fighting and dying so they can be said.
Yes they are fighting and dying. They are fighting and dying for what America stands for - life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, freedom of speach etc. They fight for what America stands for good or bad. Anti-war statements are part of what they are fighting for just as well.
Linda, here is the Military Oath in case you are not familiar with it.
The Military Oath
The following oath is taken by all personnel inducted into the armed forces of the United States, as found in the US Code, Section 502.
I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
As you can see the military oath says a soldier will defend the Constitution - which freedom speach is part. A soldier can complain about the anti-war statements, but that is his/her opinion. In no way can he condone people from speaking their mind about it. The soldier joined the military on his own free will, took the oath and promised to do his job. He has to take the good with the bad.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on May 30, 2005 10:13:13 AM new
Now, since you know SO much could you explain what having a military record, or not, has to do with discussing the military?
Are you implying that only those with military records have freedom of speech?
posted on May 30, 2005 10:48:32 AM new
kiara...helen...logansdad....
What I'm saying, as you all already know...is THEY [our soldiers] don't see YOUR actions as support for them. They constantly speak of how it demoralizes them...and their missions.
So...twist away what I've previously said, here and in other threads. Won't change who REALLY support them and who doesn't.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 30, 2005 11:01:39 AM newkiara...helen...logansdad....
What I'm saying, as you all already know...is THEY [our soldiers] don't see YOUR actions as support for them. They constantly speak of how it demoralizes them...and their missions.
No..... I didn't already know. Are you sending my comments to all the soldiers in Iraq, Linda_k?? Who are "THEY"?
Please show me some "legitimate" links that have soldiers saying that Kiara is not supporting them because she's posting a link from CNN on Vendio Round Table showing the faces and names, etc of those who lost their lives in Iraq and that she's also saying how sad it is that they have been injured or killed.
posted on May 30, 2005 11:09:05 AM new
Good post, Kiara, but you know linduh knows every member of the armed services personally!
(Or did i just read that on a bathroom wall?)
Did you notice she didn't mention my name....I take it she agrees with me then
posted on May 30, 2005 11:18:56 AM newWhat I'm saying, as you all already know...is THEY [our soldiers] don't see YOUR actions as support for them. They constantly speak of how it demoralizes them...and their missions.
As a civilian each soldier is entitled to their opinions just like you and I. As a soldier in the line of duty, they have no right to condone what people say about this war. They are performing a job in which they took an oath to defend America and uphold its Constitution. If they do not like people speaking out against this war, then that is to bad. They are not doing their job and the military did not train them very well to deal with the bad that goes along with the good.
This would be the same as a doctor sworn to Hippocratic Oath and then did not want to perform abortion or give out birth control because it went against his moral values. When people are hired to do their job, they are hired to perform all the duties, not just the ones they agree with.
Furthermore Linda, there are many moms and dad who have sons and daughters in the military that have been voicing their opinions against this war. I wonder what these soldiers think. I dont think they hold a grudge against their family.
As a soldier I would be more outraged at my fellow soldiers that have gone AWOL or desserted the military once they taken the oath to serve, than I would people objecting to this war.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
[ edited by logansdad on May 30, 2005 11:29 AM ]
posted on May 30, 2005 11:19:19 AM new
She's tries to speak for many of us here, she speaks for her government, her country and also for the dead. So why not for ALL the soldiers also?
posted on May 30, 2005 11:22:04 AM new
LOL kiara...You as in anti-war protestors, you as in those using their deaths for your own 'end the war now' agenda. You as in those peace-at-any-cost lefties who don't support their missions. You as in those who wanted to see them 'admit defeat' and withdraw. You as in those who wanted/encouraged/supported those who deserted and went to Canada. Those who supported the MASSIVE cut-backs the clinton administration made to our military/Armed Forces.
I could go on...but the list is WAY TOO LONG.
That is the 'they' I refer to when I speak about those of you here who are anti-any-war, anti-American government and who don't support our military in any way, shape or form, EXCEPT by words they post in these thread. NOT in REALITY...NOT in their ACTIONS. NOT in their voting for the party who has ALWAYS supported a strong military. But rather the ones...when a bipartisan decision is made to go to war...and our Congress agrees ...that still don't want us to protect our OWN Nation's interests. peace...peace..peace. Well tell that to those terrorists who want our country destroyed.
Want me to pull up some of THEIR quotes, kiara? Or have you ever even read their promised actions to MY country? But see....those still don't matter to you....the peace-at-ANY-cost club.
And why is it, do you think, that when clinton bombed Iraq he did so? Did you approve of those 'innocent deaths' that were caused when he dropped the bombs on Iraq for days? Or was that oh-so-different to you then?
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 30, 2005 11:26:55 AM newLOL kiara...You as in anti-war protestors, you as in those using their deaths for your own 'end the war now' agenda. You as in those peace-at-any-cost lefties who don't support their missions. You as in those who wanted to see them 'admit defeat' and withdraw. You as in those who wanted/encouraged/supported those who deserted and went to Canada. Those who supported the MASSIVE cut-backs the clinton administration made to our military/Armed Forces.
