toyranch-07
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posted on September 20, 2000 08:21:33 PM
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/1999/08/17/elon_musk/
Interesting article. Kinda reveals the underlying attitude from them.
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radh
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posted on September 20, 2000 09:10:21 PM
But what is the number of your auction for the new artwork entitled, "Playpal roadster"?
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mzalez
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posted on September 20, 2000 09:35:04 PM
Wow, I'm shocked. That guy is a kid. I guess that explains PayPal's Gen X business ethics.
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Shoshanah
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posted on September 20, 2000 09:37:21 PM
Well, I'll be!...
As always, thanks to the two top news-casters on the board.. Very enlightening...
********************
Shosh
http://www.oldandsold.com/cgi-bin/auction.cgi?justdisp&Rifkah
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/rifkah/
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paulstar
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posted on September 20, 2000 09:43:22 PM
REMEMBER:
Everyone who does business with PayPal is subsidizing that ego.
You are ALL to blame.
You have immeasurable power with your buck, but as a group, you will continue to behave as sheep.
[ edited by paulstar on Sep 20, 2000 09:45 PM ]
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traceyg
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posted on September 20, 2000 09:49:18 PM
Well he has to do something I tell you just by his looks he wouldn't be able to get a date.
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uaru
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posted on September 20, 2000 09:55:18 PM
Well he has to do something I tell you just by his looks he wouldn't be able to get a date.
Hey, when you've sold a company for over 300 million I don't think dates are a problem. Hell, if I could look good in drag I'd date him! (5 o'clock shadow sucks!)
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hcross
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posted on September 20, 2000 09:58:09 PM
That was cruel, and unfounded. Heather
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uaru
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posted on September 20, 2000 09:58:52 PM
"Everyone who does business with PayPal is subsidizing that ego."
Right On! I'm going to hold out for a pay service founded by a group of Trappist monks that have taken a vow of poverty!
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krs
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posted on September 20, 2000 10:20:23 PM
See, the car is an investment, and paypal TOLD everyone that they would invest your money.
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njrazd
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posted on September 20, 2000 10:21:35 PM
Although I would never begrudge a successful person their luxuries, something just crossed my mind. If he has already made millions with the sale of his first company, he can afford to lose money on his next venture and maybe could even appreciate the tax advantage.
Give me a hungry entrepreneur anyday!
*****************
That's Flunky Gerbiltush to you!
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twinsoft
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posted on September 20, 2000 10:54:48 PM
Interesting article that provides some perspective on Musk. But the writer has little understanding of the Silicon Valley mindset and especially the legion of 30 year-old startup entrepreneur-millionaires who live in the Palo Alto area (where I grew up). People wear dungarees and sandals not because they're trying hide their wealth or are concerned with PR, but because those clothes are comfortable. They drive old Volvos. Musk is not a native Palo Altan, so I suppose he can be excused for tooling around in his Formula-1. (Feh!)
Anyway, I'm glad I read this article. I've had a change of heart. I will no longer "cheat" Paypal by playing by the rules. I'd hate to think I might possibly deprive Mr. Musk of his next million-dollar toy.
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EyeOfNute
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posted on September 20, 2000 11:29:50 PM
Looks like a VW with a bad hair day to me.
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waspstar
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posted on September 20, 2000 11:39:05 PM
Mr. Musk won't be seeing any of my money anytime soon.
Does he really believe that people will be attracted to an online bank by the name of X.com? It's the worst name they could have come up with. SOunds like a porn site.
"My possessions are causing me suspicion." - Neil Finn
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smw
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posted on September 21, 2000 02:01:51 AM
What Musk is, and what his backers are looking for, is a believer -- someone whose very ignorance of corporate manners allows him to induce a whole company to come together and embark on an ill-defined but promising course.
This explains the confusion. This explains why the information is ambiguous. This explains why there are no consistent definitions of who or what is a business, or who or what is expected to "upgrade". This explains why Damon has no real answers, he must get a new set everyday.
This guy is making it up as he goes along.
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macandjan
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posted on September 21, 2000 04:15:54 AM
Yes he is making it up as he goes along. Now the really scary part is that that is still better than say what Chase Manhatten has been able to do. That upsets me because I own CM stock not x.com. If he is making it up as he goes along he can keep changing it until it works! A "Regular Bank" can't do that so they have to have a near perfect business plan worked out before hand or fail. Most will chose not to start.
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toyranch-07
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posted on September 21, 2000 04:55:08 AM
Well, everyone in Silly Valley is making it up as they go along... they have to! None of it has ever been done before!
I think the important thing here though is who is doing the making and why...
Jeff Bezos is making up Amazon as he goes along...
