posted on June 30, 2005 12:45:09 PM newWe need to start helping them get their government in order and get an internal works structure built and then start getting the hell out of dodge and let the people of Iraq start taking care of their own business.
That is part of what you stated and what I was responding to fenix.
WE liberated them. WE then set up a system so they could vote. WE then starting training their people so they could defend themselves. WE established their new economy/new currency...etc. And WE have been making repairs to a lot of their structure. And WE have set up and established schools, hospitals..etc...etc...etc.
And that's why I said we're ALREADY doing what you suggested.
No need to inform them....we and the Iraqi's already know what's been done.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 30, 2005 12:49:25 PM new
LOL @ kiara....who now appears to be reversing herself again....both on whether she did or didn't support this war on Iraq [we've been over and over that game playing] then now...supposedly she DOES support and listen to the commanders.....now it's all propoganda.
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Then of course, we have helen with her own and any other defeatist article she can find. tsk tsk. Thank heaven you and those who think like you aren't running the program....you give up WAY to easily.
negativity, negativity all the way....that's appears to be helen's motto. The "Admit defeat" ultra-liberal.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 30, 2005 01:02:04 PM new
::And WE have been making repairs to a lot of their structure. And WE have set up and established schools, hospitals .. etc... etc... etc.::
And yet they still have less than they did before WE got there. WE need to realize that this is not OUR country/property. WE need to try to put thing back as WE found them and then WE need to get the hell out and let THEM rule themselves. WE need to stop being the inviting factor for insurgents and then say that WE cannot leave while they are still there.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
[ edited by fenix03 on Jun 30, 2005 01:02 PM ]
posted on June 30, 2005 01:16:24 PM newLOL @ kiara....who now appears to be reversing herself again....both on whether she did or didn't support this war on Iraq
Who's playing games, Linda_k? How slow do I have to type before you comprehend what I say? Or is this a big surprise to you because you formed a stupid and untrue image of me in your mind and ran with it for months/years without ever once listening to what I really said here or what I truly believe?
I supported any country that went into Afghanistan after 9/11 to hunt for Osama. I did not support the US going into Iraq on their phony invasion aka war based on lies. I have never said that they should just pull out as it would be unfair to the Iraqis after all the harm they've done to their country. But now I believe that they should try to make a bigger effort to help the Iraqis handle their own country and that means allowing other countries to help train the Iraqi security forces the proper way instead of a day or so training.
Yes, the generals/commanders/troops who are fighting on the ground see the reality of the war and I have always supported their efforts. No, your idol Bush was not on the ground with the troops seeing the battle firsthand and he's feeding the propaganda, not the truth of the situation. Got it now?
posted on June 30, 2005 01:20:11 PM new
A lot of what was done was done before we even got there. Anyone who reads about post-war Iraq has noted that saddam had let the country fall in to disrepair...totally....while building all is palaces...and paying the terrorist to act as human bombs.
And I'm glad we've elected a President who doesn't agree with the cut-and-run crowd. And a Congress who still continues to support our presense there.
We're either going to win this war or do as te cut-and-crowd suggests....come home and wait until they attack us again. I support fighting them over there not on our own land.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 30, 2005 01:40:27 PM new
::A lot of what was done was done before we even got there. Anyone who reads about post-war Iraq has noted that saddam had let the country fall in to disrepair...totally....while building all is palaces...and paying the terrorist to act as human bombs::
Linda - are you trying to say that they did not have power and running water because I'll give you the numbers of half a dozen people from various areas of Iraq who still have family members there who will attest that they did and to the beauty of cities that are now reduced to rubble.
Could we please stop trying to rewrite history.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
The cousin, his wife S. and their two daughters have been houseguests these last three days. They drove up to the house a couple of days ago with several bags of laundry. “There hasn’t been water in our area for three days…” The cousins wife huffed as she dragged along a black plastic bag of dirty clothes. “The water came late last night and disappeared three hours later… what about you?” Our water had not been cut off completely, but it came and went during the day.
Water has been a big problem in many areas all over Baghdad. Houses without electric water pumps don’t always have access to water. Today it was the same situation in most of the areas. They say the water came for a couple of hours and then disappeared again. We’re filling up plastic containers and pots just to be on the safe side. It is not a good idea to be caught without water in the June heat in Iraq.
.........
