posted on July 24, 2005 11:59:04 AM
Is that supposed to be upsetting in some weird way to me? hint: It's not. I feel the same about you cheryl. You have tremendous difficulty with differing opinions....and opinions formed on the posts of others. YOUR PROBLEM....not mine.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
"...it's ALWAYS the 'good guys' that are to blame in their eyes."
Linda, the facts are smacking you right in the face and you don't have sense enough to see that you are WRONG, the police were WRONG and now an innocent individual is DEAD.
The guy that was shot five times WAS A "GOOD GUY". Being left or right should have no bearing on how this deadly assault on an innocent individual is perceived.
posted on July 24, 2005 01:53:44 PM
LOL helen .....did you miss all the other posts that ALSO tried to point out that the murdered man's actions also played a part in why this shooting happened?
No....you didn't...you and cheryl just choose to totally ignore how HIS actions added to the shooting occurring.
you say: Being left or right should have no bearing on how this deadly assault on an innocent individual is perceived.
LOL....I didn't say ALL ultra-lefties.....just you and cheryl because you both always refuse to look at the 'law enforcement' side of the issues. Refuse to understand the events as they were after four successful bombing attemps and then another four attempted bombings.
So be clear helen....I am NOT under the impression that ALL ultra-liberals agree with you and cheryl's position....I think many more can use common sense to see how something like this did happen.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on July 24, 2005 02:40:13 PM
LOL LInda! I can't speak for Cheryl but I wear your dislike of me like a badge of distinction! I wouldn't want it any other way.
I know that you would just love to institute a locked-down military dictatorship with a shoot-to-kill policy in the streets. That would be right up your narrow-minded alley. I can see you marching in lock step like a lemming off the cliff as Bush declares martial law.
If you travel to London, don't run if someone points a gun at you.
posted on July 24, 2005 03:06:28 PM "No....you didn't...you and cheryl just choose to totally ignore how HIS actions added to the shooting occurring."
You ignore the actions of the armed men who SHOT this innocent person five times.
Tell me linda, what kind of behavior in the street justifies a shooting in the head...not just once but five times? I know that in the District of Columbia there are many homeless people who carry all that they own in large sacks or in old grocery carts. They wear inappropriate clothing for the season of the year, and they may look anxious---while wondering where they may get their next meal or fearful that someone will steal their meager belongings. Do they deserve to be shot in the street, Linda???
What kind of behavior on the part of this victim are we ignoring....a 27 year old electrician shot in the head five times.
posted on July 24, 2005 04:46:50 PM
It's hopeless, Helen. She'll never get it. Heaven help the eccentric in the world. I'm betting no one ever gave a thought to the fact that this young man comes from Brazile where it's tropical and that he just might find London's weather a little chilly. To him, a jacket was probably in order.
Edited to add: I'm quite proud to be hated by the likes of Linda, Helen! On that note, you can speak for me anytime!
Cheryl
[ edited by cblev65252 on Jul 24, 2005 04:47 PM ]
posted on July 24, 2005 05:05:54 PM
You would have thought the police might have wanted to bring this guy in for questioning in order to learn about the ties to his terrorist group, to see if there may be other bombings planned.
Oops can't do that now. What was wrong with shooting him in the leg. That would have made him stop. Na, it is easier to question someone with bullet holes in their brain.
Does any know if British police use tazer guns?
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on July 24, 2005 05:21:15 PM
"What was wrong with shooting him in the leg. That would have made him stop"
He was suspected f being a homocide bomber. HOW would shooting him in the leg have kept him from detonating his bomb?
As has already been said, a torso shot could have set off the explosive. A leg shot would have not stopped anything (he was apparently already ON a bus?). A head shot is the nlky was to make anyone STOP without a chance to react.
You can make excuses for why this guy was wearing a heavy winter coat in JULY all you want, but obviously the London police thought it was unusually strange. Why can't you guys just admit that this was the wrong guy in the wrong place at the wrong time and chalk it up to a justifiable mistake?
--------------------------------------
Quidquid Latine dictum sit altum sonatur.
posted on July 24, 2005 05:40:56 PM
posted on July 24, 2005 01:14:50 PM """cheryl, I'll bet your friend in London breathes easier when he gets on the tube now.
My friends sure do.
"""
Why ? Have all the terrorists been "nuked".?
I don't thiink so etexball
No, mingo/CF, but someone who was coming from a house that was under surveillance, wearing a heavy coat in July, and, when asked to stop, instead ran onto a tube train has been shot dead. That's a deterrent, in my opinion. I'll breathe easier.
As for you, what you think makes absolutely no difference to me and most people here.
It's my understanding that he was in a neighborhood that was under surveillance. Not in a house that was. BTW, it was in the cool in London that day. Not in the 90's like it is here. In fact, it could be considered cold to someone from Brazile and warrant a jacket. You guys make it sound like he was in a winter coat.
posted on July 24, 2005 06:25:39 PM
"The man was under police observation because he had emerged from a house that was being watched following Thursday's attacks, a Scotland Yard spokesman said."
Cheryl, from the BBC News.
Also: "Whitby said it didn’t look like the man was carrying anything but said he was wearing a thick coat that looked padded."
Sourced From Associated Press
[ edited by etexbill on Jul 24, 2005 06:29 PM ]
posted on July 24, 2005 06:28:38 PM
Oh really cheryl????
See, this is what I see as ONE of your problems. You just can't accept that we're all reading different reports on what actually happened.
But you continue to take what you've read and accept it as truth....the final truth. Well, guess what? It's NOT.
