posted on August 20, 2000 01:19:58 AM
Sarge-you said
The FTC (Federal Trade Commission) now focuses on online auctions to the point they have instructive materials and laws directly applicable. They (FTC) generally hold sales on online auction sites to the same mandate as they do your local K-Mart.
Ok go to K-Mart, pick out a one of thier cheapest, um I mean most inexpensive televisions (Korean made maybe), ask the salesperson, "What are the bad things about this set?" (he may know, but will he tell you? I don't think so)
In the late 80's, if you went to a Yugo dealer, and asked him if there were any
serious defects with this car... would he tell you? But I am not going to hold it against this salesman.
Everything, look all around you, people will withhold information from you, of course they do, and this is what 'cavet emptor' is about, and you need to do your homework before you buy.
And I doubt the Federal Trade Commission is going to get involved in this.
Am I being 5 x 5 (LOUD & CLEAR) now.....
(though I KNOW I'll get nothing in reply or BS flames, or a locked thread... whichever)
I am talking about apples, you are talking about pears. Rather than issue an argument based on a personal preference, read the
Act(s).
Take my word, although the FTC does not act as a representative for the individual they can/do get involved in matters generated by an individual complaint. Technically, the individual (is) represented in a "class action" manner. If the complainant knows the lingo, knows how to present a case, knows the right people, and knows how to cut the red tape, possible involvement by such type agencies is enhanced.
Also, they do not (only) look at a single incident, they also look for patterns, singular and multiple. In other words, if activities of their interest and enforcement responsibility are consistently occurring and a pattern of expansion is evident, they often will step in, regardless the offenders are not hardcore scammers.
In many cases they do not go after the individual(s). They lay the reponsibility in the lap of the organization providing the venue that allows the offense(s) to occur.
As I previously said, the FTC and state level agencies do not consider a failure to ask questions and a TOS as a blanket defense.
posted on August 20, 2000 05:11:37 AM
That's hogwash, Mike, and you know it. By making a winning bid a buyer is entering into a contract and the bid effectively signs his or her name on the bottom line indicating acceptance of all conditions stated or implied in the arrangement. The failure of the buyer to exercise due caution and read the fine print does not, except in certain defined conditions, relieve the buyer from the responsibility to complete the contract.
In your mix of FTC and state regulation citations you are mixing your horse manure into an odiferous souffle' unlikely to whet many appetites nor hold sway in any argument. It might chase others from the room, which, in your history here is your favored tactic in a losing engagement.
I note that you have not made denial of being the actuary in this play, and it's too late for that now. You made this purchase, didn't you, Mike?, and the resulting uproar in your household is the reason you are here now. We are both familiar with the kicked dog chain, and you are the dog, evidently, there, seeking something, here, to relieve your angst.
posted on August 20, 2000 10:55:26 AM
maui! Just starting it, and plan on reading it this week, leaving this afternoon for THE vacation! YES! Going to the beach... and according to the weather here, will probably be inside the condo there a lot of the time, so plan on doing some heavy duty reading
Wow that book is huge! And Thank you again! And I will let you know how I like it, but I'm sure I will!
posted on August 20, 2000 11:48:32 AMSome people have a very serious problem with exaggeration, lies, self-esteem, reckless assumption, and a serious inability to debate without getting personal.
The shoe fits and you wear it SO well, Sarge! Go back and read your own threads since you first posted and the many many many many many many many many many incorrect assumptions and personal attacks YOU have made.
posted on August 20, 2000 12:06:32 PM
kiheicat- thank you I was just printing out the directions for my daughter to get there today.. the place where we are going..
She is 19 and insists on taking her own vehicle...... she doesn't like my Jeep Cherokee (brat! ) I think it was made in the U.S of A. but not positive!
She is taking her truck-FORD F150, do I need to check and see if its made in Canada? LOL!
