posted on July 22, 2005 07:10:40 AM
Haha, I got you going over the edge! You say,""Oh and why did you feel the need to edit your last post where you called our government the terrorists? ""
Gee, stupid if you quit frothing at the mouth you'll see I didn't edit that out
posted on July 22, 2005 08:07:22 AM
Keep in mind that the Senate has yet to take up it's two versions of reauthorization, and one of the senate versions applies a 4 year sunset on the snoop clauses, and is stricter in some other respects too. Nothing's final yet.
____________________________________________
Fue por lana y salió trasquilado...
posted on July 22, 2005 08:35:50 AM
I already mention that fact, profe.
What I'm pointing out here is mingotree/crowfarm is NOT willing to post her source or the writers name and her story totally misled us in that the House had voted and wasn't allowing these two issues to remain.....when in fact they have. So....the 'snoops weren't defeated as crowfarm implied.
------------
And speaking about other safety issues, necessary in these times is the fact that in NY they are now checking passengers 'totes', be they backpacks or etc. If people don't want to be searched....they can choose alternative transportation.
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBD4DTGGBE.html
Measures like these and the Patriot Act are not set up to intrude on our civil rights....but rather to weed-out those who wish to blow up innocent people....as was done on 9-11 and now in London, twice.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Jul 22, 2005 08:41 AM ]
posted on July 22, 2005 08:48:01 AMStill NO verification of your source....just talk about everything else in an effort to avoid posting where you got it from.
It appears as if your google skills are diminishing, Linda. I had no problem finding the source. Why can't you.
It certainly gave logansdad the false impression that our House had 'changed it's mind because of the London bombings....which, of course happened BEFORE your article was written.
Let's see Linda, the OP was dated June 16,2005,
When did the London bombings happen - early July. What kind of calendar do you have when July comes before June. Linda you better go see a doctor because your memory is slipping very fast.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on July 22, 2005 08:54:33 AMallowing federal agents to use roving wiretaps and to search library and medical records.
Now how does searching medical records have anything to do with fighting terrorism.
I guess the FBI is going to round up anyone that has had heart problems or a mamogram.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on July 22, 2005 08:59:38 AM
Once again, logan, your comprehension problem is clearly evident.
YOU implied in one of your posts that 'they CHANGED their minds - because of the London bombings'. It took another terrorist attack in order for the members of the House to change their mind.
But YOU presented no proof of that. You quoted NO ONE saying 'I was going to vote against this...but decided not to after what happened in London.'
Because the AP mentions that the London bombings were discussed, is not PROOF anyone would have voted differently IF the London bombings hadn't taken place. Of course they're being discussed....all over the world.
What was decided in the house....was whether or not those two sections of the PA were going to be kept in place. THEY decided they WERE....NOT as MT/CF's article implied.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Jul 22, 2005 09:05 AM ]
posted on July 22, 2005 09:04:21 AMMeasures like these and the Patriot Act are not set up to intrude on our civil rights....but rather to weed-out those who wish to blow up innocent people....as was done on 9-11 and now in London, twice.
Linda 9/11 could have been prevented years ago if the airline industry would have instituted better safety measures. Years ago (Nixon administration)it was suggested "terrorists" could hijack a plane and fly them into buildings. It was only after 9/11, the airline industry reinforced their cockpit doors. How many hijackings occurred in the 1980's? How many planes were bombed during prior to 9/11? Each time a tragic event occurred and the commission researching the tragedy made a suggestion, the airline industry balked at their suggestions. Why because it would cost them to much money. The airlines were more concerned with profit.
Furthermore, you still can't explain how searching library records or medical records could prevent a London style terrorist attack from happening here in the U.S.
If people want to blow up something using bombs there are plenty of sources available besides getting the information from a library.
I guess the government is going to start investigating anyone studying chemistry or that has previously worked for companies that have made explosives or those people that have jobs defusing bombs.
All you chemists out there better watch out. The government will start assuming you know how to make explosives with your skills.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
[ edited by logansdad on Jul 22, 2005 09:13 AM ]
posted on July 22, 2005 09:13:13 AM
Continue to re-hash the past....it's over...done...we're dealing with the 'here and now'...and what needs to be continued....these two parts of the PA.
And yes, like the one bomber yesterday....who when his explosive didn't go off as planned RAN to the hospital because he was burned. THOSE RECORDS....that would prove the explosive material was on his body. Not everybody ends up in the hospital with explosive material all over them.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on July 22, 2005 09:20:26 AM
Oh, and by-the-way....nothing at all wrong with my searching abilites. I did that before asking MT/CF to tell others her resource/writer.
Guess she's too embarassed to admit where she got it from.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on July 22, 2005 09:20:47 AM
Quote:
"The Republicans are so lucky....they want to pass a bill ??, just scare people with a very convenient bombing.
Want to invade a country with no grounds for invasion,
have some planes fly into buildings...always so so convenient."
You are a sick person. Please get psychiatric help before you go too far. You are getting mighty close to the edge.
posted on July 22, 2005 09:47:14 AMin these times is the fact that in NY they are now checking passengers 'totes', be they backpacks or etc. If people don't want to be searched....they can choose alternative transportation.
