fenix03
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posted on June 29, 2005 09:59:45 PM new
::I don't think our country would have so readily consented to go to war with Iraq::
We didn't readily consent to war in Iraq Mags. The only action we readily consented to were the ones in Afganistan that were supposed to net Bin Laden. Once there was support for that one Bush decided to push the envelop and the truth and somehow try to sell the american public that Iraq was also involved (he forgot to mention that he would forget about Bin Laden the minute he invaded Iraq). Unfortunately there are some here that bought the story lock stock and barrel.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
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Linda_K
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posted on June 29, 2005 10:08:34 PM new
But of course the liberation of Iraq had everything to do with 9/11. As Bush said last night:
The terrorists can kill the innocent, but they cannot stop the advance of freedom. The only way our enemies can succeed is if we forget the lessons of September the 11th, if we abandon the Iraqi people to men like [Abu Musab al] Zarqawi, and if we yield the future of the Middle East to men like Bin Laden. For the sake of our nation's security, this will not happen on my watch.
Or, as Andrew Sullivan put it in March 2003:
Rather than simply forestall crises, postpone them, avoid them or fob them off onto others, Bush is actually doing the hard thing. He's calling for real democracy in the Middle East. He's aiming to make the long-standing U.S. policy of regime change in Iraq a reality. He actually wants to defeat Islamist terrorism, rather than make excuses for tolerating its cancerous growth.
The counterargument is that 9/11 was just a one-off, justifying maybe the liberation of Afghanistan (though the liberal left is not united even behind this proposition), but nothing more. In the case of Iraq, the idea seems to be that because Saddam Hussein did not personally fly the planes into the World Trade Center, he and Zarqawi should be free to kill as many Iraqis as they please.
Even if there was a reasonable argument against liberating Iraq, that debate was settled when Congress voted, overwhelmingly and with bipartisan support, to authorize the war in October 2002.
The Democrats today seem more interested in angling for political advantage and rehashing old complaints than in winning the war in which the country is now engaged.
This is not the sign of a serious political party.
WSJ op-ed
---
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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fenix03
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posted on June 29, 2005 10:29:12 PM new
Case in point.....
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
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kiara
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posted on June 29, 2005 10:55:34 PM new
Yes, many bought the story of the 9/11 connection. That's why Bush mentioned 9/11 in his speech so often as he was appealing to those who don't pay attention to 'facts'.
Bush appeals to many who will only grasp the 'dumbed down' version of events according to the government and that's all they will ever believe as it would never occur to them to ever question their government. Even when the story changes and the reasons change for being in Iraq they will never question it because of their blind loyalty.
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kiara
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posted on June 29, 2005 11:02:34 PM new
There is now less electricity being generated in Iraq than last year at this time and less water. There is still terrible looting of the antiquities and archeological sites of some of the ancient cities and their heritage is being destroyed.
Like others have said, to use Iraq as an arena to fight terrorists when they weren't there to begin with is unfair and I doubt the people will forget all that has happened to them.
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Linda_K
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posted on June 29, 2005 11:24:11 PM new
Solutions????? I hear no suggestions/solutions coming from the liberals....or the anti-war folks. NONE!!!
Just the constant stream of blame that we've heard for 2 years now.
Even the NYT editorial page is calling on all you angry dems to stop...and get focused on winning this war. 
If you don't follow their suggestions.....you'll be seeing many more elections where you're left with your mouths hanging open in surprise that you've lost again.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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Linda_K
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posted on June 29, 2005 11:35:00 PM new
And from another democrat on Iraq:
"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists."
Bill Clinton
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Jun 29, 2005 11:37 PM ]
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kiara
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posted on June 29, 2005 11:35:10 PM new
I'm not a Democrat but I kind of resent that they are being blamed so much lately for the worsening conditions in Iraq as if it's their fault that so many mistakes have been made and it's up to them to find all the solutions. The fingers should be pointed at Bush and the government and not at the Democrats.
I didn't hear anything new in Bush's speech last night about solutions to the war. If this administration was serious about really winning this war you would think by now they would be allowing other countries to train some of the security officers as they offered to. They would be trying harder to control some of the main routes in from Syria also.