Found on the site, where we are going, that they just opened an internet cafe, geeeez opened only till 5 pm, maybe I'll check it out, in between reading the Swan Song and the casinos
Yes I do believe there was a lot of personal attacks here, though I am not taking them
personal (anymore), or will I respond in kind to him, not into the attack thing. After reading what the
Sarge posts, I do get a better understanding of what he's about.
posted on August 20, 2000 07:13:15 PM
Just a fast point--auctions are terribly exciting especially to newbies. So---a newbie wins an auction-her wise hubby says you've been taken. Let me handle it little woman. Yikes!!!
posted on August 20, 2000 08:57:16 PM
jeanyu Let me handle it little woman.
LOL Exactly! Let her get her own userid, ask her own questions, bid on her own items, make her own dam mistakes, and learn her own lessons from them. I would hate to have someone hovering over me!
posted on August 20, 2000 09:38:26 PMplaces like the Philipines, Tawain, Mexico, China, Canada.
I'll have you know the Canadian Mennonites make some damn fine quilts!
No doubt Sarge would be appalled to discover the thread in these quilts is imported from China.
I have always considered you to be quite adept at discerning the intent (subject) of what you are reading.
Although the subject of this thread may have set a tone (buyer vs. seller), the sidebar issue that evolved is not about an agreement or contract between parties, The evolving issue is that there appears to be a preliminary emergence of a pattern that (possibly) some sellers are selling and advertising products in a manner and in a condition that might fall within the purview of "Consumer Protection."
Using quilts as an example; there appears to be an abundance of sellers who seem to have access to a continuous (or large) inventory of new quilts, still in the bag. In many of the ads where this is occurring, it seems the sellers are excluding from their ads information relevant to manufacturer and origin of manufacture. In the case at hand, I became further suspicious, although not based on facts at this time, why the seller stated the manufacture is known to the seller but the seller would not say.
If you know anything about factory rejects (irregulars), then you also know the laws regarding such if a seller, online or offline is selling such items, especially if advertised as "new." Many manufactures will allow their rejected product to be purchased and resold, but many also require that their company name/logo be obliterated or removed from the item and that the product be identified as an "irregular."
Eventually the seller I am dealing with caused me to subordinate the original issue and rise to the issue of, "Is there more to this then first questioned."
I am not talking about Jane or John Doe who may occasionally sell a new or used foreign product and state it in their ad, I am referring to those who appear to be doing volume.
All of us who have been around the online auction scene for several years are aware that there has been an influx of sellers doing volume selling of cheap goods, to the point the original auction atmosphere has almost gone by the wayside.
Many of these volume sellers are businesses (home based or store) that use the online auction system to get around particular regs that otherwise would inhibit their business, or are intentionally scamming.
The shady sellers know that, (unless a buyer engages in massive email exchange…that many of the sellers ignore) inspection of the goods is limited to what is in the ad and
pic(s). The advantage they have is; if the buyer is dissatisfied with the item once it arrives, many buyers will just take the loss rather then engage in long-distance email complaints and risk negative FB.
I see where you listed "Poking fun at my ex" as one of your "Interests."
That stated interest, which I consider an indicator, seems to have carried over to this thread.
It is a horse of a different color that direct exchange of different opinions often rises to facetious remarks, but you, as here, announced your belated arrival in said manner.
If you have nothing of value to contribute to the primary subject(s), why don't you call your ex and expend your verbal antics by poking fun at him.
Red-ear
Irony, my wife just purchased a handmade quilt from lady in Canada.
posted on August 20, 2000 10:51:58 PM
Still no denial that it was you who actually bought the quilt, Mike, and not your wife.
I would think that you would be quick in taking hold of that laurel wreath in order to make lie of twinsoft's divorcee counseling, to circumvent all of this chatter deriding you for demeaning her, and to reaffirm the good sense that your wife has, previously demonstrated by her having married you.
