posted on June 18, 2005 11:20:36 PM new
That's your opinion Kiara and one that does not reflect some on this board.
I beg to differ with you about crowfarms ability to stand on her own. The reason she is on my ignore is because all she does is slander posters and call names. There is nothing original about her posts. All she did was C&P what others said with no meaning to why she did it. Enough talking about the witch of the round table.
Now Bangladesh has their own owners of the sweat shop and they are the ones that say what their pay is. The American companies set the standards, that is the standard of work not living, that belongs to their government not ours. If the American companies want more merchandise then they work those people more instead of hiring more help and that is not the fault of Americans. Kiara didn't you see the american buyer that won't pay anymore for her clothes as she can't afford any more, because of her mortgage, car payment etc. She said she would not pay more so that the Bangladesh worker could get higher pay. Walmart, Kmart and Kohls want the best possible price so the Americans will buy at their store. Maybe it is time you boycott those three stores because I have already. I will not shop at Walmart, Kmart or Kohls. Did you notice how nicely dressed the owners of the sweat shops were. What is their profit on a pair of pants? Why aren't you blaming them? I do.
We are in agreement. At least on this issue. It happens every now and again.
American companies used to exploit their workers just as badly at one time (some probably still do). The US was filled with sweat shops into the 20th century (federal law wasn't passed until the 1930's).
Case in point. In 1911, 142 people died in a shirt waist factory in New York in what has become known as the Triangle Fire. The buildings owners made sure the building itself was fireproof, but not enough fire exits were provided for the safety of those within it. The doors were also locked keeping the workers inside. They worked from 7am to 8 pm with only a 1/2 break for the entire day. The following was written by an employee in 1909:
Life in the Shop
by Clara Lemlich
First let me tell you something about the way we work and what we are paid. There are two kinds of work—regular, that is salary work, and piecework. The regular work pays about $6 a week and the girls have to be at their machines at 7 o'clock in the morning and they stay at them until 8 o'clock at night, with just one-half hour for lunch in that time.
The shops. Well, there is just one row of machines that the daylight ever gets to—that is the front row, nearest the window. The girls at all the other rows of machines back in the shops have to work by gaslight, by day as well as by night. Oh, yes, the shops keep the work going at night, too.
The bosses in the shops are hardly what you would call educated men, and the girls to them are part of the machines they are running. They yell at the girls and they "call them down" even worse than I imagine the Negro slaves were in the South.
There are no dressing rooms for the girls in the shops. They have to hang up their hats and coats—such as they are—on hooks along the walls. Sometimes a girl has a new hat. It never is much to look at because it never costs more than 50 cents, that means that we have gone for weeks on two-cent lunches—dry cake and nothing else.
The shops are unsanitary—that's the word that is generally used, but there ought to be a worse one used. Whenever we tear or damage any of the goods we sew on, or whenever it is found damaged after we are through with it, whether we have done it or not, we are charged for the piece and sometimes for a whole yard of the material.
At the beginning of every slow season, $2 is deducted from our salaries. We have never been able to find out what this is for.
There is a great web site about the fire, the investigation into the cause and the union's fight for workers' rights:
Probably the best course I took in college was Human Relations in Business. We covered working conditions during the Industrial Revolution. They are the same conditions these people are forced to work in. Without the labor unions of the day, things may never have changed as drastically as they did. You'll never hear me say that labor unions are a bad thing. US companies can no longer exploit their workers the way they did in the 19th century so they've turned their attentions on the rest of the world. It's shameful.
Notice, I didn't mention that this is a political party issue because it's not. It's a human rights issue that should outrage members of all political parties.
posted on June 19, 2005 06:07:40 AM new
Libra the brain dead nasty mean mouthed sick stupid dried up old excuse for a human being says:
"" beg to differ with you about crowfarms ability to stand on her own. The reason she is on my ignore is because all
she does is slander posters and call names.
There is nothing original about her posts. All she did was C&P what others said with no meaning to why she did it.
Enough talking about the witch of the round table."
