posted on September 24, 2000 11:34:34 AM new
macanjan - Interesting thought ... if you are deaf or mute, email is a necessity.
Have you considered one of those TTD contraptions? They require the use of an intermediary who reads what you type and types what the other person says, but it's not too hard.
posted on September 24, 2000 12:51:12 PM new
Call from a business with a large "trunk" line--multi-line system. Those can't really be traced and come up as "unavailable". Any large business would be like this. Go in and ask to use a phone.
posted on September 24, 2000 03:44:43 PM new
After reading this thread last night, I did a search @ Ebay, just out of curiosity. I used the "company name", and had over 108,000 hits! Today, it's a little over 110,000.
Just think about that, for a moment. If only 10% of those auctions close each night with successful bids, that's 10,800 buyers each night that will be giving full, detailed info about themselves, from phone #, to buying tendencies, and how much they're willing to spend. Talk about "Platinum Grade" telemarketing list! Anyone using the service to generate the auction, is doing all the work for them, and they charge fees 'tboot! The real money's not in the auction, but the auction tools, I guess. Wonder how long before the average eBayer catches on?
edited to redo my math! jeeeesh, I'm lost without a calculator!
[ edited by jbl7283 on Sep 24, 2000 03:49 PM ]
posted on September 24, 2000 03:54:09 PM new
About a year ago I bid on a doll on yahoo.Instead of her emailing me her address of where to send payment.She gave me her phone number.Asking me to call within 72 hrs.Seemed kind of strange to me.I called her anyways.Then she gave me address where to send payment.I think she just wanted to know if I was serious enough about it.Go figure.
posted on September 24, 2000 11:24:31 PM new
I enjoyed reading this thread this weekend. I learned a few things.
I agree the TTD is not very handy. I have been on the receiving side of the equipment. If a person has email and a fax machine why the hassle of TTD?
How about calling from a police station?
Personally, not only would I tell the seller go fly a kite, but first email the person "due to the fact your TOS doesn't mention calling a 'toll free' number, if you don't give me the information of total amount due and mailing address by email within 48 hours <or maybe 24 hours but I prefer 48 hours> I will consider this transaction canceled on your part."
That way it is the fault of the seller not the buyer.
I have had to use similar language with a couple of sellers.....particularly when I had low feedbacks. They thought they could walk over me. I don't know your feedback but sometimes people think just because a person has a low feedback they were born yesterday.
Don't forget to keep us updated!
BTW one wonders if the free shipping was too good to be true??? In a sense it isn't free *if* our hunches are correct. Sometimes there are strings attached to free things. I think if I come across a similar auction I will email questions particularly if they expect me to call instead of email. Then again they probably would email me a message to call them......I would be on my way to the police station!
posted on September 25, 2000 04:27:16 AM new
Harvesting phone numbers, this would be a stupid, slow way - I don't think that is the reason - realize they can get your phone number from eBay, they wouldn't have to have you call.
posted on September 25, 2000 05:25:13 AM new
helnjoe -
A good list, with a couple thousand names, addresses and email addersses on it, if backed up by supposed buying habits, can be RENTED for a couple dollars a name! Especially since this list is of people who are known to have computetrs and buy of the net.
This could be quite profitable.
jwpc -
But each time they run the USER INFO request, it alerts the user, AND sends an email to the requestor. If you request a couple thousand of these, eBay would notice.
posted on September 25, 2000 08:06:08 AM new
The fact that the seller is willing -- or should I say eager -- for those who will not call to just drop the auction to avoid the negative is the clincher in my mind. The fact they would rather say no to the buyer's money in hand if they can't get the call (and thus the buyer's phone number, given what has been revealed about 800 numbers) makes it clear to me that the item in question is of secondary value at best to the seller, compared to the buyer's phone number.
In cases where buyers refuse to call, the seller is eager to get the buyer to drop the whole auction, to avoid a negative -- to avoid accumulating too much visible evidence of their practices.
I might be wrong on the above, but personally, I wouldn't just run to get away from this; jump on a jet, preferably a fast one. Either that or give a negative such as:
"Nasty surprise, not in TOS: refuse to sell item unless I called (this would reveal my #, which is private)."