I thought I would add to this the fact that I am one of the people who takes a train in and out of Grand Central Station twice each day and I carry a backpack. Neither I nor anyone I know has any problem with random searches of backpacks. If a cop or national guardsman wants to look through my stuff, they can have at it. Nearly 4 million people ride the subways and trains in and around Manhattan every day so there is no way everyone is going to get searched. But speaking as someone who commutes in a high risk area, I'm happy to see some action being taken.
posted on July 22, 2005 10:20:03 AMAnd yes, like the one bomber yesterday....who when his explosive didn't go off as planned RAN to the hospital because he was burned. THOSE RECORDS....that would prove the explosive material was on his body.
Wow the police would rather search hospital records instead of releasing video surveillance photos and doing their own police work to capture them.
Not everybody ends up in the hospital with explosive material all over them.
Just the stupid criminals.
And your reasoning goes to show it does nothing to PREVENT ANOTHER ATTACK. All it does it help in the apprehension of the criminal.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on July 22, 2005 10:33:04 AM
logansdad, spout all you want. I ride the tube in London a lot and I fly a lot. The more safety checks, the more aids that the police have, the better. They are welcome to search me, check anything they want. I have nothing to hide.
Why put down someone who posts above you that they ride the subway and don't mind being searched.
Do you ride the subway, or have you even seen one??
posted on July 22, 2005 10:51:02 AMDo you ride the subway, or have you even seen one??
Yes I know what a subway is and rode on it everyday for 4 years while in college.
Currently I ride a commuter train to/from work everyday and have done so for the past 5 years. So I guess I am quite aware of riding public transportation.
I am not against law enforcement doing searches before riding public transportation. I know this is for my safety. However I am against the government invading people's privacy in the name of safety.
If the police want to search people's bags before getting on a plane, train or bus. Go ahead. That could PREVENT a tragedy. However with the number of people that get on trains and buses there is no way to search every single one of them. Nor is there a way to inspect every single piece of commuter equipment every day.
Suppose you do check everyone getting on the train for a bomb. What's to stop a terrorist from driving a car full of explosives directly into the path of a train. (This won't happen in a true underground subway, but it can happen with commuter rail lines). You will get the same death and carnage using the same type of bombs, but now it is done in a different way than before. Now tell me how do you protect against this type of tragedy?
I do not see how a government agency searching what a person checks out at the library or a person's medical records will do to PREVENT a tragedy like 9/11 or the London subway attacks. This is what Linda keeps claiming. All this is necessary to PREVENT another tragedy. Can she prove that a London style attack WILL NOT occur here in the U.S.? No she can't. This kind of attack can and probably will happen - with or without the Patriot Act.
There are ways of protecting America without violating a person's civil rights.
Even with all the security at the airport, the system is not full proof. The security being provided is only as good as the people doing the screening.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on July 22, 2005 10:56:02 AMWhy put down someone who posts above you that they ride the subway and don't mind being searched
Maybe if read what is written you will see that I did no such thing. Please show me where I spouted off against someone being searched. That's right you wont find it.
They are welcome to search me, check anything they want. I have nothing to hide.
If Bush decides that cavity searches should be part of the Patriot Act because they are necessary to prevent terrorist attacks I bet you would have no problem being subjected to a cavity search every time you got on to a plane.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on July 22, 2005 10:57:05 AM
"Plainclothes police chased a man in a thick coat through a subway station, wrestled him to the floor of a train car and shot him to death in front of stunned commuters Friday. Police said the shooting was "directly linked" to the investigations of the bomb attacks on London's transit system."
posted on July 22, 2005 10:58:46 AM
Cavity searches. Since I carry 3 bullet fragments in my right shoulder, I practically have to strip at security checkpoints anyway.
posted on July 22, 2005 11:02:41 AM
Part of what you DON'T get, logan, is that these laws are already being used to get criminals....and when previosly passed, extended to those believed to be terrorists.
from mywaynews
[i]The roving wiretap provision, Section 206, allows investigators to obtain warrants to intercept a suspect's phone conversations or Internet traffic without limiting it to a specific phone or identifying the suspect. The records provision, Section 215, authorizes federal officials to obtain "tangible items" such as business, library and medical records.
Advocates argued that such powers already exist in criminal investigations so they should be expressly continued for terrorism investigations. They also cited safeguards in the bill, such as a requirement that a judge approve the records search.
---
And you're wrong again on they don't prevent terrorism. They most certainly have...in many states where suspected terrorists HAVE BEEN APPREHENDED. NY, Lodi, CA, FL, IL....and a couple of other states.
It HAS prevented their actions from being finalized. Where have you been?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Jul 22, 2005 11:06 AM ]
posted on July 22, 2005 11:06:16 AM
LindaTwelveK says,
--What I'm pointing out here is mingotree/crowfarm is NOT willing to post her source or the writers name and her story totally misled us --
So the Queen of "Don't Speak for Me" is "we" and "us"......maybe she has a turd in her pocket or maybe....she's refferring to herself and her alter-ego Twelvepole.
