posted on July 22, 2005 12:20:42 PM
"If Bush decides that cavity searches should be part of the Patriot Act because they are necessary to prevent terrorist attacks I bet you would have no problem being subjected to a cavity search every time you got on to a plane."
Logansdad.....speaking of people who like having their cavities searched.....
[ edited by classicrock000 on Jul 22, 2005 12:30 PM ]
posted on July 22, 2005 12:21:30 PM
etex, so far as I know the rightie neocons haven't suppressed free speech YET...they're trying but they have to do it slowly(as they're doing) so that the dumbest people aren't alarmed or even see it coming.
So I will say what I want. Don't like it , skip it.
You may need counseling if you think suicide bombers are afraid of dying
posted on July 22, 2005 12:23:51 PM
But etex, turn me in...won't matter when they find out I went to the library and checked out a book on WWII where they BOMBED Hiroshima I'm sure I'll be on my way to Gitmo
posted on July 22, 2005 12:27:06 PM
Quote: " posted on July 22, 2005 09:20:47 AM edit Quote:
"The Republicans are so lucky....they want to pass a bill ??, just scare people with a very convenient bombing.
Want to invade a country with no grounds for invasion,
have some planes fly into buildings...always so so convenient."
Turn you in, mingotree. Thanks, I might just do that. Our local FBI office is only 15 minutes away and they are interested in nuts.
People who make these kind of statements are just that. You are not rational mingo. I know it, you know it and your friends know it.
posted on July 22, 2005 12:27:20 PMMeasures like these and the Patriot Act are not set up to intrude on our civil rights....
Yeah why are there many major cities across the country that have passed ordinances not to follow the Patriot Act.
http://www.bordc.org/index.php
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on July 22, 2005 12:32:57 PM
Suicide bombers afraid of dying?
Did you see this one mingo and logansday:
posted on July 22, 2005 12:12:52 PM edit "I am sure the sucide bombers are shaking in their boots. Those that have a death wish are not afraid to die for their cause."
Apparently they only have a death wish until they accomplish their insane acts. When it doesn't go as planned and they get burned, they run for the hospital. "Oh, help me I'm hurt". Not so brave now, huh?? I wonder if he was severely burned like some of the victims of the bombings.
Thinking, hey I may get shot and put into prison for life and won't get to see those virgins in Paradise, might get some to thinking. Shoot away, Bobbies.
You didn't answer that one either.
It's called pick and choose the ones I want to answer.
posted on July 22, 2005 12:36:43 PM
OOHH Etex I can't talk ...there's a plain blue Chevy pulling up in the driveway ! OOoHH they have badges, guns and TRENCHCOATS!!!
OOH they're hauling me away from my computer ! Hellllpp!!
Oh well the REPUBLICAN senator who toured Gitmo said it's just like a country club and I can get a nice tan....and NO snow!
posted on July 22, 2005 12:53:55 PM
"OOHH Etex I can't talk ...there's a plain blue Chevy pulling up in the driveway ! OOoHH they have badges, guns and TRENCHCOATS!!!
OOH they're hauling me away from my computer ! Hellllpp!!"
I guess theres a GOD after all
[ edited by classicrock000 on Jul 22, 2005 12:55 PM ]
posted on July 22, 2005 05:04:59 PMLogansdad.....speaking of people who like having their cavities searched.....
Yeah classic why don't you tell us all about your experiences. How many men did you let search your cavity while on shore leave from the Navy? I am sure you looked forward to those hot men in San Fran. After all it was your ass they were all attracted to. Ah come now, you were the one bragging about how you could turn men on.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on July 22, 2005 05:09:37 PM
What is wrong with this statement?
""But the administration has said weakening of the act would draw a veto from President George W Bush. ""
You mean Bush would LIKE a weakened version? Really LindaTwelveK, I don't think so, how dumb can you get ?