(Though you'd probably end up with a retaliatory negative; however if you don't mind doing some of the rest of the world a service... -- either that or refer the bundle of email to eBay/Safeharbor. )
I cannot believe refusing to take money for an otherwise done deal is about their sales process. Addresses and Paypal IDs can be sent more cheaply, faster, and more accurately over email. I cannot think of any other reason to so badly want a phone number except for telemarketing.
Think of it: person's name, address, phone number, email address, knowledge they own a computer, have enough money to spend on auctions, have a history on eBay, part of which could be looked up right on eBay, etc. -- all to be had without eBay noticing or taking action. Most users wouldn't even realize what's really happening, if this is the case. This is a far more lucrative list of warm or hot leads, stacked with more information, which is more valuable to direct marketers than cold calling.
Direct marketers take tons of paths to get your information. Collectively, they will buy up whatever chunks of information about you that they can from pharmacies, schools, colleges, grocery stores, department stores, credit bureaus, job search sites, home and mortgage sites, and banks, to name some of the more surprising groups willing to sell you out. Until recently, they'd even buy chunks of information from some state DMVs. Yes, it's "easier" for a direct marketer to just find out what blocks of telephone numbers exist, but the more they can profile and sort out their targets, the better they feel. This just looks like one more profiling method to me.
Again, I might be wrong, but this is what it really sounds like to me.
----
What's being done in the name of direct marketing nowadays is crazy.
The above are all just my opinions, except where I cite facts as such.
Oh, I am not dc9a320 anywhere except AW. Any others are not me.
Is eBay is changing from a world bazaar into a bizarre world?
posted on September 25, 2000 02:50:30 PM new
chococake
Received the following this morning:
>>I NEED YOUR FULL NAME AND SHIPPING ADDRESS WITH PHONE# . PLEASE EMAIL ALL
NECCESSARY INFORMATION BACK TO ME , AND PUT NEED AN ORDER NUMBER IN THE
SUBJECT LINE OF YOU EMAIL<<
I sent back my name and address, no phone number. We'll see what happens. Kinda irritating that they won't just send me their address, I have to give them my info first.
posted on September 25, 2000 03:18:50 PM new
I was going to say:
It sounds like this is actually a fairly large business running auctions on eBay and have to deal with a ridiculous (to users) fulfillment process so they can leverage the infrastructure they already have set up. For instance, maybe the 800 number goes to a call center with people equipped to deal with orders and such and they just aren't set up to deal with 10,000 orders by email. Letting the order go is more cost-efficient than dealing with it as a one-off.
Not that that's the best way to run a business, but I've often been surprised by the degree to which some businesses haven't entered the 90's yet.
But then I saw the last post, with the all caps and unprofessional approach. Now I have to think there's definitely something fishy.
posted on September 25, 2000 04:26:42 PM new
The first thing that comes to mind after considering the harvest-for-telemarketing angle is that there is no written record of anything that may transpire in that telephone conversation. It's your word against theirs as to what may have been agreed upon over the telephone. And, by using the 800 number, they will have proof that it was you who called them. I would send them one final email and tell them to take their merchandise and their telephone requirements and put them where the sun doesn't shine.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
posted on September 25, 2000 04:50:36 PM new
As a seller I request the buyers mailing address or zipcode if they don't want to give me the mailing addy. But a phone number. In my opinion that is unreasonable.
If a buyer puts their foot down with my EOA then I kindly explain why I request their info before I email them my info. If they don't understand at this point then I will bend and give my mailing address with the stipulation that if they send me money before I tally up their total and they shortchange me I not send the item(s) until I receive the total amount due.
(In the beginning of my selling I had a bidder send me money before I tallied it and they were short. So to avoid this I have my above mentioned EOA (and also if they are required to pay sales tax since I am a registered business).
Again all I am looking for is their actual location I personally don't need one's phone number at this point. It sure sounds fishy to me.
Has anyone mention the possibility that the seller may not want to get the bidders' info so that they don't get caught red handed?
Heck anyone that is registered can go in and randomly get various users info and go to town with it. If they do it fast and get a good number of info. Any thoughts?
posted on September 25, 2000 04:52:07 PM new
mustpar65:
What is to stop the seller from pulling your user info if s/he wants your phone number so desperately?
You may want to change your eBay contact info...you can get a free voicemail extension at www.onebox.com (good for faxes, too---and you can have all messages forwarded to your regular eamil addy). I switched my contact info to voicemail when eBay was pondering sending everyone's phone # out in the EOAs.
posted on September 25, 2000 04:56:19 PM new
There is a good point.
