sg52
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posted on September 25, 2000 10:55:33 PM new
I wouldn't rule out the telemarketing harvest, but there's another scam worth considering in this context.
The photo gear mail order industry is plagued by a scam which involves advertising things at prices which the merchant is unwilling to sell..just to get the call. Once they have the mark on the line, they try to figure out how to make it profitable, and there are various ways. But the bottom line is that they will not sell the stuff at the advertised price (or they'll add a ridiculous shipping fee).
This scam is potentially far more profitable than the lead harvest. The basic technique is to talk the customer off of ground the customer understands and onto ground that the scammer can make money. The hard nosed customer who won't budge is offered the absurd shipping charge, or some "mistake" is made and what is shipped is not what the customer ordered (and it's impossible to get that fixed).
Note that all of these scams require a person on the phone to agree to a change of the description of the item being sold.
Wouldn't work with email.
sg52
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Geocam
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posted on September 26, 2000 05:20:48 AM new
I am the one who started the thread a few weeks ago about this same seller. Unfortunately, some posters turned my thread into a bash of Andale and my issue was abandoned. I have still not completed the transaction with this seller. Yesterday, I sent yet another e-mail demanding a paypal address so that I could make payment and I informed him that I would be involving Safe Harbor if he did not comply. Here is the response:
IT IS BECAUSE OF EMAILS LIKE THIS THAT WE REQUIRE EVERYONE TO CALL IN THERE
ORDERS , INSTEAD OF PLAYING EMAIL TAG ASKING QUESTIONS BACK AND FORTH TO
PROCESS YOUR AUCTION ONE SIMPLE TWO MINUTE 800# CALL WOULD ALLOW YOU TO
RECEIVE YOUR ORDER IN NO TIME AS MY FEEDBACK SUGGESTS . THERE IS NOT ENOUGH
INFORMATION HERE TO GIVE YOU AN ORDER, THERE IS NO FULL NAME AND ADDRESS
WITH PHONE# ( IN CASE THERE ARE ANY PROBLEMS WITH THE SHIPMENT).
So, does anyone think Safe Harbor even cares about this seller's tactics? I am still just floored that not ONE previous buyer has negged about this situation or even bothered to mention it in the feedback.
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labbie1
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posted on September 26, 2000 05:47:21 AM new
I would keep sending e-mails to SafeHarbor or Timesensitive about this person--or both. put in the subject--SELLING OFFENSE!
Then make it short (They seem to have a very SHORT attention span at SH) and say Seller changed TOS and DEMANDS phone call to get payment address! E-mail attached...
You have to send e-mails at least 3-4 times before you actually get a real person to read the thing and give you a personal answer.
It is obvious to me from the ALL CAPS and the spelling errors that this is not a large e-tailer (a la Wal-Mart, etc.) that you are dealing with, but someone much smaller. I would NOT go through with this by giving my personal information. I do believe that they deserve a neg if the 800# was not a part of their auction page.
I saw an auction which stated that at the end, they would require you to call an 800# for an order number, etc. I did not bid on that auction because I felt this was not something with which I was comfortable.
I suspect that SafeHarbor has had numerous complaints, but the people have given up trying to make them understand the gravity of this seller.
A neg would certainly be appropriate I would think. Please keep us posted.
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Libra63
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posted on September 26, 2000 08:43:10 AM new
Mustpar65-Why not sit down and email some previous buyers. Do a bulk email with all their names and ask them what they did. I have done that and they don't mind answering. Also check and make sure that the other buyers are legimate just maybe this person has different ebay identies and he leaves feedback for himself. Sounds fishy to me. If he has time to answer your emails with a shout then he certainly has time to send his information. Also call the 800 information line they just might give you an address. Good Luck
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labbie1
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posted on September 26, 2000 08:49:39 AM new
which reminds me--have you tried a reverse directory to check the owner of that 800 number?
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mustpar65
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posted on September 26, 2000 07:50:16 PM new
UPDATE
Late this afternoon the seller finally sent me his PayPal address. There was one last whine about not getting my phone number, but I did get the address. I sent the payment to his verified Premiere account. Thanks for all of the responses everyone. I think if we all resist this tactic they'll have to abandon it.