The electrical situation differs from area to area. On some days, the electricity schedule is two hours of electricity, and then four hours of no electricity. On other days, it’s four hours of electricity to four or six hours of no electricity. The problem is that the last couple of weeks, we don’t have electricity in the mornings for some reason. Our local generator is off until almost 11 am, and the house generator allows for ceiling fans (or “pankas”), the refrigerator, television and a few other appliances. Air conditioners cannot be turned on and the heat is oppressive by 8 am these days.
Detentions and assassinations, along with intermittent electricity, have also been contributing to sleepless nights. We’re hearing about raids in many areas in the Karkh half of Baghdad in particular. On the television the talk about ‘terrorists’ being arrested, but there are dozens of people being rounded up for no particular reason. Almost every Iraqi family can give the name of a friend or relative who is in one of the many American prisons for no particular reason. They aren’t allowed to see lawyers or have visitors and stories of torture have become commonplace. Both Sunni and Shia clerics who are in opposition to the occupation are particularly prone to attacks by “Liwa il Theeb” or the special Iraqi forces Wolf Brigade. They are often tortured during interrogation and some of them are found dead.
There were also several explosions and road blocks today. It took the cousin an hour to get to work, which was only twenty minutes away before the war. Now, he has to navigate between closed streets, check points, and those delightful concrete barriers rising up everywhere. It is especially difficult to be caught in traffic and that happens a lot lately. Baghdad has been cut up into sections and several of them may be found to be off limits immediately after an explosion or before a Puppet meeting. The least pleasant situation is to be caught in mid-day traffic, on a crowded road, in the heat- waiting for the next bomb to go off.
What people find particularly frustrating is the fact that while Baghdad seems to be falling apart in so many ways with roads broken and pitted, buildings blasted and burnt out and residential areas often swimming in sewage, the Green Zone is flourishing. The walls surrounding restricted areas housing Americans and Puppets have gotten higher- as if vying with the tallest of date palms for height. The concrete reinforcements and road blocks designed to slow and impede traffic are now a part of everyday scenery- the road, the trees, the shops, the earth, the sky… and the ugly concrete slabs sometimes wound insidiously with barbed wire.
The price of building materials has gone up unbelievably, in spite of the fact that major reconstruction has not yet begun. I assumed it was because so much of the concrete and other building materials was going to reinforce the restricted areas. A friend who recently got involved working with an Iraqi subcontractor who takes projects inside of the Green Zone explained that it was more than that. The Green Zone, he told us, is a city in itself. He came back awed, and more than a little bit upset. He talked of designs and plans being made for everything from the future US Embassy and the housing complex that will surround it, to restaurants, shops, fitness centers, gasoline stations, constant electricity and water- a virtual country inside of a country with its own rules, regulations and government. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Republic of the Green Zone, also known as the Green Republic.
“The Americans won’t be out in less than ten years.” Is how the argument often begins with the friend who has entered the Green Republic. “How can you say that?” Is usually my answer- and I begin to throw around numbers- 2007, 2008 maximum… Could they possibly want to be here longer? Can they afford to be here longer? At this, T. shakes his head- if you could see the bases they are planning to build- if you could see what already has been built- you’d know that they are going to be here for quite a while.
The Green Zone is a source of consternation and aggravation for the typical Iraqi. It makes us anxious because it symbolises the heart of the occupation and if fortifications and barricades are any indicator- the occupation is going to be here for a long time. It is a provocation because no matter how anyone tries to explain or justify it, it is like a slap in the face. It tells us that while we are citizens in our own country, our comings and goings are restricted because portions of the country no longer belong to its people. They belong to the people living in the Green Republic.
posted on June 30, 2005 02:36:43 PM new
lol....if you lefties would only read something other than all the defeatist articles....you will see and learn what accomplishments have been made in Iraq. But...no....you choose to take three or four cases and use that to represent the whole of the country.
Read all the "Good News From Iraq" threads I've posted over and over....THERE you will hear and learn which countries are helping Iraq out in which areas.
And on the electrical issue, fenix....right now...currently it is up to where it was when we invaded. Check Chernoff's site where he gives updates from all around the world on what IS being accomplished there. But of course, we have the continuation of the terrorists who go right behind the re-building that is being done....blowing themselves and any others around them up.
I know NOTHING will convince you liberals that good things have and are taking place in Iraq. But none-the-less they are. And now they're supposed to have a Constitituion written by August...and to be voting on it by December. Those are the MOST important and encouraging items that are being addressed at the current time.
Baby steps....along the path to freedom and self-governance for the Iraqi people. That's the goal...THEN and only THEN do we think about reducing our troop levels. Their leaders WANT us to STAY there.....and our leaders want us to stay there until the above accomplishments are met and until reasonable safety can be guaranteed.