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Linda_K
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posted on June 29, 2005 11:39:40 PM new
lol....so our little Canadian neighbor....you might want to write a letter to our commanders on the ground in Iraq and share your precious little 'anti-war' ideas with them. See what response you get then.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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kiara
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posted on June 29, 2005 11:50:22 PM new
I'm not anti-war. This just wasn't the right war to support. Believe me, the commanders on the ground do know the real situation.... don't ever fool yourself.
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Linda_K
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posted on June 29, 2005 11:55:00 PM new
lol...it surprises me that you'd actually defend our commanders, kiara. Good for you....now you're beginning to touch base with reality.
Just so you don't go forgetting that our Presidents are our commander-in-chiefs. They make the final call.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction...So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real."
Sen. John F. Kerry, Jan. 23. 2003
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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Linda_K
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posted on June 30, 2005 12:00:01 AM new
"Saddam's goal...is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed."
Madeline Albright
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy, Sept. 27, 2002.
~~~~~~
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Jun 30, 2005 12:06 AM ]
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kiara
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posted on June 30, 2005 12:04:33 AM new
I will always defend the commanders on the ground and the troops that see the reality of Iraq firsthand. That's why I don't laugh and compare them to traffic stats as you do when they get injured or die.
Just so you don't go forgetting that our Presidents are our commander-in-chiefs.
Your president is just a figurehead...... a talking head. He isn't on the ground with the troops and he's clueless to the reality of daily battles in Iraq. He's also a coward that would never go 'on the ground' with the troops to see that reality firsthand and everyone knows it.
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Linda_K
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posted on June 30, 2005 12:09:54 AM new
LOL...there you go again....stating untruths kiara.
Our ground commanders do report to their superiors and it goes all the way up the line to the President.....so you're wrong on that count..
...and you're wrong on President Bush not being on the group with our troops too. He was....right in the worse of the battle. No coward there.....but then it doesn't surprise me coming from you.
Still pulling a BIG ZERO.....
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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kiara
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posted on June 30, 2005 12:24:05 AM new
Our ground commanders do report to their superiors and it goes all the way up the line to the President.....so you're wrong on that count..
Wrong on what count? Where did I say that they didn't report to their superiors?? We all know that whatever is said publicly is usually what the government wants them to say or their job is over.
...and you're wrong on President Bush not being on the group with our troops too. He was....right in the worse of the battle.
Show me where Bush was in Fallujah in full gear like the troops and fighting those terrorists along with them cause I must have missed that one along with everyone else in this world. Hahahaha..... is that how you picture him?
Got any pics? Or is that top secret like those reconstruction pics of Iraq?
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kiara
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posted on June 30, 2005 12:25:55 AM new
G'nite, Linda_k! 
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WashingtoneBayer
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posted on June 30, 2005 05:05:07 AM new
There are no new reconstruction pics, seems like the media would rather focus on the negative.
Do you know who is doing the looting? Why isn't the Iraqi security forces even protecting that? They certainly aren't protecting much else.
President Bush had the right idea and I still support us being in Iraq, but we are not forcing the Iraqis to realize they need to secure their own country.
Until we as a country are united on Iraq, the insurgents will continue.
Ron
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fenix03
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posted on June 30, 2005 06:27:32 AM new
::Solutions????? I hear no suggestions/solutions coming from the liberals....or the anti-war folks. NONE!!!
Just the constant stream of blame that we've heard for 2 years now.::
Well then you might want to start looking into having your short term memory tested Linda because not only did I suggest what steps we should take but you mocked them in this very thread. You really just don't pay any attention to that which does not fall into lockstep with your beliefs these days do you Linda?
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
[ edited by fenix03 on Jun 30, 2005 06:29 AM ]
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profe51
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posted on June 30, 2005 07:08:32 AM new
...and you're wrong on President Bush not being on the group with our troops too. He was....right in the worse of the battle.
Yeah, carrying a new secret anti-terror weapon...a fake thanksgiving turkey.
____________________________________________
Fue por lana y saliσ trasquilado...
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profe51
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posted on June 30, 2005 07:16:13 AM new
In the heat of battle...