By Tom Hundley
Tribune foreign correspondent
Published July 24, 2005
LONDON -- Scotland Yard admitted Saturday that the man shot dead by plainclothes police officers in a London Underground train Friday had no connection to the terrorist bombings that have unnerved the capital. "For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police service regrets," the police said in a statement.
The victim was identified as Jean Charles de Menezes, 27, a Brazilian national.
The incident is certain to raise questions about a new "shoot to kill" policy that has been in place for about a year and heighten concerns among Britain's large Muslim community that they will be unjustly targeted.
Described as Asian or Pakistani by witnesses, de Menezes was wearing a heavy winter coat and apparently ran for the train after the plainclothes officers ordered him to stop. The police gave pursuit and caught him just as he boarded a train. Witnesses said he was shot at least five times at close range.
In a statement issued several hours later, police said, "the man who was shot was under police surveillance because he emerged from a house that was itself under observation because it was linked to the investigation of yesterday's incidents.
"He was then followed by surveillance officers to the station. His clothing and his behavior at the station added to their suspicions," the statement said.
The Stockwell tube station, in South London, is a stop away from the Oval station, scene of one of Thursday's botched bombing attempts.
Thus far, two men from the Stockwell area have been arrested in the case, and another residence in South London was raided Saturday night.
----------
So see cheryl....you have obviously not read all the reports about this story.
And as far as me hating you. SPEAK FOR YOURSELF......I don't hate you, I just disagree with most of your political positions. I find you extremely uninformed most of the time.
So IF it's hate you feel for me....let it eat YOU up....it won't be bothering me in the least. To me you're just another bleeding-heart liberal/socialist/progressive.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on July 24, 2005 06:45:11 PM
"BTW, it was in the cool in London that day. Not in the 90's like it is here. In fact, it could be considered cold to someone from Brazile and warrant a jacket. You guys make it sound like he was in a winter coat."
Come now, cheryl, It was 29 degrees C, that's 84.2 degrees Fahrenheit. That's warm in London.
Give it up, he emerged from a home that was under surveillance, he was wearing a heavy coat in July in 84 degree heat, he was asked to stop and didn't, he was shot, he's dead.
[ edited by etexbill on Jul 24, 2005 06:47 PM ]
[ edited by etexbill on Jul 24, 2005 06:48 PM ]
posted on July 24, 2005 06:58:34 PM
maggie, when I saw the parade for the Queen's Jubilee, the brigade of guards were wearing guns similar to AK47 assault rifles slung across their backs.
posted on July 24, 2005 07:01:45 PM"So see cheryl....you have obviously not read all the reports about this story."
Well, neither have you, linda.
Later news reports state that the entire "block" in which his apartment was located was under surveillance. He was on his way to work as an electrician.
Does anyone who supports this action question why this suspected suicide bomber was allowed to go from his apartment building and finally board the train before being shot as he was lying down?
To give police the right to shoot to kill based only on suspicion is dangerously wrong.
His home was not under surveillance. The neighborhood was. He happened to live in the neighborhood. Maybe someday another neighborhood will be under surveillance and you might have the misfortune of living there. What would you say then? The man was a VICTIM and you all treat him as though he were a criminal. I give up on the lot of you. You must have all renewed your membership to the NRA. I pity any defendant who has to go to trial with any of you sitting on the jury. You'd have him in the electric chair just because he looks different.
I will admit I was wrong about the weather. I was looking at tomorrow's which is forecast for the 60's. So, maybe you all ought to shoot me as well. He made a mistake. So did I. Only I'm still alive for the mistake I made. He's DEAD.
Helen
Nice try, but the thickness of the skulls around here is in penetrable. Their philosophy seems to be kill then ask questions later.
posted on July 24, 2005 07:14:47 PM
It's been ten years since I was last in London..Tex.. you're right, I'm sure much has changed. Maybe I'll make the Queen's Diamond Jubilee in 2012! Maggie
posted on July 24, 2005 07:24:23 PM
cheryl, my first post on this subject said I'm not happy to see an innocent person killed, but the terrorists victims were also innocent. Today's Reuters News says, they will continue to have the same orders, if a person is believed as being a bomber they have orders to "shoot to kill". As the commander said, these are extreme times.
Cheryl, I have already been shot as an innocent by-stander talking on a phone at a phone booth. I have first hand knowledge of bad things happening to good people. I still am supportive of measures that may stop these bombings. I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, so was this man.
Stuff happens. Sorry.
posted on July 24, 2005 07:43:18 PM
Etexpill's reasoning goes something like this.....kill everybody and the terrorists won't have anyone to kill...end of terrorist problem.
posted on July 24, 2005 07:53:16 PM
Basically what I get from the posters who have justified the shooting is, if someone points a gun at you, you should do what they say even if they aren't dressed in police uniforms. The shooters according to the posts were in plainclothes. I personally can understand why a person would run if five people with guns started chasing him.
posted on July 24, 2005 10:15:09 PM
And Now 5 thugs pointing guns in NY City can Mug you with ease,STOP!! Yer damned if you do, and Damned/dead if you don't, Catch 22,,,,,,What a nightmare we live in. Soooooooooo,,,,,,,,all citizens Carry Guns! equal,,,,,,,force,,,,Sooooo the COP stops you for a backpack search,,,,,,, YOU the citizen has a GUN, YOU go to Jail,,,,,,insanity!!!!!!!!!!
Edit, Mission Accomplished (by the terrorists),,,Who, is, the GOOD, the BAD, the Ugly? Terror.
[ edited by jackswebb on Jul 24, 2005 10:26 PM ]
This topic is 11 pages long: 123456789new10new11new