And you still haven't answered this:
Haha, I got you going over the edge! You say,""Oh and why did you feel the need to edit your last post where you called our government the terrorists? ""
Gee, stupid if you quit frothing at the mouth you'll see I didn't edit that out
Gee LindaK are you unable to read...is that why you've never been in a library...you know they do have audio tapes and cds but you may need an interpreter
posted on July 22, 2005 05:19:39 PM
The Bush administration used a sweeping interpretation of a provision in the Patriot Act to block disclosure of even innocuous information, the American Civil Liberties Union said Tuesday.
Previously censored material was released for the first time Tuesday in a lawsuit in which a federal judge last year struck down a provision of the Patriot Act. The material the government wanted withheld included the phrase "national security" and this sentence from a statement by an FBI agent: "I am a Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation."
The ACLU and an unnamed Internet service provider challenged the FBI's use of expanded powers under the Patriot Act to compel Internet access firms to turn over information about their customers or subscribers. The companies were then barred from ever disclosing the searches took place.
U.S. District Judge Victor Marrero of New York ruled in September that the law violates the Fourth Amendment ban on unreasonable searches and the secrecy clause violates the First Amendment because it is a prior restraint on speech. The administration is appealing the decision.
The lawsuit itself was made public only after the ACLU reached agreement with the Justice Department on a heavily edited version.
The Justice Department insisted that the legal gag order encompass any suggestion that a firm had been served with a "national security letter," the term for the documents the FBI would issue to obtain the customer information. The ACLU protested that such information was obvious because there would otherwise be no lawsuit.
"At every turn, the government has sought to censor even the most innocuous, non-sensitive information about this case," said ACLU associate legal director Ann Beeson. "The use of 'national security' to suppress non-sensitive information deprives the public of basic information about government activity."
Justice Department spokesman Kevin Madden declined to discuss specific material that had been censored. "Redactions in classified documents are made with careful consideration of national security concerns and after input from law enforcement agencies," Madden said.
The edited documents were letters from the Justice Department and the ACLU, legal filings, a statement from ACLU executive director Anthony Romero and the FBI agent's declaration.
The agent described his delivery of the letter and conversations with its recipient and an ACLU lawyer. The statement had been blacked out in its entirety, except for the agent's declaration that he was telling the truth.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on July 22, 2005 05:21:18 PM
By Ashlee Vance in Chicago
Published Thursday 6th January 2005 00:51 GMT
A New Jersey miracle man has been charged under the Patriot Act for allegedly shining a laser into two pilots' eyes.
David Banach could face up to 25 years in prison and a $500,000 fine for disrupting the operator of a mass transportation vehicle - a charge covered under the controversial Patriot Act - and lying to the FBI. Authorities claim that Banach, 38, admitted to shining a laser at a jet plane and at a helicopter flying over his home. The jet pilots were momentarily blinded by the green laser light, according to state officials. Their Cessna Citation flying at 3,000 feet had six passengers.
Earlier this week, the FBI dismissed the idea that a string of "laser in the cockpit" incidents were part of a terrorist plot to bother pilots. The Feds, however, have now applied the long arm of the Patriot Act - invented after the Sept. 11 attacks - to Banach's supposed crime.
"We are not saying this is a grand terrorist incident," U.S. Attorney Christopher Christie told the New York Post. "We have to send a clear message to the public - no matter what the intent was."
Banach says he was simply playing with his daughter, showing off the new laser bought for his job as a fiber optic cable tester. His lawyer Gina Mendola Longarzo said the state is using Banach as a "sacrificial lamb."
"I don't think the Patriot Act was enacted to cover this kind of unintentional conduct," she told the Post.
Beyond the possible misuse of the Patriot Act, there are other issues here. After reading our laser story earlier in the week, a number of Register readers questioned the odds of anyone on the ground being able to shine a laser into the eye of a pilot. Banach is supposed to have hit the jet three times with his laser, managing to strike the pilots' pupils at least once. That's quite an amazing feat.
Maybe the FBI should really be looking for Cyclops. The X-MEN are headquartered in New York after all.
