posted on July 28, 2005 06:02:59 PMBut stop kidding yourself saying you dont support abortion and just support choice.
Personally, I think abortion is wrong. If I was married I would not want my wife to have an abortion. If she did not want to have a child then we would not engage in the procreation process. I would not want to be part of a process that destroys a life.
With that being said, I still respect a woman's choice. It is her body she can do what she wants with it.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
I wrote, Because of failure to stop the ongoing insurgency and diminishing support from the American people, U.S. withdrawal strategies are now under consideration.
That's the reasoning, linda. You chose to omit part of the statement.
And you should know that there is no left leaning media. The media that you think of as left...The New York Times and The Washington Post supported Bush and his war. In fact, it was their support that led to his re-election. So forget left leaning newspapers.
posted on July 28, 2005 06:09:37 PMI don't believe a person can be against this war and support the troops.
Then what do you say to those families that have lost a son or daughter to this war and then speak out against the war.
Are you going to tell them they don't support the troops?
When Rumsfeld said in a few weeks they would have everything they needed, he wasn't kidding.
Just like the typical neocon, believe everything the government says. Rumsfeld also the war could be won in a few weeks or months at most I guess 36 months is a few in your eyes.
You send the troops into war with the equipment and tools they need in order to win. How do you expect to win a war with vehicles on back-order?
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on July 28, 2005 06:13:21 PMIt's, in part, because of the LEFT leaning media....who nightly since the war started will announce every NEGATIVE things going on.....blasting our troops behavior all the time...blaming them like you were.
Of course it has nothing to do with the American people realizing they were LIED TO FROM THE BEGINNING. Bush keeps things are going as planned. I suppose the 1700+ troops killed was part of his plan, not to mention the thousands of Iraqi people that were killed.
Perhaps many Americans think Iraq is turning into another Vietnam war and is not worth the price in human or economic costs.
No, you would rather blame it on the media because it fits your agenda better
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on July 28, 2005 06:16:57 PM
Not one person on the right has ever answered the question:
What do you think of the soldiers that are against the war and speak their mind against the war and our government?
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on July 28, 2005 06:25:45 PM
Yes, logan....I've been quite clear on my position.
The anti-war left is aiding and abetting our enemies....just like they did in VN.
And they aren't smart enough to learn from history. The communists have openly admitting they were going to give up....but the anti-war left gave them reason to continue fighting OUR TROOPS.....gave them hope. They won the war because of the anti-war left Americans. And the communists even gave kerry a place of honor for the part HE played in help THEM.
And we're now watching history repeat itself....all because some American's are doing the exact same thing now.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on July 28, 2005 06:31:20 PM
helen.....I refuse to believe that anyone here - until I hear differently from THEM, that anyone else here thinks the NYT and the WA Post aren't liberal papers.
Of course, I understand YOU don't see it that way. If an article doesn't come straight from The Moscow Times....then YOU wouldn't think they're liberal.
Want to SHARE with us just what AMERICAN newspaper you think IS liberal? I'd sure like to know.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on July 28, 2005 06:33:47 PM
Never in the history of Americans going to war were they ever 100 % prepared to fight.
Different conflicts demand different equiptment, tactics and training.
Thus the phrase"You go to war with the army you have".
Was Geroge Washinton ready to fight the British?
No, the men of the contential Army provided their own clothing and arms.
But they went to war anyway.
Were we ready to go to war against Japan and Germany?
No.
But we went anyway.
Were we ready to go to war in Korea?
No.
But we went anyway.
And in Vietnam. A different war, different problems but we went anyway.
Helen and her kind purport to be experts in armed conflict, constantly criticize military policy & tactics, yet they have no first hand experience of which to speak. An armchair warrior at the very best.
A word to the wise ain't necessary, it's the stupid ones that need the advice."
- Bill Cosby
posted on July 28, 2005 06:44:06 PM
So in order to show true support for the troops, one has to bury their head in the sand and only listen to and read propaganda news and ignore all facts concerning the true story of what happened and what is happening now.
IOW, become an uninformed dummy and just go with the show! Right on!
posted on July 28, 2005 07:48:04 PM
Bear, I don't get Fox News which according to you and lindak is about the only unbiased news channel. I've been watching CBC which has won awards worldwide for factual stories but now I saw where you believe it's biased also.