Where the hell do you get the nerve to include MY name in that? Have I ever said any of that here? How about you pulling up MY quotes?
posted on May 30, 2005 11:28:40 AM new
linduh, the blabber mouth bigoted torture loving neonazicon who just HAS to lump everyone into a "they" because they don't accept her "rulings"
Geez linduh...cool it....maybe to cheer yourself up you could get a date with Danica.....
posted on May 30, 2005 11:32:32 AM new
helen says: Linda, How repulsive, when someone like you makes an effort to speak for the dead. What unmittigated arrogance you have to attempt that role.
And while I don't agree that's what I'm doing how would that be different than you always speaking for our enemies...defending their actions against us. We're to blame...we started this...the poor people of xxx...According to you it's ALWAYS our fault.
BUT if I were to speak for the dead soldiers I believe more would support my belief that all their lives WERE NOT IN VAIN as you keep saying they are...that they died for nothing. Few dead soldiers would agree with that craziness.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 30, 2005 11:37:35 AM newThose who supported the MASSIVE cut-backs the clinton administration made to our military/Armed Forces.
Ah yes, we have discussed this point many times before - the cuts began in the Bush Sr. administration. Why should we have a need for such a massive military when there was no major war going on?
But rather the ones...when a bipartisan decision is made to go to war...and our Congress agrees ...that still don't want us to protect our OWN Nation's interests.
How can you say there was a bipartisan decision when the people presenting the facts were lying to Congress to begin with. A decision to go to war was made based on incorrect lies and half truths. Linda you can keep defending this administration all you want, but the facts are half the people in this country believe Bush deliberty misled this country about the reasons to go war.
In my eyes, these deliberate lies are grounds for impeachment.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on May 30, 2005 11:42:16 AM newThat is the 'they' I refer to when I speak about those of you here who are anti-any-war, anti-American government and who don't support our military in any way, shape or form,
What an old tired argument Linda. Can't think of anything new to say? It has already been proven that you are the Anti- American on this board. Trying to muzzle everyones first Amendment right to freedom of speach. I guess freedom of speach is only worth fighting for when it has a positive effect or produces an outcome that is condusive the conservative agenda.
Linda you should be held as an enemy combatant. It is you are the against what this country stands for.
Before 9/1/2001, how did you show your support for the troops?
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on May 30, 2005 11:42:43 AM new
It's like everything else on this board. If a question is asked of someone, there is always another coming in and posting for them. The reason because they know you better than yourself. This is a he said she said place and many days not a nice place.
Memorial Day is a day to remember the men and women that lived then died for their country. War is "Hell" but there has to be a balance. War has been since the beginning of time and it will go until the end of time. People do not get along, countries do not get along, but why can't we have just one day to Honor these men and women without fighting. Honor them the way they should be instead of all the battering.
God Bless America and all the fighting soldiers. May the Peace of God be with the families of the deceased.
posted on May 30, 2005 11:43:30 AM new
As bear said in short fashion....
Whether you like it or not, those 1600 soldiers that have died in Iraq, gave their lives to protect America from another WTC.
and I agree. It's just something you Bush haters can't get passed.
So when helen keeps repeating these soldiers have died for no reason...only lies....it's because she's blind to the reality of what our Nation faces. And that doesn't just come from the right side of the aisle. It's just like I've said before...it's just you 'extremists/radicals/anti-war' group here that can't see YOU'RE in the small minority. Our Congress just gave there support FOR continuing our actions over there...by voting to give more funding. That's THEIR approval...
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Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on May 30, 2005 11:57:16 AM newThe day was always meant to HONOR our fallen soldiers
WE CAN HONOR THEIR MEMORIES BY MAKING SURE THAT WE DO NOT GO TO WAR FOR THE WRONG REASONS AND THAT WE TRY TO PREVENT NEEDLESS WARS FROM HAPPENING.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on May 30, 2005 12:07:31 PM new
Poor, stupid , blind, bidoted linduh says, " Our Congress just gave there support FOR continuing our actions over there...by voting to give more funding. That's THEIR approval...""
It has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that we, and congress, were lied to.
but linduh must know so much more than the rest of the world...after all SHE can commune with the dead making all her points so valid
posted on May 30, 2005 12:11:16 PM newWhether you like it or not, those 1600 soldiers that have died in Iraq, gave their lives to protect America from another WTC.
Bear, your reasoning does not make any sense. Basically what you are saying the 126,000 US deaths and the 9.3 million dead worldwide during World War I should have been enough to prevent World War II.
If that number is not large enough for you, what about the 50 million soldiers that died during World War II, would that number be enough to prevent another war or prevent another country from attacking?
That is good and all, but how would the lives of those 1600 soldiers protect America from another Oklahoma City bombing? How would those lives lost protect America from another Pearl Harbor? How would those lost lives protect America from another country dropping a nuclear bomb on American soil?
As long as you have some extremist group that is willing and determined to do harm, you can try to prevent them, but in the end they will find away to be successful and the bombings at the WTC site is a prime example.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on May 30, 2005 12:11:40 PM new
I can see by your last post logansdad that now you must be kin to bigpeepa with the screaming that you are doing. Remember caps denote screaming and I will tell you I for one am not hard of hearing. So if your going to get a point across why not be a gentleman and post according to etiquette. That just shows your ignorance. Or, are you the one getting hot under the collar?
_________________
how would that be different than you always speaking for our enemies...defending their actions against us. We're to blame...we started this...the poor people of xxx...According to you it's ALWAYS our fault.
I believe more would support my belief that all their lives WERE NOT IN VAIN as you keep saying they are...that they died for nothing. Few dead soldiers would agree with that craziness.