And maybe that's why she gets so upset in her posts....she can't use the "Twelve" ID for all the gross insults (long gone Twelve) and is turning purple trying to keep "Twelve" away from the keyboard.
Let's guard those evil libraries and just ignore the suitcase nukes floating around the U.S. coming into the country with the greatest of ease.
posted on July 22, 2005 11:13:50 AM
Well...mingotree/crowfarm.....looks like it's YOUR credibility that is in question here. You unresourced post/writer has been proven to have stated an untruth...proven wrong by the Associated Press.
I do understand why you'd be embarassed to not mention the site you got it from though.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on July 22, 2005 11:28:24 AM
From The Federalist Patriot - today:
Terrorist cells have been dismantled in New York, Oregon, Virginia and Florida, and their support groups have been prosecuted in California, Texas, New Jersey, Illinois, North Carolina and Ohio.
In December of this year, 16 critical provisions of the Patriot Act are set to expire. Fortunately, the House has reauthorized 14 of those provisions with 10-year sunset provisions on the remaining two. The Senate will take up this measure in the fall.
Congressional debate is needed because there are legitimate civil-liberty concerns and, accordingly, The Patriot supports the sunset provisions, but in the estimation of our legal scholars and national-security analysts, stalling legislation over those concerns does not outweigh the risk of catastrophic terrorist attacks.
President Bush, calling on the Senate to renew these provisions, warned, "As we wage the war on terror overseas, we'll remember where the war began -- right here on American soil. In our free and open society, there is no such thing as perfect security. To protect our country, we have to be right 100 percent of the time. To hurt us, the terrorists have to be right only once."
Deputy Attorney General James Comey testified before Congress: "You want to catch a terrorist with his hands on the check instead of his hands on the bomb. You want to be many steps ahead of the devastating event. The way we do that is through preventive and disruptive measures, by using investigative tools to learn as much as we can, as quickly as we can, and then incapacitating a target at the right moment."
The Senate should not delay renewal of all these provisions because they enable investigators to use the same methods to investigate terrorists that are now used in routine criminal investigations, and they authorize investigators to track computer espionage and cyber-terrorism. To address civil-liberty concerns, the Patriot Act comports with constitutional constraints, requiring, for example, a federal judge's approval to wiretap a foreign terrorist's phone, to track his calls, or to search his property.
Congressional Democrats have attempted to hold critical Patriot Act provisions hostage as political fodder, and the consequences of their folly could be catastrophic.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on July 22, 2005 12:01:10 PMPart of what you DON'T get, logan, is that these laws are already being used to get criminals....and when previosly passed, extended to those believed to be terrorists.
You show me one case where the use of library records or medicals records have led to the arrest of terrorists cells that you have mentioned below.
And you're wrong again on they don't prevent terrorism. They most certainly have...in many states where suspected terrorists HAVE BEEN APPREHENDED. NY, Lodi, CA, FL, IL....and a couple of other states.
Now show me what provisons of the Patriot Act were used to arrest these people. It could have been any provision of the Patriot Act. We are specifically talking about the medical and library records here Linda. Not the use of wire taps.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on July 22, 2005 12:02:15 PM
"Plainclothes police chased a man in a thick coat through a subway station, wrestled him to the floor of a train car and shot him to death in front of stunned commuters Friday. Police said the shooting was "directly linked" to the investigations of the bomb attacks on London's transit system."
That'll make the bombers think twice.
I am sure the sucide bombers are shaking in their boots. Those that have a death wish are not afraid to die for their cause.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on July 22, 2005 12:02:53 PM
What is wrong with this statement?
""But the administration has said weakening of the act would draw a veto from President George W Bush. ""
You mean Bush would LIKE a weakened version? Really LindaTwelveK, I don't think so, how dumb can you get ?
And you still haven't answered this:
Haha, I got you going over the edge! You say,""Oh and why did you feel the need to edit your last post where you called our government the terrorists? ""
Gee, stupid if you quit frothing at the mouth you'll see I didn't edit that out
Gee LindaK are you unable to read...is that why you've never been in a library...you know they do have audio tapes and cds but you may need an interpreter
posted on July 22, 2005 12:08:31 PM
OH Logan, I didn't catch that about the suicide bombers thinking twice...;.OH HahahahaROFLMAO!
Extexbill is a GENIUS!
Oh my gadzooks....ya, they're scared to death of dying NOW!!! Ho Hahehheee!
posted on July 22, 2005 12:12:52 PM
"I am sure the sucide bombers are shaking in their boots. Those that have a death wish are not afraid to die for their cause."
Apparently they only have a death wish until they accomplish their insane acts. When it doesn't go as planned and they get burned, they run for the hospital. "Oh, help me I'm hurt". Not so brave now, huh?? I wonder if he was severely burned like some of the victims of the bombings.
Thinking, hey I may get shot and put into prison for life and won't get to see those virgins in Paradise, might get some to thinking. Shoot away, Bobbies.