So what should I be reading or watching so I can learn the error of my ways and then perhaps I can forget all this leftie stuff I've been hearing for so long.
Please post some links to reputable news sites that tell the true story of the war in Iraq. Also do you have a link to the secret Chernoff site that lindak said had the true information on how things are really good for the citizens of Iraq now?
posted on July 28, 2005 07:55:50 PM
Fox News is not biased? LOL!! Oh Damn, that's they best laugh I've had in awhile. Fox is as biased as they come but the funniest part is that the more slanted a topic, the more often they will say "Fox News: Always Fair & Balanced." i watch Fox all the time but mainly because it's obvious biase is so damn funny at times. BTW - the only place you will ever encounter the moniker "You LIberal" more than on this board in on Fox News. Alan Combes (token liberal) joked that he was going to just go ahead and change his name to that since that is how he is most frequently addressed on his show.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
No, I'm saying -- I'm merely -- I'm saying what I'm saying. I don't know why I'm always having people say, are you trying to say -- you know what you can do if you want to know what I'm saying is listen to what I'm saying. What I'm saying is what I said ...
posted on July 28, 2005 07:57:36 PMCan you love your child, even when that child does something wrong?......
Loving someone and supporting what they are doing are two different things. Some of you have the idea of what support in this case means, a bit mixed up. One could still 'love' their child/relative/friend and still not 'support' his or her lifestyle. What exactly do you think the military lifestyle is set-up to do? Hang around a motor pool all day for 20 years? As far as the neo-con government exploiting them, "all" government's use them for the sole purpose of going to war if need be. That's what soldiers do! They are trained, fed and clothed expressly for that purpose. GI Joe -government issued. Get it? And they volunteered for this, they werent drafted ya know.
.
[ edited by dblfugger9 on Jul 28, 2005 07:58 PM ]
Just curious. How is it that some socialist British newspaper or a link to some wacko web page COMMENTARY is "the true story"?
"the secret Chernoff site that lindak said had the true information on how things are really good for the citizens of Iraq now?"
No, I just ask my brother's nephews when they are home on leave. Somehow I think the answers are more accurate than a reporter from the Globe asking somebody if he was better off outside a threater that was just blown up.
[ edited by desquirrel on Jul 28, 2005 08:14 PM ]
posted on July 28, 2005 08:39:00 PM
mingotree
posted on July 28, 2005 08:22:39 AM
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[i]What was stupid about those posts?
Please point it out so I can mend my ways."[/i]
kiara
posted on July 28, 2005 07:48:04 PM
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So what should I be reading or watching so I can learn the error of my ways ....
*** Both kiara and mingotree are asking for help in correcting the errors of their ways! ********** Better get to the rescue there Linda! hahahah!!
.
posted on July 29, 2005 05:49:54 AMJust curious. How is it that some socialist British newspaper or a link to some wacko web page COMMENTARY is "the true story"?
You tell me, desquirrel. I don't read a wacko web page or rag site commentary as a reliable news source but since they are so often linked here by Bear and lindak I'm wondering why they try to use them as proof of the 'true story' of the war. Who are they trying to fool?
posted on July 29, 2005 06:21:04 AM "OT a little bit Helen, why do you constantly say your President? I was always under the impression you lived in the U.S."
NTS
The truth is that you and I have posted on this board for several years and you know very well that I am an American living in the United States. In fact, many people here know my name, address and phone number. Some even know members of my family who live in Mississippi -- their address and phone number. So, let's see...why do you need an answer that you already have?---The implication of your silly question is that since I have political beliefs directly opposed to those of the Bush administration that I must not be an American. That's an assumption, NearTheSea that is Not Too Smart but one that is understandable coming from you.
I say "your president" because he is not representative of the American values that I hold dear. He's "your president".
posted on July 29, 2005 09:25:13 AM
I know that you live here Helen. I guess I was trying to make a point that he is our President,not just mine.
If I didn't agree with say, a President that wasn't representative of the values I hold dear, and that happened to be President Clinton, did I say, your President, no, I have always respected the office. And whoever the President is, regardless if I voted for him or not, it would be our President, if I was talking about Presidents with other people.