Those who wish us to withdraw would only be saying to the terrorists...."okay, you've defeated us....and now we'll leave so the AQ and Taliban can set up housekeeping in Iraq.
Our soldiers haven't given their lives for that to happen. I know they will complete and be successful at their mission.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 30, 2005 03:10:41 PM new
So Linda- do you mind telling me why you feel we liberated a country of people with no spine and no abilities. I mean if you are so convinced that these people will take up residence in the country as soon as we leave you have quite obviously written off all abilities of the Iraqi people to take care of themselves. Also - are you saying that we are going to stay in Iraq until all terrorist organizations worldwide are eradicated? I mean the taliban is in Afganistan. Are we going to have to clear afganistan before we leave Iraq? If the Taliban is a big fear, maybe were should have kept our focus on them before we spread out to control other arab nations.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on June 30, 2005 03:10:48 PM new
Wake up, linda....We have lost the war in Afghanistan and in Iraq. Your effort to twist reality into a lie is disgusting.
posted on June 30, 2005 07:07:08 PM newAnd on the electrical issue, fenix....right now...currently it is up to where it was when we invaded.
No, it's only about 65% of pre-invasion output.
June was one of the deadliest months of combat for U.S. troops since the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq 28 months ago.
At the close of 2003, U.S. commanders put the number of insurgents at 5,000. On Thursday in Baghdad, U.S. Brig. Gen. Donald Alston said there were between 15,000 and 20,000 insurgents, though he said not all of them fight every day.
Infectious diseases such as typhoid and hepatitis are on the rise from sewer-system damage that allows wastewater to mix with drinking water and from oil spills into the rivers caused by insurgent attacks on pipelines.
Little progress has been made in repairing leaks and breakages because neither Iraqi technicians nor U.S.-led forces can work safely at the sites that, like the rest of the country, are vulnerable to insurgent bombings and drive-by shootings.
posted on June 30, 2005 07:53:24 PM newdo you mind telling me why you feel we liberated a country of people with no spine and no abilities.
I don't feel that way.
I mean if you are so convinced that these people will take up residence in the country as soon as we leave you have quite obviously written off all abilities of the Iraqi people to take care of themselves.
Nope I haven't.
Also - are you saying that we are going to stay in Iraq until all terrorist organizations worldwide are eradicated?
Nope, not saying that at all.
I mean the taliban is in Afganistan. Are we going to have to clear afganistan before we leave Iraq? If the Taliban is a big fear, maybe were should have kept our focus on them before we spread out to control other arab nations.
You lefties will NEVER get the importance of what we're fighting. Why?? I sure won't ever understand.
Spreading??? Kept them confined? lol...you're joking right? They were already IN at least 60 different countries before we even went into Afghanistan.
----------------
Well, kiara...you're info is different than that that is being reported on the Chernoff site. And those people are actually on the ground. I'll take their word over yours. Their electricity is a little bit BETTER than it was pre-invasion. But many have bought airconditions, fridges, etc...and it's been stated they're using these applicance to a greater degree than they were before...thus consuming more electricity.
---------------
and then there's the 'quitter/surrender' 'admit defeat now', helen. No, helen, we haven't lost either war and we're not going to. But I do understand how unhappy you are about that....doesn't fit in with your pro-American agenda.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
Remember George Lakoff, the Berkeley linguist whose (actually quite banal) advice on how to "frame" issues the Democrats have been lapping up? Check out the first paragraph of an essay he contributed yesterday to the Huffington Post:
For a while last week, the Democrats were doing better at framing the issues. The poll numbers showed that Bush's approval rating was down, that around 60% of the voters had turned against the Iraq War, that support for Bush on his handling of 911 and terrorism was lower, but still pretty high.
Lakoff has just said that a political goal of the Democratic Party is to turn the American people against the war the country is now fighting.
Perhaps the Dems will now demand that Lakoff desist from questioning their patriotism.
Yea, just like helen's supporting our troops....NOT!!! I'd sure like to here their responses helen, if you make that 'we've lost' statement to them.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 30, 2005 08:10:24 PM new
And then....read just how different it would have been HAD kerry been elected. [thank you Lord for all favors big and small ]
Iraq and Sept. 11
In light of all the bizarre Democratic carping over President Bush linking Sept. 11 to terrorism in Iraq, it's worth going back to a speech one senator gave in October 2002 explaining his vote for the liberation of Iraq:
September 11 changed a lot, but other things have changed: Globalization, technology, a smaller planet, the difficulties of radical fundamentalism, the crosscurrents of religion and politics. We are living in an age where the dangers are different and they require a different response, different thinking, and different approaches than we have applied in the past. . . .