Elsewhere, gang members are also being charged under the Patriot Act. Don't plenty of laws already exist for sentencing thugs and murderers? ®
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on July 22, 2005 05:25:05 PM
Bob Barr
Patriot Act's renewal unites unlikely allies
Wed May 4, 2005 04:14
64.140.159.93
Posted on Tue, May. 03, 2005
Patriot Act's renewal unites unlikely allies
BY FRANK DAVIES
Knight Ridder Newspapers
WASHINGTON - Congress is moving steadily toward re-enactment of the USA Patriot Act, which gave the federal government extensive search and surveillance powers to fight terrorism.
But there are a few surprises.
An unlikely coalition of groups including civil libertarians and gun owners want changes, Republican senators are asking tough questions, and a former top legal adviser in the FBI told Knight Ridder that some of the Patriot Act's powers are too broadly defined.
"The law as written simply does not inspire sufficient confidence to overcome the fear of abuse," Michael Woods, chief of the FBI's national security law unit when the act was passed in 2001, wrote in a law journal article to be published later this month.
Woods, in an interview Monday, said he favored allowing investigators access to personal records only if the data were directly relevant to an investigation and if a judge was given more discretion in approving the government's request for them.
"Right now that section is broader than the people who use it intended it be, so some of the criticism has been valid," said Woods, who now works for MZM Inc., a defense contractor.
The overall tone of the debate over the Patriot Act has shifted from often-emotional opposition, sometimes marked by misunderstandings, to a carefully targeted examination of the 342-page bill, which Congress passed hurriedly six weeks after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.
"There were plenty of exaggerations and fear-mongering in the beginning from both sides," said Mary DeRosa, an analyst with the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "The act was either the only way to stop terrorism or it was going to lead to a dossier on every American."
Even the American Civil Liberties Union concedes that much of the act isn't controversial. Suggestions for change, such as Woods' recommendations, often focus on tightening legal language.
Viet Dinh, who as assistant attorney general was a primary author of the act, said Tuesday that he feels vindicated by this year's debate.
"The act was never as controversial or dramatic as it was made out to be," said Dinh, a Georgetown University law professor. "I think it will be re-enacted with few changes."
But the law, designed to prevent more terrorist attacks, was certainly far-reaching. It broke down barriers between law enforcement and intelligence officials, and it made it easier for them to tap phones, search records, monitor Internet transactions and collect data. It also lowered the standards for warrants in some cases.
Even defenders of the Patriot Act conceded it didn't get close attention on Capitol Hill at the time of passage, so they attached a "sunset" requirement in which 16 provisions of the bill, including the one offering easier access to records, be reviewed this year. If they aren't renewed, they expire.
"That was a brilliant piece of engineering," said Neal Katyal, a Washington lawyer and former Justice Department official, because it gave Congress some leverage over the Bush administration.
Since March, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, FBI Director Robert Mueller and other top officials have trooped to Congress each week to defend the act and seek reauthorization.
Their message is that the new powers are essential but have been used with restraint. On Tuesday, Chuck Rosenberg, chief of staff to Deputy Attorney General James Comey, said special "sneak and peek" searches - in which the subject is informed of a search long after it's conducted - constituted about two out of every 1,000 searches in the last three years.
And special searches under the controversial records-access section have been used only 35 times, Gonzales said. Those were mainly for drivers' licenses and hotel records and didn't include libraries or medical records or gun sales.
But because these searches were approved by special federal courts that operate in secret, it's difficult even for Congress to monitor how the act has been used.
Members of both parties are mindful of history. Even if the FBI has been careful in using the new police powers, Democrats cite the abuses of the 1960s and 1970s, when the FBI spied on antiwar and civil rights groups.
Librarians remember the Library Awareness Program, when the FBI snooped on foreigners' reading habits, and they fear that the Patriot Act could be used to override privacy protections.
Republicans warn that a future administration might misuse the Patriot Act. Some conservative groups seeking changes worry that the act's definition of domestic terrorism is too broad and could apply to anti-abortion groups.
A bill by Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill., and Sen. Larry Craig, R-Idaho, would narrow the standards for surveillance and set time limits on delayed-notification searches.
So far, the debate on Capitol Hill has been methodical and low-key, focused on nuance, not nastiness. The House Judiciary Committee plans another hearing Thursday, more later this month, and hopes to pass its version of Patriot Act renewal by early June, spokesman Jeff Lungren said.