In my opinion we in a sense of the word do enter into contracts at least that's the way I view my buying and selling. Therefore a written agreement is better than a verbal one over the phone. There needs to have a written meeting of the minds.
posted on September 25, 2000 05:21:19 PM newDebbie: Nothing, except the buyer would be informed of the action, and eBay would eventually take notice if one seller was pulling a lot of contacts, especially if a buyer complains (I would).
Regarding toyamy's thoughts about having to "leverage" (one of the most overused "power words" ) and old and cumbersome business architecture (if it weren't, as Amy said, so fishy otherwise)... I can see that as a possibility, but if that is true of some company, they should join this decade. Fine, ask for the phone numbers if it still helps them (assuming they aren't harvesting), accept those that call, but accept those that don't call, reroute the email to the customer service pool, and enter the information without the phone number. Takes some effort, I realize, but not that much, and they can start entering the wild world of the Web.
I still think it's harvesting for telemarketing, though.
[ Edited to correct spelling. ]
[ edited by dc9a320 on Sep 25, 2000 05:24 PM ]
posted on September 25, 2000 06:24:33 PM new
If the seller is harvesting phone numbers, once he pulls the bidder's contact info it is too late! Complaining to eBay after the fact won't keep you off the telemarketing list.
In any event, this is certainly an odd situation. I know I would not be calling this seller if I were in this predicament...
posted on September 25, 2000 06:24:52 PM new
debbielennon
Sure they can pull my contact info but I have a thinklink voicemail number. I think to get the very best and most valuable leads he needs to have a verified working phone number that the customer answers. Many people have outdated or even bogus contact info on eBay, mining that would be only slightly better than going thru the phone book. Plus they'd soon be caught.
posted on September 25, 2000 06:49:34 PM new
I have had the same thing happen. I'll bet that we are even talking about the same seller! After the second email and no responce from the seller I decided that it was his/her loss. I would like the item, but don't know why I should have to jump through all of their hoops to get it. Just give me the address and I would send payment. At least state it in the auction so that I would know in advance that the process was going to be a pain in the a**.
posted on September 25, 2000 07:06:15 PM newDebbie: True, those bidders would already end up on the calling list, but if such people complained about contact pulling (after the fact), the seller would rack up many more negatives, eBay might investigate.
A smart harvester would surely know that early or ahead of time, and not try pushing their luck. So for the bidders that won't be convinced to call, they try sweeping it under the rug by insisting the auction can be dropped without repercussion.
Apparently, the seller has done well either getting callers, or getting non-calling bidders to skip the auction with minimal negatives (if I remember one of the page one posts correctly), that they've gone on.
Again, it's just a theory at best, but it seems the best fit IMO.
posted on September 25, 2000 07:52:13 PM new
chococake
Well I could do that but I doubt I would find out anything different. They have a website so I used whois to get their address. If they don't respond in the next couple of days I'll mail them a payment and send it certified.
BTW the email they use to send EOAs is not a PayPal member and neither is their whois email. That is probably by design they don't want to receive payments without first harvesting those phone numbers.
posted on September 25, 2000 08:18:20 PM new
Very curious situation. I've been immediatly using Pay Pal to pay for an auction within minutes of it's ending when the shipping is stated in the tos, using the e-mail address of the lister's ID. I've had no problems doing this so far. However in this case I would feel my obligation was met when I sent payment via Pay Pal regardless of whether the payment was claimed or not.
As a seller I sometimes request the buyer call my 800 number on big ticket items to facilitate the transaction, but don't insist they do so.
Please continue posting to this thread as I'm interested in the outcome.
posted on September 25, 2000 08:36:00 PM new
mustpar65
Does the seller have paypal logo on his/her eBay site? A little trick that I do is to click on the logo using my webtv keyboard I press "go to" then click on "show current" to get the >a href addy<. (Of course you may have a computer and do it differently.) This will have their primary paypal email addy.
This may help you or may help others.
Edited to add: Of course this trick only helps if the seller is using the referral logo. I don't.....
not bobbysoxer on eBay
[ edited by bobbysoxer on Sep 25, 2000 08:37 PM ]
[ edited by jbl7283 on Sep 24, 2000 03:49 PM ]