A brutal, oppressive dictator, guilty of personally murdering and condoning murder and torture, grotesque violence against women, execution of political opponents, a war criminal who used chemical weapons against another nation and, of course, as we know, against his own people, the Kurds. He has diverted funds from the Oil-for-Food program, intended by the international community to go to his own people. He has supported and harbored terrorist groups, particularly radical Palestinian groups such as Abu Nidal, and he has given money to families of suicide murderers in Israel.
The man who gave that speech, was, of course, John Kerry*. [i]you know...the constant FLIP-FLOPPER[i]
---
In the same speech, Kerry faulted Bush for waiting so long to deal with the menace of Saddam Hussein:
The administration missed an opportunity 2 years ago [sic; two years before this speech, Bill Clinton was still president] and particularly a year ago after September 11. They regrettably, and even clumsily, complicated their own case. The events of September 11 created new understanding of the terrorist threat and the degree to which every nation is vulnerable.
That understanding enabled the administration to form a broad and impressive coalition against terrorism. Had the administration tried then to capitalize on this unity of spirit to build a coalition to disarm Iraq, we would not be here in the pressing days before an election, late in this year, debating this now.
The administration's decision to engage on this issue now, rather than a year ago or earlier, and the manner in which it has engaged, has politicized and complicated the national debate and raised questions about the credibility of their case.
In fact, Kerry mentioned Sept. 11--the subject liberals now want to render taboo--six times during his Iraq floor speech.
In an e-mail to supporters yesterday, Kerry blasted Bush for engaging in "campaign style rhetoric" in his Tuesday speech at Fort Bragg, N.C. Then he unearthed an old chestnut from his own losing campaign: "We saw what happened after 9/11, in the mountains of Tora Bora, when the administration took its eyes off the ball when it came to hunting down and capturing Osama Bin Laden."
Just after Bush's speech, Kerry appeared on "Larry King Live," and guest host Bob Costas asked him the obvious question, which he couldn't or wouldn't answer:
Costas: If you had been elected president last November, by this point what would President John Kerry have done in Iraq?
Kerry: Well, I laid out--you know, I don't want to get in--I mean, I think that's not quite the way to go at it.
oh yea, sounds REAL BRIGHT to me
As Andrew Sullivan wrote in March 2002,
"I respect a good opposition raising important, concrete questions about tactics and strategy in a war. But I suspect whiners who are angling for political advantage at the possible expense of this country's security, and our troops' safety."
---
* The haughty, French-looking Massachusetts Democrat, who by the way served in Vietnam.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And yes, three years later that's being proven to be true. The left is once again 'angling for political advantage and the expense of this countries national security and our troops safety.'
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 30, 2005 08:18:55 PM new
LOL....then we have another choice the dems have made....to put their 'BLUNDER of thunder' howard dean as DNC chairman. Best thing they even did to help the republicans win some more seats.
The man is a doctor???? Was a Senator??? He's an absolute idiot who can't answer even simple questions to defend his own party. Do they not ever speak to him?
'Ask Them Yourself'
Here's an odd exchange from last night's "Hardball" between host Chris Matthews and Democratic National Committee chairman
Howard Dean:
Matthews: If the war in Iraq was a blunder, why don't the top Democrats join you in saying so?
Dean: Well, I don't know. I mean, many of them have said that they thought the president is mishandling this.
Matthews: No. Name one who has.
then get this...
Dean: Well, I know that a number of people have said that the president is mishandling this situation.
Matthews: No, that is working around the edges of policy. That's micromanaging a war. I'm asking you, why don't they agree with you on policy and say so? Blunder is a big word. I think it's the first time I heard somebody say it. Why don't the top names, the name brands of the Democratic Party use the word blunder when they talk about the war?
Bill Clinton still stands with the president.
Hillary Clinton stands with the president.
Joe Lieberman stands with the president.
They all do. Joe Biden, the ranking Democrat, stands with the president.
You're out there alone still saying it's a blunder.
Dean: Well, I thought it was at the time. I mean, I--
Matthews: You still do. You just said so.
Dean: Well, I do. I mean, I thought it was at the--
Matthews: Why don't they?