But the poor old addled brained drugged up drunken old fart just can't stop talking about me
Ha! Only posts to slander and call me names ...her brain really has calcified from non use
posted on June 19, 2005 07:46:29 AM new
Libra63, of course the owners of the factories are at blame too but Walmart is famous for negotiating the lowest price they can get and we are a society of spoiled consumers so fingers can be pointed right up the ladder.
You neglected to mention the other two ladies that were shopping at Walmart and what an eye-opener it was for them to see slave labor. Of course they can pay more for that pair of pants and they readily admitted that they could.
BTW, it's interesting that you continue to say nasty things about Crowfarm each day but hide behind an ignore button excuse to do it. That's not standing on your own ... you're wimping out because you're too chicken to confront her right on. Gotta remember those high moral values you tout and Miss Manners would be appalled to see a lady like you talking like you have done this past year.
posted on June 19, 2005 08:38:53 AM new
There is one thing that really convinced me of WalMart's power and influence. If you've ever shopped for groceries in a WalMart supercenter, you're aware that WalMart's beef is not packaged the same as meat in other stores. What you may not know is that none of that meat is packaged at your local store. It is packaged for retail by wholesale meat suppliers who contract with WalMart. There aren't any "butchers" working in a WalMart meat market. Just try ordering a special cut sometime...can't do it. Prior to WalMart going into the grocery business, nobody dictated to the U.S. beef industry how they were going to supply beef. They told the retail market chains how they were going to supply the meat, and that was that, take it or leave it. The U.S. beef industry is one of the most powerful conglomerates in the world. The government has little power over them, the other grocery chains are at their mercy on supply, quality and price, yet WalMart was able to say "this is the kind of beef you're going to sell us, this is how you're going to pack it for us, and this is how much we're going to pay you", take it or leave it.
If WalMart can bend the American beef industry to it's will, it's silliness to assume they can't do it to the sweatshop owners in some starving nation with jillions of people who are willing to work for next to nothing. To lay the blame on the countries and businesses within them is just plain foolish.
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Fue por lana y salió trasquilado...
[ edited by profe51 on Jun 19, 2005 09:16 AM ]
posted on June 19, 2005 09:24:15 AM new
Kiara, I will never confront her head on because she is a very vindictive person. It's to bad there are different views on this board but she has no view as she kept bashing away. That is her mantra. She wants this board to be just like her. I doubt if she realizes that there are two sides to every story. But Kiara little do you know and I hope you understand that I have had her on ignore but it seems like when she posts to other people about me she is trying to get me to respond to her but I won't and I don't read her posts.
You are currently ignoring posts from crowfarm. Click here to view them.
I honestly don't care what miss manners has to say. Remember crowfarm is the one who was kicked off this board for a short vacation because of her posting not me.
Maybe miss manner, the stuffy old women, would be appalled at the way crowfarm posts also and I must say the same for you. So what is my posting any different than anyone elses especially you when you have constantly said cram it up your ---
Back to the topic of the thread.
Now if you looked at the two ladies that NBC found they are dressed nicely, older and no doubt had money. Next I doubt if they shop at Walmart, but I could be wrong. The other one was young and trying to make it in this life also. There is no comparison between the 3 parties. Also Walmart wouldn't negotiate to take one penny less for the pants. The children that own Walmart are all on the Fortune 500 list. Doesn't that tell you something. Greed.
I think we have to notice about Dateline Story is that there are no workers under 18. Now they have made that stride and maybe in the near future they will have better working conditions. We can only hope. I blame that onto the owners of the sweat shop as they are the ones that are making the money. It is funny that people continually talk about the money the CEO's make but how much money do the owners of the sweat shops make?
