posted on July 6, 2005 11:59:31 AM new
With his lambasting rants, Cosby has done nothing to improve the status of poor blacks or understanding between races.
In the final analysis, Cosby has used the media to spread stereotypical thinking and to reinforce racist ideas.
posted on July 6, 2005 12:26:30 PM new
You're so right, Helen. If he thinks he's doing such a great job, there should be numbers to back him up. How many blacks have been saved so far?
Sorry but I forgot to mention how good it is to see you again Dave!
posted on July 6, 2005 12:42:37 PM new
Oh come on Krafty - that's about as niave a statement as I have seen on these boards. Social change does not happen in three months (at least not without abou 250,000 armed men in big tanks ) and there are no stats without a study and exactly how does one structure a study on the social effect of a speeking engagement?
I am wondering why it is that you and Helen are so against people wqorking within their own community to try to better it even if sometimes that means kicking them in the ass?
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on July 6, 2005 01:09:09 PM new
Cosby is doing HIS race a GREAT favor. Speaking out to the truths of why so many are in the situations they find themselves in.
While he continues to tour different cities....he's NOT being met with resistance, but rather support and agreement from those in attendence and other black leaders who also see the issues he mentions as problems that need to be dealt with in order to end the cycle of poverty.
There was no chorus of criticism. Quite the contrary, Cosby's remarks were embraced by several of the leading black columnists in the country: DeWayne Wickham, Clarence Page, Colbert King, Leonard Pitts, Jr., and Thomas Sowell.
Kweisi Mfume, the NAACP president who was on stage with Cosby, said later that not only did he agree with Cosby, not only did he make similar points in his own speeches, but that he had just heard the same points made by the philosophers in his barbershop.
Cosby appeared Thursday with the Rev. Jesse Jackson, founder and president of the education fund, who defended the entertainer's statements.
"Bill is saying let's fight the right fight, let's level the playing field," Jackson said. "Drunk people can't do that. Illiterate people can't do that."
Cosby also said many young people were failing to honor the sacrifices made by those who struggled and died during the civil rights movement.
"Dogs, water hoses that tear the bark off trees, Emmett Till," he said, naming the black youth who was tortured and murdered in Mississippi in 1955, allegedly for whistling at a white woman. "And you're going to tell me you're going to drop out of school? You're going to tell me you're going to steal from a store?"
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Cosby said his detractors were trying in vain to hide the black communities "dirty laundry".
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/7/2/92000.shtml
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[ edited by Linda_K on Jul 6, 2005 01:33 PM ]
posted on July 6, 2005 04:59:32 PM new
Fenix, you're right - my post was stupid. But to answer your question, I'm against Cosby keeping alive all these "black issues" when the issues are really about all people who are poor or fall upon hard times. It reminds me of drug companies who come up with names of "illnesses" so they can market a pill they have to take care of it.
posted on July 6, 2005 05:20:24 PM new
Krafty - he's not "keeping them alive". He's addressing serious problems within the community and writing it all off and with this glib - Oh, they are poor, leave them alone, don't be mean to them sentiment is a much bigger insult than anything Cosby is saying. It's like you are saying that they don't make enough money to speak proper english and their parents were poor, they grew up in this atmosphere and there really is no point in them trying to better themselves so why bother suggesting it.
Personally I don't see you telling a child that they have no hope and no foundation to better themselves so don't bother trying. So why would you tell the person that is telling them they deserve and can have more, but these are the things they must change to get on that track, to be quiet?
I swear to god, one of the biggest problems with society today is political correctness. Don't tell people to get off their butt and fight to create something better for themselves because you might hurt their feelings?!?!? And what, underemployment and below standard living conditiona because of a lack of education is going to better for their psyche? I just don't get that mindset.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
[ edited by fenix03 on Jul 6, 2005 05:21 PM ]
posted on July 6, 2005 05:43:02 PM new
I remember a guy who hosted a radio show. I know I listened to him in the 80's or so. Bruce Williams? Not sure if he is still around or not
When I first started listening to him, people would call in, sad stories, hard times, can't pay this or that. He was to the point and pretty harsh. But people kept calling him
I remember his main 'motto' to folks who were thinking of bankruptcy or were pretty bad off financially. He would say
"Decrease spending, and/or (more the AND) increase income. Young men would say, 'I have a day job, but its not enough for my family, my small children. He would tell that guy, 'get a second job' if that doesn't help, GET A THIRD' yeah he was to the point, harsh and all, but now looking back, he was right.