Dean: Well, I don't know. You could have them on the show and ask them yourself.
that's the best he could do - and the dems are counting on him to help them out? oh boy are you in BIG trouble. LOL LOL LOL
[What's oddest about this is that we can think of quite a few top Democrats other than Dean who have been totally and consistently opposed to Iraq's liberation: Reps. Nancy Pelosi, the minority leader, and Charles Rangel, the ranking member of the Ways and Means committee; and Sens. Carl Levin, the ranking member of the Armed Services Committee, and Robert Byrd, the ranking member of the Appropriations Committee and the longest-serving member of the Senate. Dean could have answered Matthews's question, if he knew more about the elected officials from his own party.]
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 30, 2005 08:27:52 PM newWell, kiara...you're info is different than that that is being reported on the Chernoff site. And those people are actually on the ground. I'll take their word over yours. Their electricity is a little bit BETTER than it was pre-invasion.
Who/what is Chernoff?
Your search - iraq electricity chernoff "iraq electricity chernoff" - did not match any documents.
posted on June 30, 2005 10:01:26 PM new
Well Linda - if that is what you believe, then why did you make this statement?
Those who wish us to withdraw would only be saying to the terrorists...."okay, you've defeated us....and now we'll leave so the AQ and Taliban can set up housekeeping in Iraq.
Which would imply that the only thing that keeps these groups from doing so is our presence so either you think we cannot ever leave or at least not while those groups are still in existance.
At some point in time Linda, we have to leave, we have to entrust Iraq to the Iraqi people. Since the people we are fighting now are people that are coming to Iraq in order to fight us why do you believe that things will be made better by our continued presence. All we are doing is drawing more of these problem issues to the country. How is that a positive force?
And by the way, since I grant you the respect to address you as an individual I would really appreciate it if you could stop with the "you liberals" and referring to big generalizations that generally do not address what it is that I am actually saying.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on June 30, 2005 10:56:05 PM new
fenix - Your objection to being called what you have called yourself in your posts, a liberal, surprises me. Are you or are you not a liberal?
And I've answered your questions what seems like a million times. Yes, we need to stay there UNTIL the Iraqi's can train enough forces to defend themselves. Until that time they need our presense.
And there are other terrorists who have come to Iraq to fight our soldiers. That happened immediately following the major part of the Afghanistan war. The terrorists called on their supporters to head to Iraq and help saddam. That's old news.
And again, yes, for at least the hundredth time....I think it's better for us to remain in Iraq and fight the terrorists there. How many times do I have to repeat myself before it's understood that I'd rather see this war in Iraq than on our own soil?
And why is it that the 'pull-out' liberals don't answer any questions I put to them? Why can't any of you answer just what you think WOULD happen if we pull out and come home? You think the terrorists are going to all of a sudden decide the US is nicer now and leave us alone? I sure don't. You think the AQ that's now in Iraq are just going elsewhere, rather than set up training camps in Iraq like they did in Afghanistan?
-----------
kiara - why don't you act like a big grown up and do a search on 'iraq electricity above pre-war levels'....and read for yourself that happened LAST YEAR. It's just that Iraqi's are doing so well....and can afford many appliances that are causing a need for MORE electricity....and re-construction is always making a demand on their electrical grids...that were being held together with chewing gum and tape and in MUCH need of repair....and that DOESN'T mean they don't have what they did BEFORE we went into their country.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 30, 2005 11:18:47 PM new
You don't have to be so testy, Linda_k. YOU mentioned Chernoff and since I had never heard of him/it all I did was ask. I did find a Chernoff.org and it has a dog on the site but I didn't see anything about electricity in Iraq. So who is Chernoff and why are their stats to be believed over the ones I found?
posted on June 30, 2005 11:24:28 PM new
LOL....here, I'll say it again.
kiara - why don't you act like a big grown up and do a search on 'iraq electricity above pre-war levels'....and read for yourself that happened LAST YEAR. It's just that Iraqi's are doing so well....and can afford many appliances that are causing a need for MORE electricity....and re-construction is always making a demand on their electrical grids...that were being held together with chewing gum and tape and in MUCH need of repair....and that DOESN'T mean they don't have what they did BEFORE we went into their country.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on June 30, 2005 11:31:50 PM newWell, kiara...you're info is different than that that is being reported on the Chernoff site. And those people are actually on the ground. I'll take their word over yours.
Is there a reason why you won't tell me who Chernoff is or what the site is? Or is he an invisible person that you made up in your mind who convinces you that life is great in Iraq?
posted on June 30, 2005 11:38:44 PM new
lol....yes, there's a reason....because I've posted his site many, many times and all the info was there for you 'non-believers' to read.
