Furthermore, It's silly to argue about the relevance of my single comment in light of your constant and unrelenting focus on personal attack rather than focus on the topic.
posted on June 7, 2005 11:31:23 AM new
Helen, I think she's trying to show the new poster how evil liberals are so he/she'll know who to avoid without having to actually speak to any of us.
posted on June 7, 2005 11:33:37 AM new
Did you miss this article Fenix?
Article on the editorial Page of our Newspapder
Felt played role in illegal FBI Action
Deep Throat's Other Legacy
By Colbert I. King
Saturday, June 4, 2005; Page A17
I share the pride of my Post colleagues in our newspaper's pursuit of Watergate, "the biggest political story in modern American history," as reporter Michael Dobbs described it in an article on Thursday. And as a member of The Post's editorial board, I also echo our Wednesday commentary, which said that former FBI deputy director W. Mark Felt, aka "Deep Throat," deserves to be honored for his role in bringing to light Richard Nixon's serious abuses of power. That honor, however, is not the full extent of Felt's legacy. Felt's devotion to J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI caused him, I believe, to place the bureau ahead of the Constitution and his own faithfulness to the Bill of Rights.
Felt's Watergate heroics notwithstanding, he was also on board when the FBI's series of covert action programs against Americans was well underway. He was a high FBI official when the bureau, arrogating unto itself the role of judge, jury and vigilante, trampled with impunity on the rights of citizens. Felt was there when the FBI sought to get teachers fired, when it tried to stop people from speaking on campus, when it prevented the distribution of books and newspapers and when it disrupted peaceful demonstrations and antiwar marches. Those shameful activities are cited in stark detail in Book III of the April 1976 Final Report of the Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations With Respect to Intelligence Activities of the United States Senate.
In the name of protecting national security and preventing violence, the FBI tried to promote factionalism and violence between groups it regarded as domestic threats. It planted informants to spread false rumors, labeled innocent people as "snitches" and passed along derogatory information to the families and friends of investigative targets, sometimes through anonymous letters or telephone calls. These despicable actions were carried out under COINTELPRO, an FBI acronym for "counterintelligence program."
Mark Felt knew all about it. At one time he was an assistant FBI director in charge of the inspection division. Consider the Senate committee's report on Felt's involvement: "The inspection division attempted to ensure that standard procedures were being followed. The Inspectors focused on two things: field office participation and the mechanics of headquarters approval. But the Inspection Division did not exercise oversight in the sense of looking for wrongdoing. Rather, it was an active participant in COINTELPRO by attempting to make sure that it was being efficiently and enthusiastically conducted."
Felt himself testified before the Senate committee that he did not investigate the "propriety" of COINTELPRO. To quote the Senate report: "[Felt] agreed that his job was 'to determine whether the program was being pursued effectively as opposed to whether it was proper,' and [Felt] added, 'There was no instruction to me, nor do I believe there is any instruction in the Inspector's manual that the Inspector should be on the alert to see that constitutional values are being protected' " (Felt's testimony before the Senate select committee, Feb. 3, 1976).
Lest there be any misunderstanding, Felt was not a passive observer as FBI agents conducted clandestine and illegal operations against innocent Americans. As The Post stated in Wednesday's editorial, Felt "was convicted of (and later pardoned for) authorizing illegal acts in pursuit of leftist radicals in the early 1970s." Here's the rest of the story.
When Felt was the No. 2 official in the FBI, he and Edward S. Miller, chief of the bureau's intelligence division, authorized burglaries at the homes of friends and relatives of members of the radical Weather Underground. The break-ins were illegal and a violation of the Fourth Amendment.
Felt and Miller were prosecuted in 1980 for their unconstitutional invasion of privacy by John W. Nields Jr., later chief House counsel to the Iran-contra hearings and earlier chief counsel to the 1977-78 House investigation of Korean influence-peddling in Congress. Nields told the jury: "You will hear the sounds of the Weatherman bombs ringing in your ears. We ask you also to listen for the sound of the Constitution of the United States. It doesn't make quite as much noise as the Weatherman bombs. It doesn't shriek at you. It doesn't even whisper. It just sits there silent, as it's done for 200 years, through war and depressions, through good times and bad." The jury heard Nields.