I know I know, someone is going to say there are no jobs. And they would tell him that too. He would say something like, You can work at McDonalds, you can be a janitor, if you really care about your family, yourself and finances, NO job is beneath anyone to do.
posted on July 6, 2005 05:57:12 PM new
All I'm saying Fenix, is at what point do these issues stop being black issues and become people issues? He's keeping alive the notion that there are black issues - as compared to what? White issues? Beige issues?
It's easy to say things like stay in school or don't get involved with drugs, but who pays for the clothes on these kids backs or proper food to get them through the day? What about a poor child who sees their mom and/or dad struggling, perhaps because of bad health, and is asked to deliver a brown paper bag for $50.00? Who would say no? ANY opportunity when you're poor is worth grabbing when you have nothing to lose, and that's what Cosby doesn't seem to address.
posted on July 6, 2005 06:48:42 PM new "Oh, they are poor, leave them alone, don't be mean to them sentiment is a much bigger insult than anything Cosby is saying."
Who said to leave them alone? I said don't blame the victim! Do something constructive such as change the racist climate in which they live rather than reinforce the racist ideas that lead to discrimination. Work to improve knowledge and understanding between races. Work to improve underfunded schools and housing of the poor blacks instead of predicting that by age 12 they will be having sex with their grandmothers! Such negative stereotypical statements are detrimental to any effort to improve the condition of the poor of any race.
And, as KD suggested, the U.S. poor include several races... white, black, Latino and Mexican. We should leave none of them alone.
posted on July 6, 2005 07:33:23 PM new
::All I'm saying Fenix, is at what point do these issues stop being black issues and become people issues? He's keeping alive the notion that there are black issues - as compared to what? White issues? Beige issues?::
I guess I have not quite gotten my point across regarding Cosby. His concern is his community. He is talking to his people. Latinos are not going to listen to a black man telling them get off their ass, just like blacks are not going to listen to a Latino. He is making a targeted effort toward a community that he exists within and which holds him in great esteem based on his history of work within it. I don't understand why that is such a problem.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on July 6, 2005 07:38:38 PM new
:: Do something constructive such as change the racist climate in which they live::
He's telling them to stop talking like hood rats (and you can say whatever you would like Helen but I know more than a couple black business owners that don't want their employees using street talk.) and stop having more kids than they can afford. Sorry but I don't see these as racist or economic issues. They are simply common sense issues.
Saying that he should shut up and that he is perpetrating stereotypes by telling them to break out of the sterotypes is almost as logical as the idiot protestors in Scotland destroy the property of local residents to protest the actions of visting world leaders. It's bitching for the sake of bitching.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
- Ann Coulter
[ edited by fenix03 on Jul 6, 2005 07:38 PM ]
posted on July 6, 2005 08:04:32 PM new
"Bitching for the sake of bitching" is exactly what Cosby is doing. "Kicking them in the ass" with insulting racist remarks is not an effective motivational technique. Cosby has identified a problem without giving any consideration to the cause of the problem or the best way to solve the problem.
You might want to check out Abraham Maslow's theory.
posted on July 6, 2005 08:19:51 PM new
NTS I use to listen to him all the time and yes I think he is still somewhere on the radio. If I can remember he made and lost a couple of fortunes so he could speak from experience.
He always said if there was a video store on 3 corners and a store for rent on the other he would open another video store.
I thoroughly enjoyed him and what he would tell his radio audience. Another statement he would make "go deliver pizzas"
Do you remember when he did his broadcast from his living room because he had a broken leg and was in traction? We need more of those kind of broadcasters. Ones with some sense, or maybe cents. He helped a lot of people.
posted on July 6, 2005 08:57:05 PM new
Oh wow thank you Libra! He still is around!
Yes! I remember him saying 'go deliver pizzas' yeah!
He got real with people that were poor, broke etc
Him and Cosby should get together on this 'issue' and more
He always made sense to me.
He also did a challenge, he said he could be dropped ANYWHERE in the U.S. and have a job with a day, or something like that. No one took him up on his challenge either I believe it can be done, and I believe he would do it.
posted on July 7, 2005 06:24:22 AM new
I used to listen to Bruce Williams at night, but can't get him anymore...I liked his advice and opinions.
____________________________________________
Fue por lana y saliσ trasquilado...
posted on July 7, 2005 07:31:31 AM new
fenix, to suggest that he "exists" in that community is laughable! By far and away, he does not exist in that community! And just because he is a man with black skin, does not make it so. He may know what its like to be poor, but his perspective is coming from a "back-then" recollection and not now.
posted on July 7, 2005 08:17:48 AM new
I would love to ask Bruce Williams, how he would start to help in this 'issue'
Sure you need a car of your own now to deliver pizza. You don't need a car to work at McDonalds, or some other fast food place. And though McD's is minimum wage, you get a second job, that you can take public transportation to, also.