____________________________________________
Fue por lana y saliσ trasquilado...
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Linda_K
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posted on June 30, 2005 07:18:55 AM new
lol fenix - No, and I even responded to what you said. I told you were were already doing that because you didn't appear to know we were.
-----------
And profe, perhaps you missed the fact that he dished up the meals for some of our troops, plus offered them support for their efforts that they very much appreciated and gave him a standing ovation.
Plus he's the FIRST president to even step on Iraqi soil....and he did so at a very dangerous time in the war.
Not that I'd expect any liberal here to give him even that tiny bit of recognition.
yep....it's the angry left alright.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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Helenjw
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posted on June 30, 2005 07:42:24 AM new
...and he did so at a very dangerous time in the war
For a few hours, his presence in the area both on land and air endangered the troops on the ground and could have created a crisis at home. But he was more concerned with his photo opportunity with a fake turkey.
[ edited by Helenjw on Jun 30, 2005 07:43 AM ]
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Linda_K
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posted on June 30, 2005 07:49:29 AM new
LOL...you and kiara act as though you think you're military commanders yourselves...and know what should and shouldn't happen for their safety, what's in their best interests...LOL Two anti-Iraqi protestors. Yea, they'll be sure and listen to your concerns.
kiara and helen playing 'good cop, bad cop'. kiara says he's a coward for not doing so...then helen blames him for doing so while endangering our troops.
funny to read.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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Helenjw
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posted on June 30, 2005 08:17:34 AM new
"kiara and helen playing 'good cop, bad cop'. kiara says he's a coward for not doing so...then helen blames him for doing so while endangering our troops."
What in the hell is the meaning of that statement, linda? What are you referring to when you write, "doing so"? Doing what???
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fenix03
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posted on June 30, 2005 08:34:53 AM new
::I told you were were already doing that because you didn't appear to know we were.::
You probably should inform the Iraqi people because they still don't have consistant power or running water in major areas and they still don't have a constitution. You probably should tell Fox News that as well because even they acknowledge that the infastructure is not there.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
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maggiemuggins
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posted on June 30, 2005 08:40:01 AM new
Off topic for a second please.. I've been trying to post a reply in the Dragon Awakens thread and I can't do it? It only shows Post new topic.. doesn't give me a reply option..
Could someone else check it out and let me know if it is the same for you. Thanks M
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Helenjw
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posted on June 30, 2005 08:52:50 AM new
(Maggie, I had the same problem last year with a thread...wait a while and it's usually straightened out.}
"The Iraq Avalanche Cannot be Stopped"
There is no "solution" to this mess; it is sometimes not possible to "fix" things which have been broken. I can see no course of action which will prevent widespread violence, regional social upheaval, and economic hammering administered by oil price shocks. This is why so many of us opposed the invasion of Iraq so strenuously in the first place! We thought that it would unleash irreversible adverse consequences for (conventionally defined) US interests in the region. I am very sorry to say that I still think we were right.
............
I think it is delusional to imagine that there exists a "solution" to the mess in Iraq. From this perspective, the folly of Bush, Cheney and Company in invading Iraq is even worse than most informed observers of the region already think. Starting an avalanche is certainly criminal. It does not follow, however, that such a phenomenon can be stopped once it has begun.
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kiara
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posted on June 30, 2005 08:56:38 AM new
Excellent pic, Profe51! In the heat of battle.... Hahahahaha.....
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Helenjw
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posted on June 30, 2005 08:58:32 AM new
"I've been trying to post a reply in the Dragon Awakens thread and I can't do it? It only shows Post new topic.. doesn't give me a reply option..
Could someone else check it out and let me know if it is the same for you. Thanks M"
Maggie, it shows post reply now...
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kiara
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posted on June 30, 2005 09:01:22 AM new
LOL Two anti-Iraqi protestors.
Linda_k, you say Helen and I are 'anti-Iraqi' when we've shown nothing but support for them from the very beginning of the war when the looting started and others were laughing. Heck, YOU are the most anti-Iraqi person on this board. You have no understanding of them at all, blaming them constantly for everything that has happened to them and you still consider them the 'enemy' responsible for 9/11 as you feed on all the propaganda.
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