The segment that NBC ran was not about Republicans or Democrats, you or I, it was to show us what is happening in the sweat shops. The US doesn't have anything to do with them because we don't own them, but the stores that buy from them are trying to give them a better standard of working. i.e. employee rights. Is Walmart,
Kmart or Kohls going to change? Not if the American citizens don't stop buying from their stores. They (Walmart etc.) never tell us the profit they make from those sales did you notice? Everytime they roll back their prices someone else has to take a cut whether it be the employee of those stores or the sweat shops. Certainly the owners of those stores don't take a cut. I am sure the canadian stores are also buying from the sweat shops, what are they doing about it? I have no idea who owns KMart, well Sears now I guess, but Martha Stewart is bringing them back from bankrupcy.
Critics Calling U.S. Supplier in Nicaragua a ‘Sweatshop’
By STEVEN GREENHOUSE
An arm of the Pentagon has come under fire for procuring large quantities of apparel from a Nicaraguan factory that labor rights groups say is a sweatshop and that the United States trade representative has voiced serious concerns about.
Several members of Congress say it is wrong for the Pentagon agency, which runs 1,400 stores at military bases and made $7.3 billion in sales last year, to obtain apparel from the Chentex factory, which a Nicaraguan union has accused of firing more than 150 union supporters. In an unusually stern letter, The United States trade representative, Charlene Barshefsky, warned the Nicaraguan government in October that the United States might rescind some trade benefits unless it moved to ensure that Chentex complied with labor laws.
Labor rights groups in the United States have mounted an intense campaign against Chentex, a factory with 1,800 workers that is owned by the Nien Hsing Textile Company, after Nicaraguan workers accused the company of illegal firings. Many workers also complain about low pay, monitored bathroom visits, large amounts of mandatory overtime and being screamed at and occasionally hit by managers.
Cynthia A. McKinney, Democrat of Georgia, who sits on the procurement subcommittee of the House Armed Services Committee, said it was wrong for one federal agency, the Pentagon, to buy large amounts of apparel from Chentex while another, the trade representative’s office, had singled out the factory for criticism.
Representative McKinney and several other House members are working closely with a labor rights group that has obtained shipping documents showing that the Army and Air Force Exchange Service, a nonprofit Pentagon arm that runs the post exchanges, is one of the Chentex’s largest customers. Other major customers have included the retailers Wal-Mart and Kohl’s. "The United States government is the last place that should be supporting and coddling sweatshop labor and the violation of human rights," Ms. McKinney said. Labor rights groups and several House members say the Chentex battle is important because it seeks to upgrade wages and working conditions in poor nations at a time when the American economy is importing more goods than ever and American companies are relocating operations to low-wage countries.
Fred Bluhm, a spokesman for the Army and Air Force Exchange Service, said that in light of the many criticisms of Chentex the exchange service sent officials to Nicaragua to examine the Chentex operation. "Our representative who went there found no problems," he said.
Carlos Yin, the general manager of Chentex, said in a telephone interview that his company treats its workers well. He accused the union of exagerating problems and he insisted that only 12 union supporters had been fired, all of them union leaders. He said they were dismissed legally, asserting that it was the union leaders who had broken the law by calling one-hour work stoppage and two-day strike without the workers’ approval.
"We didn’t do anything wrong," Mr. Yin said. "Nicaraguan law protects the workers very strong, and we can’t go against the law."
But Charles Kernaghan, executive director of the National Labor Committee, a New York-based labor rights group, said the company dismissed far more than 100 union supporters after they went on strike demanding a 40 percent wage increase.
At a factory that sews 35,000 pair of jeans a day, employees earn about 20 cents for the work they put into a pair of jeans that often sell retail for $30 in the United States. The workers, in effect, demanded to be paid 8 cents more per pair.
Mr. Yin, the factory manager, said all of his workers earn at least the minimum wage, which union leaders say is set unrealistically low in developing countries in order to attract foreign investment. Last summer, Representative Sherrod Brown, Democrat of Ohio, visited Nicaragua and met mother who worked at Chentex 60 hours a week, while her husband worked at another Nien Hsing factory for 70 hours aweek, and yet they lived in a hut with a dirt floor. "The couple had a 3-year-old daughter with discolored tips of her hair, probably from a protein deficiency," he said. "These are people who work 60, 70 hours a week, and their standard of living is just abysmal."