Felt and Miller, after an eight-week trial, were convicted of conspiracy for authorizing illegal searches and fined a total of $8,500. The Post stated in an editorial at the time [Dec. 15, 1980]: "The crime of which they were convicted by a jury is a serious one. It grew out of one of the more tawdry episodes in federal law enforcement -- the burglaries of private homes by FBI agents in pursuit of opponents of the war in Vietnam. . . . The dimensions of the wrongdoing by the FBI in those days -- and before -- are far larger than the specifics of the case against Messrs. Felt and Miller. The 'black bag jobs' were only part of a system of so-called law enforcements that ignored the principles of individual rights and personal privacy that are at the heart of this nation's political legacy."
Four months later, without talking to the prosecution, consulting the judge or conducting the customary Justice Department review, President Ronald Reagan, asserting that Felt and Miller were motivated by "high principle to bring an end to the terrorism that was threatening our nation," pardoned the two high-ranking FBI officials.
To be sure, Mark Felt's role as "Deep Throat" earned him a place in history. So, however, did his complicity in COINTELPRO, the FBI's dirty little secret war against Americans.
posted on June 7, 2005 11:37:27 AM new
KD - I have edited my post and proven with two of helen's "I'm anti-war" statements...that it wasn't JUST this war she opposed. Truth gets her all upset.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 7, 2005 11:38:11 AM new
kraft, why does it bother you so much that the daughter knows this is something 'sellable' and is honest enough to admit it? People sell their autobiographies and personal information everyday...and then theres a cheese sandwich..
I dont see why he or his family should not profit from it if everybody else involved has. ?
.
[ edited by dblfugger9 on Jun 7, 2005 11:39 AM ]
posted on June 7, 2005 11:48:44 AM new
Good question, dbl, we'll see IF she answers that one.
If you're anti-war at least have the backbone to admit it. Don't say several times that you are and then deny it later...change your position later and call someone who read your many 'I'm anti-war' statements a liar.
Just be truthful about where you REALLY stand.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 7, 2005 11:51:00 AM new
Of course I'm not totally anti-war, Dbl. I believe in defensive wars.
On the topic, I agree with your statement above. But... she might have avoided some embarrassment if she had shown more discretion in the wording and timing of that annoucement.
posted on June 7, 2005 11:55:36 AM new
okay, thanks Helen. That is good to know and hear it straight from you. (See now anybody can form their own opinion.)
posted on June 7, 2005 12:13:25 PM new
And on the daughter: maybe the way she said it is too blunt for some to accept>? But I dont think it is shameless. Woodward is coming out with his book in July...one write's a book - you should hope somebody knows of it and buys it, right?
I'm sorry, but I dont get the indignation over it. If you cant give something to your kids and grandkids, who can you give anything to?
posted on June 7, 2005 12:14:23 PM new
Double, I have no problem with people making money. When a person, who could've made money if he wanted to earlier in life, has a daughter who thinks making money off her dad's history, when it appears that he might not be lucid, for her own gain, is cheesy. Instead of highlighting her father's role, she's shamed it by turning the attention to herself, imo.
posted on June 7, 2005 12:20:18 PM new
Maybe kraft.... But when people need money to live and the opportunity is there...why should it go to waste?
I think he is lucid enough to know he was revealed, right? I'd have to say he consented to this with her and has some clue about what it all means, financial gain and all? That is my feeling about it anyway.
.
[ edited by dblfugger9 on Jun 7, 2005 12:22 PM ]
I don't know anything about the Felt families financial circumstances but the fact that they are worried about an education loan may indicate that they need money for other expenses such as their father's medical expenses etc. I certainly can't fault them for an effort to make some money on a book. One advantage of the book is that it will serve to focus attention on the Nixon corruption and by doing so possibly discourage some criminal activity in the future.
posted on June 7, 2005 12:53:52 PM new
Sure, if they need money to live on or for medical expenses, I see no problem, but she never mentioned that or her dad. She only said SHE needed the money for her son and that SHE was a single mom (at 61??), making herself look self-centered. If she said they needed money to help look after her dad and left herself out of it, there would be nothing to discuss.
okay...I'm done for now. Think I've made my point that while helen always accuses OTHERS of lying about what she's said....her short term memory isn't very good.
posted on June 7, 2005 02:47:53 PM new
No, linda YOU are the ONLY poster here who has lied about me... You, who remember things that never happened. And you who twists that which does happen until it's unrecognizable. And you who prevaricates and insinuates with the silly notion that you will go undetected. But I'll be here, linda with my memory very much intact along with the ability to prove MY statements...something that you are NEVER able to do.