Another reason for the change in tone is the conciliatory approach of Gonzales. Unlike his predecessor, John Ashcroft, Gonzales has met with critics of the Patriot Act, including the ACLU and the American Library Association, and said he will consider modifications - but not major changes.
"It was a very refreshing meeting," said Carol Brey-Casiano, president of the library association, who met with Gonzales Monday. "He listened to us. We never had that opportunity with an attorney general in the recent past."
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on July 22, 2005 05:35:25 PM
By Tom Curry
National affairs writer
MSNBC
Updated: 7:50 p.m. ET April 5, 2005
WASHINGTON - The most significant news to emerge from Tuesday's Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on the USA Patriot Act was that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is willing to negotiate with members of Congress on revising the law.
While Gonzales and FBI director Robert Mueller urged the committee to retain the 15 sections of the law that expire at the end of this year, the attorney general struck a more conciliatory tone than did former attorney general John Ashcroft in his confrontations with the committee.
Congress passed the Patriot Act in October 2001, in the wake of the al-Qaida terrorist attack on Sept. 11. The law broadened existing government powers to conduct electronic surveillance and to record suspects' e-mail traffic, not only in terrorist cases but in some criminal cases as well.
Democrats on the committee said they were encouraged that Gonzales indicated he’d be willing to negotiate with Congress on revising Section 215 of the law to allow individuals or firms that are served with secret warrants under of the law to challenge those warrants in court.
Section 215 of the law empowers a special court, under the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, to issue secret orders requiring businesses or institutions to turn over records concerning terrorists or foreign agents.
Gonzales said he would work with Congress to revise the law to allow individuals and firms served with secret warrants under section 215 a greater opportunity in court than they now have to challenge the warrants.
Feingold sees hope
Sen. Russ Feingold, D–Wis., the only member of the Senate to vote against the law in 2001, said after leaving the hearing that “the attorney general has finally admitted that there are problems with the way the USA Patriot Act was written. In particular Section 215, which has to do with business records, including library records.”
"After saying there essentially should be no changes in the law, he has now proposed changes that move in the direction of the objections that I raised originally," Feingold said. "I’m hoping that this is the beginning of the recognition that this law was hastily drafted, that we have an opportunity to fix it and we can put aside the absurd claims that there is nothing wrong with the bill.”
He added, “There’s no proposal with strong support in the Congress to simply repeal any provisions, we just need to fix them.”
Although every member of the Senate except Feingold voted for the Patriot Act in 2001, some members now have a case of buyer’s remorse.
The law was passed “at a moment when our nation was gripped by high emotion and fear,” said Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., as he opened his questioning. “History tells us that we don’t do our best work under those circumstances.”
Durbin asked Gonzales about a hypothetical case that might arise under Section 215. What if, Durbin asked, the FBI gets a tip that the wife of a suspected terrorist living in the United States had gone to a clinic to get an abortion?
FBI agents “would set out through Section 215 to search the records of a hospital or clinic for all the women who had received an abortion, whether or not they might have been associated with any terrorist activities,” Durbin said.
Without commenting on Durbin’s hypothetical situation, Gonzales said Section 215 “is certainly applied as narrowly as we can.”
Concern about library, medical records
Committee Chairman Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., noted that since the enactment of the Patriot Act in October 2001, the Bush administration has not used Section 215 to get any library or medical records.
Probing Gonzales for a possible willingness to compromise, Specter asked, “Would you see any problem with specifically excluding from reauthorization of the Patriot Act authority to obtain library or medical records?”
The attorney general replied that the Justice Department “has no interest in rummaging through the library records or the medical records of Americans.”
“Does that mean you’re ready to exclude them?” from a revised Patriot Act, Specter asked.
No, Gonzales said, explaining, “We do have an interest, however, in records that may help us capture terrorists. And there may be occasions where having the tools under 215 to access this kind of information may be very helpful to the department in dealing with the terrorist threat.”
He offered an analogy: The Justice Department not using Section 215 so far to get library or medical records is like a policeman on the beat who carries a gun in 15 years of service but has never yet used it.