Mr. Brown, who got 67 House members to sign a letter to President Clinton last July about conditions at Chentex and another Nicaraguan factory, Mil Colores, said he would hold a news conference this week criticizing the Army and Air Force Exchange Service.
"I’m outraged that American taxpayers are being made part of this sweatshop global economy in this way," he said.
Read this it is very interesting. It was happening in the Clinton administration and it is still happening.
posted on June 19, 2005 02:08:02 PM new
DING DING DING DING DING .... ok - who had two days before the Clinton administration was brought into a discussion that has nothing to do with politics?
BTW - Libra gets extra points for going back more than 5 years in order to find an article to enable it.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on June 19, 2005 05:15:52 PM new
your right dbl. He has no right in this thread except when he was president I think they had children working in those sweat shops making those uniforms. It is not just now about the sweat shops it is how long it has been happening.
How many on this discussion board knew we used sweat shops to make american uniforms when Clinton was president? I sure didn't but I did find this article and whether or not you like it fenix Pres. Clinton had a hand in those uniforms.
_________________
posted on June 19, 2005 05:17:33 PM new
"I did find this article and whether or not you like it fenix Pres. Clinton had a hand in those uniforms"
especially the ones Monica was wearing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Baseball season has started,but they have it all wrong.3 strikes and you're out,4 balls you walk.I can tell you right now a man with 4 balls could not possibly walk
posted on June 19, 2005 06:16:24 PM newIt is not just now about the sweat shops it is how long it has been happening...
I know Libra! And youre right! But see, if you thought you were cutting somebody off at the pass about blaming Bush..well then...You've set off alarms bells for fenix!! lol!!!
posted on June 19, 2005 07:29:53 PM new
Didn't think this was going to be political until started that dredded googling and that is what came up. I usually use Yahoo for my searches and I will bet it wouldn't come up on that.
Oh well, learn something everyday. I wonder when the sweat shops quit using children and went to 18 yrs old and above. I can't remember when Kathy Lee found out where her clothes were made and I think they were by children. She even took the time to go and see for herself. I never heard the end result though, but I was happy to see that they weren't children.
It was a beautiful day today and I sure hope we have more of the same. I hope it was nice where you are.
_________________
posted on June 19, 2005 08:00:42 PM new
Profe51's post about Walmart and the beef industry is informative and I wasn't aware of that.
Next I doubt if they shop at Walmart, but I could be wrong.
Libra63, the other two ladies they interviewed were also shopping at Walmart, that's where they found them.
Whether it's a true story or not, the one factory owner said he tried to get Walmart to pay just one cent more per garment but instead they wanted to knock it down by another two cents when they negotiated.
***********************************
Maybe miss manner, the stuffy old women, would be appalled at the way crowfarm posts also and I must say the same for you. So what is my posting any different than anyone elses especially you when you have constantly said cram it up your ---
Yes, I've told a certain someone to cram it but at the same time I am not denying it and hiding behind that 'moral values' crap either.
If you are going to make this political, you should go back further than Clinton to be fair. I'm afraid it goes WAY back and stretches through both political parties.
posted on June 19, 2005 09:42:48 PM new
No Cheryl by the looks of some of the discussion of some of the posts someone has made it political not me. Who it was I can only guess, well I took her off ignore so I don't have to guess I know, just like every other thread in this roundtable. I only posted that article to show that the US did use sweat shops for the uniforms. They have been using sweat shops for years.
Yes Kiara you have told her that more than once. So you think that is acceptable? I don't denigh what I post either. Evidently what is acceptable to you is good, others can't do it. Evidently you are free to post as you wish, but nobody else can.
OK Kiara, I took off the ignore, and this is what crowfarm posted. do you find this acceptable?