Meg and friends are making up ebaY as they go along...
And Musk is making up PayPal/X.com as he goes along too...
The thing is that a lot of the inspiration for making it up comes from their backgrounds in business school. Offering something for little or nothing in order to gain a customer base and establish a place in the market, only to turn around and raise rates and start charging more (or at all) once the business has a large base is a standard taught strategy. Stores offer 'loss leaders', items at low prices (sold at a loss or break-even) to get you in the store, hoping you'll buy other items while you are there.
Promising that it would be 'free forever' and using people's greed to buy customers (did you REALLY think that a BANK was giving out $5 bills for FREE????) and then changing the rules as soon as possible amounts to something more akin to 'Bait and Switch' hucksterism however...
And Musk may have made the fatal error of making the 'Switch' too fast...
because we can still 'Switch' too!!!
I think that the personalities of corporate leadership speaks volumes about the ways and the reasons decisions are made. There are many big corporations that, while out to make money, do not hold their customers in disdain or contempt. I don't know if Musk holds his customers in disdain or not, but judging by ALL appearances...
The thing that bothers me most about the PayPal stuff is that they've brought it along as if it were the plan all along... and I believed it was the plan THEN and now here it is playing out...
They said 'Free Forever' and it just didn't make sense. Now they are acting like this was the plan all along, and it was... but they figured we would be so busy racking up referral fees we wouldn't stop to wonder what the hell they were doing... and they were right.
I've heard estimates that PayPal has been burning $10 million a month since startup. "Free Forever" indeed! There's nothing wrong with making money. There's nothing wrong with making a LOT of money. In fact, making a LOT of money is GOOD! Lying and cheating to get there is NOT good. Making it up as they go? Yeah, they'd like us to think that... but somehow I don't think they planned to lose $10million a month 'Forever', even if they said they did...
Oh, and this if for Radh 
http://members.aol.com/toborthegreat/xhead.jpg
"X Head Drives Fast Cars Off Cliff As Lemmings Watch" 
http://www.millionauctionmarch.com/
[email protected]
[ edited by toyranch on Sep 21, 2000 05:00 AM ]
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uaru
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posted on September 21, 2000 05:18:07 AM
"did you REALLY think that a BANK was giving out $5 bills for FREE????
Actually YES. If you'll shop around you'll find many online banks are offering bonuses to establish an account. Citi/fi had a program where you establish and account deposit $500 for 6 months and they gave you $100.00 and yes... it worked. Several online banks offer $20 to sign up, the amount of time it takes is minimal so I've taken advantage of many of these offers. Look around, you'd be surprised.
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toyranch-07
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posted on September 21, 2000 05:20:56 AM
That's fine UARU, but those other banks charge fees, do they not? Did they say they would give you money AND a service that would be 'Free Forever' as well?
http://www.millionauctionmarch.com/
[email protected]
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number47
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posted on September 21, 2000 05:30:23 AM
Urk! After all the recent crap from them - that's it for me. As soon as my current auctions end, I'm outta PayPal.
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uaru
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posted on September 21, 2000 05:38:57 AM
"That's fine UARU, but those other banks charge fees, do they not? Did they say they would give you money AND a service that would be 'Free Forever' as well?"
some charge fees, most don't, some don't pay interest, some do, if it was a money losing proposition I wouldn't do it. As far as I know only "herpes is forever". I don't get to upset if someone changes their policy, I don't know anyone that etches their policy in stone. I don't ever get locked into a program where the policies change that I can't get out.
The advantages of my low blood pressure is I can look at things from a business sense and not get emotional about it. I don't fight windmills, the odds are poor, the rewards are even poorer.
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comic123
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posted on September 21, 2000 06:44:58 AM
Now I know why envy is one of Dante's 7 deadly sin. I wish I was as smart as this kid & be innovative & make something that people need. Everyone can be an eBay user but it took someone to think it up. But alas, its much easier to sit at home & when hubby's not around...surf the web...
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unknown
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posted on September 21, 2000 07:23:29 AM
What do you think paid for that car.
Our Balances.
(And the money suspended in thin air when people typo the email address.)
Simple solution: Pull your money out and keep your balance as low as possible.
Remember your balance there is not in a bank account. They do not have to abide by any rules. They can actually spend your many any way they like. Including buying expensive cars.
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uaru
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posted on September 21, 2000 07:33:43 AM
"What do you think paid for that car. Our Balances."
I realize that PayPal has become the Anti-Christ but come on, damn get a grip. The guy sold a company for over 300 million last year, PayPal didn't even exist when that article was written. Notice the date?
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kaskas
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posted on September 21, 2000 07:45:18 AM
Well... I must say!