And I am not alone, Linda. We are all watching while you implode. It's a hot topic.
posted on June 7, 2005 02:54:55 PM new
I just can't please you helen. You're always demanding I post links...quotes...and now I have and you're still blowing a gasket.
You called colin and I liars when we recently called you on being anti-american. You always make it sound like you're just against Pres. Bush and THIS war. When in fact, you've been against our actions in at least these threes wars.
Proof of your own words....shouldn't upset you helen. I think anyone who takes the time to read those links will see that MANY OTHERS took your comments the same way colin and I have.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 7, 2005 03:01:27 PM new
Yes Libra - I have read the article. Thank you for bolding for me but I assure you that I am capable reading and judging without having someone else dictate to me what the important parts are (why do people insist on doing that?).
It does not dispute the fact that the crimes that he was charged with for acts that he took part were initially believed to be legally sanctioned. He never tried to deny or cover it up. He was found guilty of crimes when it was determined that the FBI had been acting outside the scope of the law no matter what it's director said (why do you think so few mourned the loss of Hoover).
There is a big difference between Felt being one of the 20,000 employees of an organization that used a dozen to get teachers fired, and being part of a group of five that conspired to illegally solicit campaign contributions, launder them thru Mexican bank accounts and then use the funds to hire Cuban mercenaries and ex CIA to carry out break-ins and plant people in demonstration to commit acts of violence in order to smear their opponents.
He is not an angel Libra, no one that works for the government is but again, the only thing that is accomplished by articles such as the one you posted is to remind people of just how far out into the nether regions the Nixon administration had strayed.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on June 7, 2005 03:13:25 PM new
Linda, you have posted links to quotes that I have never denied. The fact that you have skewed the truth to indicate that I view the entire country as evil is nothing new. That's your dishonest tactic that is causing so much disruption lately. I do believe that the Bush administration represents the most corrupt and evil administration that this country has ever had.
I notice that you failed to copy my words from those links so I'll do it for you.
Some people believe that after war begins, the appropriate response is to shut up and support our country, no matter what it does. While I do support our troops and would bring them home if it were my decision to make, I do not support the Bush administration's long range goal of controlling the world by violent force.
On Afghanistan...My point is that George Bush DEVASTATED a poor defenseless country in order to advance his political agenda and lubricate his corporate buddies and that we should all wake up and make sure that he will not be elected again in 2004.
You said, linda that you were "done". Does this conclude your discussion of the Deep Throat issue?
posted on June 7, 2005 03:30:40 PM new
I said I was done...but you appear to wish to continue, helen. So, we shall.
Anyone interested can read ALL of the links helen...to verify your constant disagreement with our countries actions....EVEN our DEFENSIVE ones as you implied to dbl. The fact that you have changed the manner in which you used to post, was mentioned by colin, and you denied that too.
As you do with everything I say you've said. So....now I've proved you wrong....whether by loss of your memory or because you now choose to represent yourself differently than you did pre-Afghanistan war.
Either way...you've always been negative about our country's actions and defensive of our enemies....as the links show those who weren't around here at that time.
--
In this thread YOU went off topic about how many had died in Cambodia. Are you denying you did that? hope not.
Pointing out how many we killed...how many died because of OUR actions....not the actions of the communists...no, our terrible actions. Just like you always do.
You were quick to tie this topic in with the Nixon administration and OUR war in VN.....which wasn't what THIS topic was about. It was about the reason DT went public.
The bombing in VN and Cam. did not have anything to do with DT. nada nor why his daughter made the decision to BREAK her father's wishes by 'outting' him before his death. Which was the agreement he had with the WP writers. She broke the agreement....and we have YET to see any proof that he approved of her doing so...only HER word and her reasons why she did so. And of course, even Woodward's saying he doesn't think Felt's mentally able to remember or discuss anything. And the money issue is certainly a good motive for her to do so.