Libra the brain dead nasty mean mouthed sick stupid dried up old excuse for a human being says
From the user agreement:
e) Abuse. Defame, abuse, harass, stalk, threaten or otherwise violate the legal rights (such as rights of privacy and publicity) of others
What do you think of that now? I have never addressed anyone like that, but since you are her friend you must find that acceptable. I don't get it. Now try and tell me that remember this is only a discussion board and don't take things personally, well I do. I have no enemies in real life, but since this isn't real she can say what she pleases. Don't worry I will keep this thread and any other thread that she addresses me like that.
posted on June 19, 2005 10:43:23 PM newYes Kiara you have told her that more than once. So you think that is acceptable?
Who cares ... it's my choice and I take responsibility for my actions.
The Miss Manners comment was just a joke for goodness sakes! Lighten up!
Libra63, I see it this way, you have choices.
1. Ignore crowfarm with a button or with your brain. Don't even mention her name here and don't discuss her at all. Put a sign on your monitor to remind you not to call her an idiot and then say she's on ignore.
2. Grow a spine and stand up to her and answer her back and take care of yourself.
3. Whine and tattle to Vendio while you continue to insult her and others here like calling them stupid idiots.
Now I've told you before that I enjoy some of your posts and your presence here adds to the board even though we don't seem to agree on much. But I doubt crowfarm is going to change for you so either ignore her or accept that she is the way she is. If you continue to insult her daily, pretending you've got her on ignore, you only get back what you give. JMHO
posted on June 20, 2005 06:02:29 AM new
The "L" sisters often says its too bad others like them have opinions. On this board there are a lot of good thoughts until the "L" sisters come along with their BULL ROAR.
posted on June 20, 2005 06:23:46 AM new
What kind of a life do you have bigpeepa, traveling around talking with maids.
Now I suppose we are supposed to tip the flea market guy, the one who takes your money at the gas station, Since I live in apartment I suppose you would like me to tip the mail lady, or the postal clerk, the person that cuts the grass and the people that shovel snow. How about the Sears guy that rotates the tires, the grocery clerk that checks me out and also the people at the bank where I deposit my money. Then there is the person that puts the money in the ATM's. This list gets longer and longer. But since my granddaughter just came it is time to spend time with her. Now you have a nice day tipping all the service people.
posted on June 20, 2005 06:32:04 AM new
Libra Hope you have a nice day with your grandaughter!
I notice you have gotten your instructions on how to be on this board or what you should do, say or post! lol!! But dont pay it too much mind because if kiara ever had an original thought in her life california would probably get sucked in the ocean or something.
posted on June 20, 2005 07:05:26 AM new
dblfugger9, go back and read. Libra63 addressed me and asked me if I thought it was acceptable and what did I think about it?
I answered her and ya, I know ..... once again I stated my opinion and it bothers you. Libra63 has options and she can do whatever she wishes to do, including whining to everyone else daily about bad bad crowfarm ..... her choice and only she has the power to decide what to do. It's that easy.
posted on June 20, 2005 07:19:31 AM new
No, you go back and read and try to comprehend something for what it is.
What she asked you is if what *crowfarm* posts is acceptable? But of course that is your opportunity to tell Libra what and how to post! ::eyeroll::
And she is not the one who calls crowfarm an "idiot", *I am! - so you dont even know what you are talking about here, because youre so busy assimilating my every word as if that could somehow make you look like you have a personality or ever an original idea!! (Like I said fat chance of that!) hahahaha!!!!
I have my granddaughter today, too. I watch her on my days off (Mon. and Tues.) and we have a ball. I'm off to go play catch in the backyard. That is, if all the Canadian Soldiers (or muckleheads or migs) are gone. They were swarming all over the place for the last three days. I think they came in with the last bad storm we had. Normally, they hang out over the lake.
posted on June 20, 2005 07:45:39 AM new
dblfugger9, it seems that the only original thought you ever have here is to haunt yourself and rag on me over my thoughts and opinions. Don't like what I say? Don't read it! Your choice.
Libra63's exact words.
She is a stupid idiot and that is why she is on my ignore.
posted on June 20, 2005 08:09:20 AM new
The only opinion you ever give is to rag on somebody else, kiara. Somebody you dont even know in real life. You're too immature or too afraid to discuss anything else.
oh and btw, I'm still waiting to see that flanders field poem that gets posted here every memorial day. I guess it just got passed on this year?!