Some of you are so bent!!! I give this guy alot of credit! He has a business model that is going to be successful with or without you!
So many of you who are on the PAYPAL SUCKS bandwagon are the same ones who were on the PAYPAL IS GOD bandwagon. You cant have it both ways! Geeze, get a grip.
We all knew it would not be free forever! (at least those of us with an ounce of business sense)
You should be happy that PayPal PAID you to use their serice for a long time!
Now they decide to charge a modest fee. AND YOU ARE BENT OUT OF SHAPE! PHoooey on YOU! Everyone wants something for nothing! How disappointing to see "business people" being so assinine.
You discredit him because of his age, you judge him. You should be congradulating him for making a business that makes your life easier.
MAKING IT UP AS HE GOES ALONG: Yep he probably is.... probably thought he could do it free forever... but times change and rather than go under why not charge a modest fee? (Makes sense to a business person.... remember how many of you start your auctions at a price you can live with... DID YOU ALWAYS DO THAT????)
Those of you who are ALWAYS nay-sayers BE GONE WITH YOU!!! I will be accepting PAYPAL happily, and the bidder will be using it because it is free and easy to use! I will collect the cash while you wait for your checks!
I have waited a long time before posting on this issue, I really wanted to think about the big picture rather than the self serving side of the story.
ELON MUSK ~ More Power To You!! You are an inspiration to young entrepeneurs! Keep going!! As long as your fees are reasonable I will be in your corner!!
KASKAS
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srfnfshn
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posted on September 21, 2000 07:46:08 AM
The car isn't the point. This article just illustrates the overwhelming arrogance by Musk and Paypal with him at the helm.
Did anyone else notice the irony that Paypal isn't available to Canadians yet Musk's only banking experience was acquired during a stint as an intern at a Canadian bank?
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vargas
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posted on September 21, 2000 07:49:10 AM
Elon Musk did not create PayPal. He bought it after X.com's PayPal-copycat service flopped in a very big way.
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toyranch-07
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posted on September 21, 2000 07:56:17 AM
Comic123~
Speaking for myself... there is absolutely NO envy involved! Would I trade places with Musk if I could? Not even for a day!
There are many innovative and successful people I admire a great deal. He's certainly not one of them!
PayPal didn't pay for his car, the sale of his last business did. PayPal has yet to show a profit and his last business never did either, it just sold for a lot of money.
Building something that is popular is easy if you have enough money behind you and you give it away for free. Making it actually turn a profit is an entirely different scenario, and one that is pretty rare in Silly Valley... at least with the .com types.
Interesting report in TAG this morning...
**Our suggestion that PayPal post a public apology was laughed at, but our points were acknowledged as having merit.**
OK, people laugh for a lot of different reasons. Sometimes it's just because they are nervous. I wonder why PayPal was laughing at the suggestion they apologize? Maybe they were just nervous... we'll see I guess... I mean, if they apologize then we'll know for sure that it was just a 'nervous laugh'.
http://www.millionauctionmarch.com/
[email protected]
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labbie1
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posted on September 21, 2000 08:39:56 AM
GREAT CAR! Hey I don't begrudge the guy anything that he wants to buy. He started things, he earned the money. He employs people and pays salaries.
That said, I find this statement in the article VERY telling! "The funny thing is that Musk really does not seem to care. "
Now THAT is so telling because I believe that at this point, this is what we are seeing from PayPal/x.com. I think they really don't care about the customer base that they aquired. THIS is a problem.
From what that article says, it appears the first company that he sold was NOT a public service type company and thus he did not have to be accountable to anyone but his brother and other investors.
PayPal is VERY different and this could be a really interesting learning experience for this kid. (yeah yeah kid! I remember what my thoughts were at 28--and believe me, if you had added a few hundred million to that figure that I had already made by that point, I would have been really haughty and a know-it-all-you-can't-tell-me-anything too!)
The kid made it in a short time, and it can be gone in a short time (ask the Donald!) if you don't gain some moxie along the way to go with those book smarts--know what I mean?
KRS "See, the car is an investment, and paypal TOLD everyone that they would invest your money."
ROFLMAO! Do you think we can go out there and get a ride in what our money is invested in, since we own a wee part?
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capotasto
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posted on September 21, 2000 09:04:21 AM
More PP bashing... the amount of ignorance displayed in some of these posts is astounding.
-- The article, as several have noted, has nothing to do with PP.
-- Musk and his brother didn't get 300 million.
-- The "he doesn't care" has nothing to do with his companies, it refers to his image.
But those who want to bash PP are the ones who don't care... about the truth.
Vinnie
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