-------------
So, helen, are we done NOW? Or maybe you could just tell us that you did support our wars in VN, Korea, Afghanistan and Iraq. Can't do it can you? This is where you stop answering questions and either leave....or just avoid them altogether. You've even avoided answering how you felt about clinton's bombing of Iraq in 1999. You don't answer the tough questions...
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
What a mystery...From The Atlanta Journal..
Deep Throat analysts say Felt must have had help from inside the FBI
A retired FBI agent's assertion this week that several bureau officials collaborated to leak information about the Watergate investigation to The Washington Post did not surprise experts who have dissected the case for decades.
Some have long speculated that the media source known as Deep Throat didn't act alone, but Paul V. Daly's account of firsthand knowledge about the case has helped fuel renewed interest in what had become one of history's great modern mysteries. Daly's disclosure came on the heels of former FBI Deputy Director W. Mark Felt's admission last week that he was Deep Throat.
posted on June 7, 2005 03:58:05 PM new
Linda, that post appears to be written by a crazy loon. The thoughts are scattered, it's off topic and simply doesn't make sense. in the last couple of weeks, several people here have questioned you about this problem...When more that one person brings up the same concern maybe you should pay attention.
To sum up, you are making a complete fool of yourself ...step back and take a look
posted on June 7, 2005 04:05:47 PM new
LOL....You need to take a chill pill out helen. You're upset because I did what you're always telling me to do....posted your own words..."I'm anti-war"....and posted links so others can form their own opinions on your own words, not have to decide who to believe between linda and helen. They're adults....
And I'm sure they can see that you still refuse to answer any questions put to you.
YOU started it helen....because Nixon didn't start the VN war...and it wasn't the thread topic.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 7, 2005 04:29:37 PM new
You are in need of a SERIOUS chill pill as anyone can see after reading your previous rants on this thread alone. I am proud of my opinions, lindak...and have no difficulty telling anyone what they are.
"YOU started it helen....because Nixon didn't start the VN war...and it wasn't the thread topic.
You are WRONG again as anyone can see who reads this thread. I never said that Nixon started the VietNam War. Are you REALLY NUTS???? My comment that lit a fire under your tail is this one....
.."It is interesting that a more serious transgression committed by the Nixon administration...the carpet bombing of Cambodia, killing possibly 200,000 was given less attention by the media. The servile status of the media to republican power is also illustrated by their allegiance to the corrupt Bush administration"
posted on June 7, 2005 04:37:32 PM new
He didn't act alone. Mark Felt was fired from the FBI and Woodward still got confidential information. Who gave it to him, not Mark Felt. It is also speculated that he had (probably interns)doing the circling of the newpaper pages and watching the patio because there wasn't enough hours in a day for Mark Felt to do it.
posted on June 7, 2005 05:04:42 PM new
helen, I'm going to end this by saying that I think your unwillingness to answer the questions on all our previous wars...and whether or not you supported ANY of them...clearly speaks for itself.
If some asked, "Linda, did you support your countries actions in WWII, Korea, VN, Afghanistan, Iraq and when clinton bombed Iraq because he too thought they had wmd?", my answer to all would be a quick YES.
The 'dancing around' you're doing here, rather than just honestly answering a simple question...says a lot about you helen.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 7, 2005 05:37:49 PM new
Linda, When I am here, I will correct your lies and misleading posts. Otherwise, I have no desire to communicate with you. In my opinion you have an emotional problem. It's just not normal to focus so much hostility and anger toward nearly everyone here. Your true feelings are not blurred by insincere laughs and perverse happy faces.
posted on June 7, 2005 06:03:15 PM new
LOL....yes, helen, I know when I DO choose to post links and your own words, it really upsets you and you once again threaten to never speak to me again.
But in all the times you've make that same promise you haven't been able to honor your word.
I will be hopeful, this time, you'll find the strength to do as you've said you were going to do for YEARS - but so far haven't been able to do.
posted on June 7, 2005 06:25:07 PM new
Reading 101 -- When I say that I have no desire to communicate with you it doesn't follow that I will never speak to you. I'll be watching for lies and mistatements and skewed information and when I see it, I will speak to you.
.."It is interesting that a more serious transgression committed by the Nixon administration...the carpet bombing of Cambodia, killing possibly 200,000 was given less attention by the media. The servile status of the media to republican power is also illustrated by their allegiance to the corrupt Bush administration"
