posted on September 23, 2000 10:46:46 AM
First Post
Why should the fees associated with Paypal be treated any differently?
I get the feeling that the people are more upset with paypal for changing the rules multiple times.
It's not just the start of fees, true, I treat my merchant account as a business fee, it is that paypal was to be "always free", then, instead of being honest with us they tried to tell us we misunderstood and that "person-to-person" was always free.
It's more the way they are handling it, than the actual fee. That's what most are upset about.
posted on September 23, 2000 11:07:53 AM
Indeed, no one would be very upset if they had honestly and in advance notified their customers that they had changed their charges.
What happened was they offered their services for free explaining that their profits were made off the float, then after a while offered business accounts with extra services for a fee, and suddenly informed the sellers that if they were a full or part time business (not defining that term) that they were leeching off those that had sprung for the extra services and that if they didn't change their account into a business account, they would 'enforce' this policy change that no one knew about.
This on top of this verification scheme, that essentially required the seller to give them the financial equivalent of their house keys in order to not be branded 'not verified' and warned about how you might rip off the buyers.
No - it's not the charges - PayPal has the right to charge any fee they want to. They may not keep many customers that way, but it's their right. It's that it's obvious that they can't be trusted. If they pulled these, what do you think they may change in the future, and not tell you about. Especially if they have your house keys. They seem to have some 'reallll' creative interpretations of the english language.
posted on September 23, 2000 11:15:45 AM
Well my auctions do not look like a business, I am. Have all the bus. licenses etc, revenue taxes to deal with etc.
I still take PayPal and have thier business account with them. But I have an online store, and do not use PayPal there, I have a merchant account for that, as someone coming in, not knowing about PayPal, as most of the ebay community does, I wouldn't put them thru registering with them to pay. Its much easier just to click away and enter a CC # directly.
What I do not understand, and please don't flame me for this, is all the people that say they are not a business on ebay, they are 'hobbyists'? etc?
So, to me a hobby is something you like to do in your spare time, and can just quit, and come back to it at any time. And your not generating income (I think that =business) entrusting your bidder/buyer with thier money, so you can ship out the item they won from you (buying from you).
Sure you can quit and come back to it. But from what I've expierenced you have people sending checks 3 weeks later (if that is too long and you don't think that is acceptable) so you send back and have to email that bidder etc, your still dealing with ebay, even though you've tooken a break from the hobby. Also most of you have a TOS-Terms of Service, I've seen over and over here, even the 'non business' auctions. Well Terms of Service means what? You have a service, your selling. That still =a business. I understand some say, 'the IRS considers me a hobby' fine. I don't think your customers would like you to consider them your hobby.
A lemonade stand run by 10 yr olds is a business.
You do not have to accept PayPal, but I think ebay sellers are a business, whether you do it part time or full time, whether you bring in a profit of $20 or $5000 a month.
The people who say its a hobby, I think you should consider it a part time job then. You are a seller (which I consider a business, one who sells, has sales, etc)
posted on September 23, 2000 11:21:34 AMIt's only a quarter people.
Grrrrr........
It's only a quarter! It's only a dollar! Some people have such deep pockets they deserve to be separated from their quarters and dollars.
It's MORE than a quarter to us pions! It's a BLATENT SCAM and outright LIE! We were duped! We were conned!
Somebody turn on a lightbulb for these folks that can't grasp what egreed and paypal have done and are continueing to do to us. How many "only a quarters" does it take for the lightbulb to go on?
posted on September 23, 2000 11:57:25 AM
heygrape-
Just wait until PayPal pulls its next stupid move. Another wave will get it.
And another wave will get it with the stupid PayPal trick after that and so on.
It's taken two stupid PayPal tricks to push me out the door. That "verification" attempt to get into my checkbook almost did it. But I found a way around it.
This lastest PR disaster is too much.
I really don't want to give money to a company that has to ask its users how it should be run, time and again -- a company that makes moves without thinking them through, time and again.
PayPal needs to come up with a plan and a real TOS and stick to it. This silly rewriting the rules every 3rd day is no way to run a business.
This is not really brand new, unbroken ground, PayPal. CCNow has been providing the online selling community with credit card services for some time. ((Yes, CCNow charges a whopping 9% for its services (8% during the holiday selling season). BUT CCNow has very clear terms and conditions and the TOS doesn't change over and over.)) It's run PROFESSIONALLY, which PayPal is not.
No, I'm not advocating that anyone run to CCNow. I'm just pointing out the differences between similar services -- one that is well-run and one that is not.
What will be PayPal's next misstep? Will it involve your customers -- and will they blame you for leading them to PayPal?
That's what really matters, not the quarter plus 1.9%.
posted on September 23, 2000 03:39:15 PM
Hi Shelly - I'll answer your question from my own perspective, which may not be the same as others who consider themselves sellers but not businesses.
In my dealings with my customers, I strive for the highest level of integrity and honesty. I always ship same or next day upon payment; I communicate immediately and frequently. I give refunds if a situation warrants it. Etc etc.
But I do this very part time, and yes, I can walk away at any time. I have no business license (I made inquiries at the time I started selling and was told it was not applicable). I do make money, but I think many hobbyists make money from their hobby.
Maybe it's wrong of me to feel that since I don't use PayPal that much, I should get a "free ride", but I don't think of it that way. I am simply using their service as they originally offered it. I think they should offer enhanced services to those who can benefit from them, and charge for that, but leave the status quo for small-time users.
posted on September 23, 2000 06:46:08 PM
I am just a hobbyist who does E-bay on the side, and I like Paypal because it allows me to accept credit cards. I realize that Billpoint is out there now, but to us little guys Paypal is still the answer. I just wonder how many bidders I would lose on high dollar auctions because I do not take credit cards? Last time I checked this was still a free enterprise system, and we can all re-examine our options. We could also all stop using Paypal until they changed it back to the way it was. Anyone remember new Coke?