I had your point at the outset Mike, and though I consider it to be some of the oldest news in auctioning, I would have let it ride had you not made the unforgivable error of attacking ShellyHerr, who is my favorite.
posted on August 21, 2000 10:46:51 AM
SgtMike, in your first post you characterized your wife as "fearful" and "apprehensive." In contrast, your own actions are somewhat bullying. You are making a federal case out of "nitpicking semantics." You base your judgement on the fact that the seller did not describe the quilt in the worst possible light. Perhaps you expect a seller to state, "poor quality, made in a Phillipine sweatshop?"
You wrote,
"Some people have ... a serious inability to debate without getting personal. Then when they do, it is always someone else who created the problem."
On that point we are in agreement.
You asked for opinions and you have received several. I wonder if you will seriously consider what others have posted, or whether this thread is only intended to demonstrate your detective skill at uncovering an unethical seller.
I apologize for making personal remarks above. But since you did ask, I will state once again, you should let your wife handle the transaction and stay out of it. Everyone makes mistakes and I'm sure you have also made purchases that she doesn't approve of. If you have a problem with her using your ID, tell her to get her own ID.
As a seller, if I got a note from my buyer saying "I'm backing out, my husband doesn't like it" I would not consider it a valid reason to cancel the deal.
posted on August 21, 2000 12:02:00 PM
Sarge, Mala-wahine???
Oh, I'm am surprised that you would not take the time to research what you write so to avoid this blunder!
First, there is no usage of hyphens in the Hawaiian language. Second, there is no such word as 'malawahine'. There is a 'wahine', meaning 'woman', but no 'mala'.
However, there are some variables that perhaps is what you meant when you made up that word:
'malama' = beware, take care, heed.
So 'malama wahine' would be a woman that is wary and cautious.
'Malaki' = the month of March.
So 'Malaki wahine' would be a woman born in March.
'malakeke' = molasses.
So 'malakeke wahine' would be a woman covered in molasses? (lol)
'malamalama o ka mahina' = moonlight.
So 'malamalama o ka mahina wahine' would be a woman in the moonlight (oooooh, I LIKE that one!)
And 'mele' = happy.
So 'mele wahine' would be a happy woman. Which I am.
Thanks for the compliment Sarge!
You ol' sweety you. Your wife must be truly truly lucky to be married to such an old softy who lets her live her life as the intelligent individual she is without spousal badgering and/or interference and/or control and/or second guessing. NOT!
LOLOLOL
posted on August 21, 2000 01:14:37 PMHi Sarge I know it's ironic, but I have a situation similar to yours and I'm hoping to learn from your experience.
My husband ordered a gaaadget using my i.d. and I've since uncovered a vast conspiracy on the part of the seller to offer infeeerior gaaadgets. So, I've decided he can't have his gaaaadget even though it is awful pretty and shiny and all that.
The poor man is just way too simple minded for me to let him handle the situation. He just doesn't have the thought process to think this huuuuuuge dilema through, so I'm gonna have to take over for him. I don't really mind cause I'm sooooooo into control, ya know.
The things we have to do to keep our other halves in line.
P.S. I don't believe your story any more than you believe mine. We both know that you wouldn't have the tolerance to put up with someone who couldn't handle her own crap. I think Krs pegged it this time.
SgtMike, in your first post you characterized your wife as "fearful" and "apprehensive." In contrast, your own actions are somewhat bullying.
and goes on to counsel a continuance of the supposed bullying with:
"If you have a problem with her using your ID, tell her to get her own ID".
continuing along in his supposedly helpful manner, Twinsoft says:
"I will state once again, you should let your wife handle the transaction and stay out of it".
but if Mike does just that, and his wife decides that her husband's judgement should guide her decision in the matter, THEN Twinsoft would not accept
her handling of the transaction and says so with:
"As a seller, if I got a note from my buyer saying "I'm backing out, my husband doesn't like it" I would not consider it a valid reason to cancel the deal.
posted on August 21, 2000 01:27:08 PM
nobs, I believe you are right.
Sarge, a multi-cultural aficionado (there's some more Espanol for ya, lol)... who'd'a thunk it?
Go back and read your own threads since you first posted and the many many many many many many many many many incorrect assumptions and personal attacks YOU have made.