“It should not be held against us that we’ve exercised, in my judgment, restraint,” he told Specter.
“I don’t think your analogy is apt,” replied the chairman.
Mueller seeks new subpoenas
Despite the misgivings of some senators about the government’s powers under the Patriot Act, Mueller told the committee he saw a need for Congress to go further.
He asked the committee to give the FBI in terrorism cases what it already has in Medicare fraud and child pornography cases: the power to use an administrative subpoena to quickly get documents needed in an investigation, without going before a judge to get a court order.
Mueller said the FBI often gets information from the CIA and other sources on terrorist threats. “We need to immediately find out whether that information is accurate or inaccurate. We need basic records from third parties,” such as hotel records. Usually hotels voluntarily turn such records over to the FBI, but Mueller said administrative subpoenas would be useful.
The person served with such a subpoena could challenge it in court and seek to have it quashed.
Gonzales and Mueller got support from one committee Democrat, Sen. Dianne Feinstein of California, who said, “I have no reported abuses” of the law, adding that her office had looked into thousands of alleged abuses.
Much of the parrying between the Democratic senators and the two witnesses came over the use of Section 213 of the law, which permits judges to delay notifying a person whose property has been searched by federal agents when a delay in notification is necessary to prevent destruction of evidence, intimidation of witnesses or escape of suspects.
The Justice Department said it has asked for 155 such warrants since 2001.
Under questioning by Feinstein, Gonzales reminded her that Section 213 “was not limited only to terrorism cases. The fact that the authority was used in connection with other kinds of cases doesn’t mean that we have violated the law; quite the contrary … we exercised the authority that was granted by this Congress.”
Questions on torture
The senior Democrat on the committee, Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., spent much of his questioning asking Gonzales about the issue of torture and whether the United States ought to send suspects to countries where the regime has tortured in the past.
Why should the Bush administration believe foreign governments who assure it that they won’t torture suspects the United States turns over to those governments? “That’s a difficult question that requires a case-by-case analysis,” Gonzales said warily. “We have an obligation not to render people to other countries when we believe it is more likely than not that they will be tortured.”
Later in the morning, Leahy posed the hypothetical: Would the United States have turned suspects over to Saddam Hussein’s government if he’d promised the U.S. government he would not torture them? Gonzales said the Bush administration seeks “very specific assurances” prohibiting torture before turning over any terrorist suspect to a foreign government.
Shortly after the hearing, a bipartisan group of senators, including Durbin, introduced a bill they call the SAFE Act, which would curtail parts of the Patriot Act, including the expiring Section 215 and the delayed notification search provision.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on July 23, 2005 04:56:15 AM
yea can ya do a few more C&P's crowfart likes those
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Baseball season has started,but they have it all wrong.3 strikes and you're out,4 balls you walk.I can tell you right now a man with 4 balls could not possibly walk
posted on July 23, 2005 05:02:18 AM
"Yeah classic why don't you tell us all about your experiences. How many men did you let search your cavity while on shore leave from the Navy? I am sure you looked forward to those hot men in San Fran. After all it was your ass they were all attracted to. Ah come now, you were the one bragging about how you could turn men on"
why dad..I think your jealous!!
however there is a difference between the
two of us.I have a tatoo on my ass that says
"exit only" unlike yours which says "sperm bank"
posted on July 23, 2005 05:27:39 AM
I have a tatoo on my ass that says
"exit only" unlike yours which says "sperm bank"
And how would you know what I have on my ass. You must like looking at other guy's asses to see how their tattoo is different from yours. Please why don't you tell us, what other kind of tatoos you have seen on guy's asses. Does your wife know that you like looking at other guys asses? What don't you just admit that you like guys. based on what you say about your wife on this board, you care more about turning guys on and how they look than you do about your wife.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on July 23, 2005 05:44:03 AM
Good point Logansdad, classic sure seems to hate his wife (and any other women).
And he knocks our contributions to this thread and his last post is what? Intelligent?
posted on July 23, 2005 10:27:44 AMA bunch of silly C&P's nobody even reads anyway???? LOL
And what contributions have you made of late?? I see you have finally taken your head out of your FUPA.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