Edited to add:
Geocam
If you need the address let me know.
[ edited by mustpar65 on Sep 26, 2000 07:52 PM ]
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labbie1
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posted on September 26, 2000 07:56:13 PM new
So, what kind of feedback are you leaving?
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chococake
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posted on September 26, 2000 08:02:40 PM new
labbie beat me to the question about feedback. I do hope you mention something about the 800 number.
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mustpar65
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posted on September 26, 2000 10:07:57 PM new
*IF* the item arrives quickly and is the correct item I would leave a positive with "Thanks for dropping the MANDATORY PHONE CALL" or some such.
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labbie1
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posted on September 27, 2000 05:26:52 AM new
I can't wait to see how this one turns out. 
Good feedback!
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Geocam
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posted on September 27, 2000 05:42:31 AM new
mustpar65
Oh, yes, please send me the paypal address!!!
[email protected]
Thanks!!!
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Geocam
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posted on September 27, 2000 09:19:36 AM new
Well, I too sent my name and address to this clown since this is what he claimed to need in his last e-mail. I finally got his Paypal address, along with a whine (just like mustpar65 got) about how I had not included my phone number. I have received the information I need to pay for the auction just 25 short days after EOA!!!!
Now for the funny part. When I checked my e-mails, there were two from this seller. The second one actually states that my order has been shipped and gives me the tracking number. I haven't even paid yet!!!! Maybe he is telling the truth that he is simply incapable of handling an order that does not come in via his "system."?????
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labbie1
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posted on September 27, 2000 09:45:00 AM new
What an unprofessional and terrible way to do business!
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dc9a320
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posted on September 27, 2000 10:03:15 AM new
Geocam: Incredible to see how the one reacted. You just try to get some very simple, cut-and-paste information from them, and they start calling it "EMAIL TAG." The shouting is ugly too. Even if the problem is as relatively innocent as having an old and rather rigid system, they look very unprofessional.
sg52: Interesting thought that could certainly be true. The only thing is I'd think high-pressure phone tactics would leave a sour taste with many callers, and that some of them would leave more negatives or neutrals.
So... either the seller has a very rigid (and outdated) order processing system, is trolling for phone numbers for telemarketing purposes, or wants to pressure people over the phone.
Yes, I too would be most interested to hear what a few bidders who did call would have to say on the last possibility (I wouldn't blanket all of them with email, though, just one at a time, maybe a few total).
Glad to hear the one finally gave in.
Geocam and mustpar65: have you found out if it's the same seller?
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mustpar65
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posted on September 27, 2000 03:52:35 PM new
dc9a320
Yes I'm sure that it is the same seller. Same EOA wording, same all caps emails, same typos. I suppose the good news is that apparently they have wised up and are FINALLY backing off from the mandatory phone call requirement.
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macandjan
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posted on September 27, 2000 08:22:41 PM new
[ edited by macandjan on Dec 3, 2000 07:18 PM ]
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bobbysoxer
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posted on September 27, 2000 10:09:49 PM new
Good insight macandjan however, if I was a valued customer of this seller and he/she explain to me their situation I would understand but would still refuse to give my phone number.
Just today I got a spam wanting info on me and guess what one item was? My phone number! Can you imagine that?
As a seller I understand (or try to as much as I can) where my valued customers are coming from. I respect my customers privacy. If they refuse (or hesitate) to give me their phone number and I had a situation I would explain to them with a customer service sincere smile why I would want their phone number.
In the word "customer" **you** [the customer] comes before **me** [the seller] in my opinion applies with this phone number issue.
Also please correct me anyone but if this is the situation isn't the seller doing business in the wrong medium? And couldn't he/she use spell check? Am I showing my ignorance? Ooops there it is!
Matter of fact just before I post this I just remembered that I have a former customer who is responsible for "a few" spams like save the whales and such. So harvesting info has different tactics.
(I know it was this particular buyer because about two months after the sell was completed the customer emails me at my paypal address -different from my eBay- to confirm the addy. Of course, I responded because of "repeat customers" Shortly after that I received a spam from the customer's addy and another one followed about a month later.)