If you didn't that's your problem. I've read on several sites, include mainstream media like ABC, etc. about this in 2004. Because YOU read something that's given you incorrect information is not my problem. So...if you'd like to find out the real truth...you're quite capable of doing a google search and reading for yourself. I'm not your nurse-maid kiara...you're suppose to be able to do things for yourself.
Funny that you ask who or what it is....but now know it's a "he"
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on July 1, 2005 12:02:38 AM new
Since you said 'those people' from the Chernoff site were on the ground I figured it had to be real people which could be a 'he'.
Then when a search for the site showed a dog squirming out of its diaper I kind of wondered if it was a mascot or something. I think you just made that guy up in your head and he speaks to you about Iraq otherwise you'd be posting the site by now to prove to me that Chernoff knows more than the rest of us about Iraq. Or is Chernoff your son?
posted on July 1, 2005 12:25:44 AM new
The Electricity Minister Muhsin Shalash quoted the 65% figure I gave. That's why I was wondering who Chernoff is.
*********************************
June 30, 2005
THE CONFLICT IN IRAQ
Air Quality an Overlooked Casualty of War
Baghdad's electricity shortage has spawned a city of gas-run generators, a prime source of the growing pollution problem.
Electricity Minister Muhsin Shalash warned recently that the ad hoc gasoline-run electricity generators already blighting Baghdad would continue to proliferate as the mercury climbs between now and September and residents rely on them to run air conditioners and appliances.
"The situation is dire, and it won't improve for years," Shalash said, recalling that Iraq had the best electricity system in the Middle East before two decades of war and international sanctions derailed maintenance and investment.
More than two years after the fall of President Saddam Hussein, with reconstruction programs running well behind schedule because of the widespread insurgency, residents of Baghdad dependent on the public power grid usually get only six to eight hours of service per day. The electricity usually comes in three increments, separated by four- to six-hour blackouts.
With the nation's power plants producing about 65% of pre-invasion output, according to Shalash, tens of thousands of Iraqis have taken matters into their own hands by buying gas-powered generators or tapping into miniature electric stations set up illegally in their neighborhoods.
posted on July 1, 2005 05:27:03 AM new"And why is it that the 'pull-out' liberals don't answer any questions I put to them? Why can't any of you answer just what you think WOULD happen if we pull out and come home? You think the terrorists are going to all of a sudden decide the US is nicer now and leave us alone? I sure don't. You think the AQ that's now in Iraq are just going elsewhere, rather than set up training camps in Iraq like they did in Afghanistan?
You "shock and awe" conservatives failed to consider those questions before the invasion of Iraq and that is the reason that we are in this mess, Linda,.You radical conservatives got us into this war and now there is NO lovely way to get out. We will not leave the Iraqis in better shape than they were before we arrived because we have trashed the infrastructure of the country, killed thousands, inflamed factions within the country and in addition to attracting foreign terrorists, our actions and occupation of Iraq has created terrorists where none existed previously. It should be clear to you by now that the Bush administration has no answer. Bush can't even keep on target with a reason for being there. If the questions that you are now asking had been asked and carefully considered...we would not be in Iraq. Bush's father considered these problems when he made the decision not to invade Iraq.
From the book, "A World Transformed" by President George H. Bush and Brent Scowcroft, National Security Advisor during the Bush administration......
"Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in midstream, engaging in "mission creep," and would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible. We had been unable to find Noriega in Panama, which we knew intimately. We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs deserting it in anger and other allies pulling out as well. Under the circumstances, there was no viable "exit strategy" we could see, violating another of our principles. Furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-Cold War world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations' mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the United States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different — and perhaps barren — outcome.
posted on July 1, 2005 07:01:53 AM new
kiara - I will say it one last time....anyone who reads what their electrical output was when we went to war with Iraq in 2003 will see it was right around 4000-4400. And it was returned to those levels in 2004....last year.
The reason they are using the generators is because their needs have increased to approx. 8000-9000 today. Because they're using more than they did.
This minister might be mentioning their pre 1991 levels of electricity as at that time they were using approx the 9000 figure. But saddam never repaired their grids after the 1991 war. Two totally different issues.
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And then there's helen. Who for some false reason THINKS it was ONLY conservatives that decided to go to war and remove saddam. And most reasonable people know that's not the truth. All those quotes from all those democrats then who gave the President war powers and who stated exactly why THEY felt we needed to do so.
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"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
[we've been over and over that game playing] then now...supposedly she DOES support and listen to the commanders.....now it's all propoganda. 