But poor little tag-along and repeater parrot doesnt like anything pointed out to her,here tho. Too too bad! Whoever wrote immitation is the sincerest form of flattery, didnt know you thats for sure!
And stop telling people what to do. Do not tell me what to read on this board! Or what is the solution for YOU to not get haunted reading my or anybodys posts. Its Funny, the solution you always suggest is pretty much for your benefit to not get bothered or picked at - like you so like to do to others. Why dont you put Libra or myself on ignore if her or my posts bother you so much?
As for me, I'll read what I choose to read, and respond the way I choose to, too! Ya got it bonehead?
"The free man is he who does not fear to go to the end of his thought." ~Anonymous
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[ edited by dblfugger9 on Jun 20, 2005 08:26 AM ]
posted on June 20, 2005 08:22:56 AM new
Dblrugger9, clue in ... I'm not telling anyone here they have to post a certain way. I said it's THEIR choice.
BTW, if my plans go through in the next week or so I may be too busy to post here much. Great news for you then! You won't have all of MY opinions and posts from years gone by stifling and haunting you daily so you can actually move on and spread some of your own original thought across the board! Figured I’d warn you in advance so you can maybe use the time to think of some!
Oh ya, one more thing... everytime you said bad things were going to come to me I had the best luck of my life so keep wishing it for me!
posted on June 20, 2005 08:28:15 AM new
::What kind of a life do you have bigpeepa, traveling around talking with maids.::
Yeah - who the hell wants to travel? Why would anyone want to spend a life filled with new locations, new experiences, a little fun and adventure and actually being polite to those that surround you and make you more comfortable while you are doing it. EEEWWWWW That must be AWFUL!!! Why would you do that Peepa? Yukky!
::Now I suppose we are supposed to tip the flea market guy::
No
::the one who takes your money at the gas station::
Not anymore - you were supposed to when they were pumping the gas and checking your oil but not anymore.
::Since I live in apartment I suppose you would like me to tip the mail lady, or the postal clerk,::
Yes at Christmas. No money but a small gift or gift certificate is customary.
::the person that cuts the grass and the people that shovel snow.::
Yes at the end of the season.
::How about the Sears guy that rotates the tires, the grocery clerk that checks me out and also the people at the bank where I deposit my money.::
No
::Now you have a nice day tipping all the service people.::
You say that in such a snide manner Libra. I wonder what it is about your life that you have this strange need to put it on a pedestal above everyone elses with nearly clocklike regularity.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on June 20, 2005 08:31:49 AM new
::The only opinion you ever give is to rag on somebody else, kiara. Somebody you dont even know in real life. You're too immature or too afraid to discuss anything else.::
That's a rather interesting statement Dbl considering the percentage of your posts in which you sdo the exact same thing.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on June 20, 2005 08:36:00 AM newYou say that in such a snide manner Libra. I wonder what it is about your life that you have this strange need to put it on a pedestal above everyone elses with nearly clocklike regularity.
fenix, maybe she doesnt have it to tip and is feeling like somebody is trying to guilt or coerce her into it? Or maybe by nature she is just cheap. Some people just are ya know. (You know like classicrock, telling his wife they should leave Hershey Park to go buy a candy bar at the A&P!?) hahahaha!!
Sorry, but I didnt read it as her as trying to put her life on a pedestal, just being sarcastic as to have far one can go with 'tipping' and if you dont have it, it can feel like its getting out of hand sometimes,
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[ edited by dblfugger9 on Jun 20, 2005 08:47 AM ]
posted on June 20, 2005 08:38:36 AM new
no, fenix, I give lots of opinions on lots of subjects that have nothing to do with posters here themselves. Youll probably have to pull some and statistictize them for comparison or your proof tho! And you calling Libra 'snide' is really big laugh. You are the king of snide on this board!
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[ edited by dblfugger9 on Jun 20, 2005 08:41 AM ]
It happens every now and again.