EDITED TO WRITE: I have never asked for my valued customer's phone number. I was simple doing a scenerio with a suggested condition. Nor have I asked anyone to call me! as the original subject matter of this thread is all about.
not bobbysoxer on eBay
[ edited by bobbysoxer on Sep 27, 2000 10:13 PM ]
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macandjan
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posted on September 28, 2000 05:02:36 AM new
[ edited by macandjan on Dec 3, 2000 07:19 PM ]
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geocam
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posted on October 5, 2000 01:56:48 PM new
Update:
I received my item via Airborne even before I paid, and I was only paying $1.65 for shipping. I dared to hope this guy was seeing the light about his business practices. I was going to post feedback today and intended to leave a neutral since it took me nearly a month to get the information out of him to make the Paypal payment. I got a big surprise on his feedback page. Someone left him his first negative today about his methods:
Complaint: Seller would not provide mailing address,via email,to complete this transaction!
Only SEVEN MINUTES later, this seller leaves a retaliatory neg for the buyer:
Complaint: LEAVES NEGATIVES AND DOES NOT COMPLETE THE SALE F--STAY AWAY
I know I should suck it up and go leave him a neutral or even a neg in spite of knowing he will retaliate. I just wish there was some other way to deal with this guy that would hurt him and not me.
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abingdoncomputers
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posted on October 5, 2000 02:02:31 PM new
If they need your phone number so badly, why don't they just pull your User info from eBay and get it?
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abacaxi
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posted on October 5, 2000 05:40:14 PM new
geocam -
Go ahead and leave the neg Buyers will applaud you, and so will sellers.
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macandjan
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posted on October 5, 2000 05:59:37 PM new
[ edited by macandjan on Dec 3, 2000 07:19 PM ]
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chococake
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posted on October 5, 2000 06:57:31 PM new
I know you don't want a neg from him but please consider giving him one. Finally someone else did so maybe more will follow. It's hard to believe he's gone this long without getting someone mad enough to neg him.
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dc9a320
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posted on October 5, 2000 11:11:24 PM new
I understand not wanting to end up taking a retaliatory hit, but I agree it would be a service for others if you did point out the problem.
This is what I would leave:
"Got item, but seller DEMANDED I *CALL* HIM. Not in his ad's TOS. No way!"
If he retaliated, I'd respond with something like:
"Refused to email pay-to info for month. Kept demanding I *CALL* him first!"
I would definitely mention the *CALL* part, as that would (rightly in this case, it seems to me) bother some viewers.
Personally, there is no way *I* would let this one off the hook, even though my FB is a to-this-point spotless +60-something!
Just my opinions.
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mustpar65
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posted on October 8, 2000 02:41:47 AM new
UPDATE
I received my item on Friday, Oct. 6th. The
postmark was October 2nd and I had paid for the item via PayPal on Sep. 26th. Now 6 days to ship after receiving a credit card payment is excessive I feel, but if that were the only problem I would have let it slide. He might even have gotten a "Faint Praise" positive like "Item received". But coupled with all of the other BS the only choice is neutral or negative.
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skyscout
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posted on October 8, 2000 03:24:19 AM new
Who cares? I am amazed at the things people will get upset about. I mean really, just go call from a payphone if it is that big of a problem. I don't know why people are so indignant about junk mail/spam/sales calls. The calls are a pain, but really it is all a minor concern. No, I don't work for a telemarketer.
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mustpar65
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posted on October 8, 2000 06:35:45 PM new
skyscout
I agree with you on Spam and Junkmail. Those can be disposed of rather easily. But it's when they start calling me at home that I get annoyed. If it happens once or twice a month, no biggie. But somebody who is in the business of harvesting phone numbers will sell your phone number again and again and again for years to come. And each person they sell your number to will in turn re-sell. Of the three, Spam, Junkmail and Telemarketing, Telemarketing is exponentially more intrusive and annoying.
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macandjan
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posted on October 8, 2000 07:35:45 PM new
[ edited by macandjan on Dec 3, 2000 07:20 PM ]
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