I like that show too, we can't get it either profe. But from the webpage Libra gave, you can listen to it via internet.
posted on July 7, 2005 08:23:50 AM new
Usually the people that need second jobs have automobiles. The people he tells that to are the ones so far in debt they need extra help.
Of course we are not so stupid as to think you can deliver pizza's without a car. He wouldn't have suggested it if he knew they didn't have one.
_________________
posted on July 7, 2005 08:52:00 AM newIt's easy to say things like stay in school or don't get involved with drugs, but who pays for the clothes on these kids backs or proper food to get them through the day?
In these cases, usually the taxpayer.
What about a poor child who sees their mom and/or dad struggling, perhaps because of bad health, and is asked to deliver a brown paper bag for $50.00? Who would say no?
Someone who was taught it's not the way to do things. Someone with morals that knows right from wrong. Someone smart enough to know IF they do and get caught they're going to jail.
ANY opportunity when you're poor is worth grabbing when you have nothing to lose, and that's what Cosby doesn't seem to address.
I disagree - ANY opportunity is NOT worth grabbing when it's going to make things worse for your life. Thinking ahead about being caught and going to jail and not wasting your life that way IS what Cosby's trying to get across to this race.
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then we read helen's advice. Yea, like that hasn't worked for the past two to three generations....so let's stick with doing what doesn't work. typical
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on July 8, 2005 08:13:39 AM new
More black leaders identify the problems in black communities.
Milwaukee's black leaders say the enemy is within
Jul 7, 5:06 PM (ET)
By John Rondy
MILWAUKEE (Reuters) -
Two days before the oldest and best-known U.S. civil rights group holds its yearly convention in Milwaukee, black leaders in the city say their community is being torn apart from the inside.
Civil rights leaders like 57-year-old Prentice McKinney, who fought to free Milwaukee's blacks from the ghetto, say gangs, drugs and violence have left those who still live in the nation's urban cores in fear of the next generation.
"Back then, the enemy was clear, it was white racists, and racist police officers," said McKinney, who was a black teen-age "commando" in the 1960s and now runs a tavern once frequented by fellow activists.
"It was a legalized system of segregation. And so, the challenge was between the white establishment and the African-American population. Today, the African-American population is being destroyed by its own youth ... an enemy from within."
He and others interviewed before the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People's six-day meeting beginning on Saturday see a changed city where a generation of blacks freed from the shackles of yesterday's legalized discrimination are held hostage by today's crime and poverty.
"You have a population of older African-Americans ... who are now afraid of the children in their neighborhoods," McKinney said.
posted on July 8, 2005 09:13:19 AM new
I am wondering if welfare cash benifits are much bigger than a minimum wage job?
Also, I do not know if Bill Cosby were speaking to the ones that are getting welfare, or not.
But, not sure, if you got 2 jobs, and had a 2 parent family, and say mom has one job, and dad has 2, I would only guess that it would be more.
I know that Social Services in this state will provide daycare to working parents. They also offer training. I knew, quite a while ago, a gal that had 2 kids, went through the training and school for free through the state (who also provided daycare) and landed a pretty good job. She is now in accounting in Reno for Harrahs Hotel and Casino
That is just one person, I wonder if she is the only one, or will be the only one.
posted on July 8, 2005 09:17:29 AM new
Mingotree you have been here four days and you can make an asumption like this.
"Rusty Libra63 does not understand the concept of an idea , having never had one"
If you mingotree were honest in what you said about lurking here, although I doubt it, you would have read that the Republicans on this board said although they didn't think Bush was the best candidate he was better than the traitor Kerry.
I wonder if bigpeepa is counting the number of mingotree's posts. I will bet they out number everyone's. He/she is on a run. she went from 13 to 64 in 4 days but who is keeping track right bigpeepa.
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[ edited by Libra63 on Jul 8, 2005 09:52 AM ]
posted on July 8, 2005 09:39:43 AM newI am wondering if welfare cash benifits are much bigger than a minimum wage job?
They are in Wisconsin NTS. That is one reason we had so many wefare receipents. They found out they could make more money in Wisconsin than Illinois and we had a welfare boom
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posted on July 8, 2005 09:59:23 AM new
No NTS there have been many failures in the W2 program where welfare workers went to work, had free day care and free health insurance for a year or two but many decided they didn't like work so they quite. Now this program was for all ethnic groups not just blacks.
I only also know of one that completed her schooling and is now making good money. A asset to the community and the state.
It can be done if the person is willing. Willing is the definitive word.
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This topic is 6 pages long: 1new2new3new4new5new6new
) and there are no stats without a study and exactly how does one structure a study on the social effect of a speeking engagement?
typical