And the not so smart comment, I will consider an endearment from you, because we have posted here together for so long
posted on July 29, 2005 09:44:41 AMLOL, dbl.....posts very much alike - hmmm...but we all know there are just some people that can't be 'helped'.
My comments were pure sarcasm because I fully realize that your links from rag sites are not the true information on Iraq.
Higher minded individuals willing to think for themselves don't want your 'help' to understand this world.
Imagine descending into the depths of your Neocon Hell, being uninformed and bitter, preaching the word of those filled with hatred towards so many others in this world.
Imagine believing in those who refuse to see the difference between a terrorist and an innocent person, those who label all others to fit their twisted agenda. What a cruel way to treat other people that you share this planet with. Do you ever stop to think that others don't ever want to be like you?
It would be a sad and pitiful way to go through each day and the hatred felt towards others would eventually rot a person's very soul.
posted on July 29, 2005 10:12:52 AM
Not nonsense. I saw the picture that Bear posted the other day and I've seen the links on some of the sites you've posted here. They are uninformed and full of hatred towards others.
But if that's what you believe in you have that right and I'm not telling you that you can't be that way, nor am I trying to change your thinking. I'm just saying that I would never want to be that way.
posted on July 29, 2005 10:59:32 AM
Not one person on the right has ever answered the question:
What do you think of the soldiers that are against the war and speak their mind against the war and our government?
The right still continues to avoid answering the question.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on July 29, 2005 11:19:50 AMRight, the old stupid, not supporting the troops equipment needs bs.
the military, based on past experiences, outfits each division with a ratio of equipment types.
When the occupation was complete they discovered that the armored personnel carriers they had were no good because they were not very maneuverable and were hard to see out of in urban settings. The guys needed Humvees, very few of which were armored
Just proves once more that this administration did not plan very well for this war:
Published on Tuesday, October 26, 2004 by the Inter Press Service
US Iraq War Veterans' Voices Rise in Protest
by Dahr Jamail
SAN FRANCISCO - With the news that members of a U.S. Army reserve platoon have been arrested in Iraq for refusing a ”suicide mission,” dissent among veterans of the U.S.-led campaign in that country continues to grow.
The recent incident mirrors other stories of troops being sent on missions without proper equipment, and again raises the spectre of plummeting troop morale as the security situation in Iraq deteriorates and elections scheduled for January approach.
Even as late as six months after the March 2003 U.S.-led attack, as many as 51,000 U.S. soldiers and civilian administrators in Iraq had still not been properly equipped with body armour and other protective gear, according to the 'Washington Post'.
Alerted to the situation, family members bought expensive flak jackets and other security gear and used international couriers to send it to the front lines.
Speaking of the low rates of readiness of his ground forces due to inadequate combat and protective equipment, the senior U.S. commander on the ground in Iraq from mid-2003 to mid-2004 said, ”I cannot continue to support sustained combat operations with rates this low.”
Lieutenant-General Ricardo Sanchez added that army units were, ”struggling just to maintain à relatively low readiness rates” for key combat systems, reported the Post'.
The mother of Amber McClenny, who serves in the platoon that in mid-October refused orders to transport fuel through an area north of Baghdad where ambushes are known to occur, told the Associated Press her daughter called and told her, ”We had broken-down trucks, non-armoured vehicles and à we were carrying contaminated fuel. They are holding us against our will. We are now prisoners.”
While a senior U.S. military official has said the unit had been ordered to carry out what is known as a maintenance stand-down and its soldiers are not under arrest, many Iraq veterans in the United States feel the incident is indicative of poor troop morale, which stems from the growing belief among soldiers that the war in Iraq is unjustified.
Army National Guard member Sergeant Kelly Dougherty served for 10 months in Iraq at Tallil Air Base, near Nasiriya. ”The people in Iraq didn't have money or jobs and their cities were destitute,” said Dougherty, who worked escorting convoys and patrols.
”I wondered how these people were functioning after they'd been through so much. They hadn't even rebuilt from the first Gulf War (in 1991).”
During a phone interview Dougherty said her unit did not even have translators for the first nine months of the occupation and were thus unable to communicate with Iraqis while conducting security patrols.
”I think it was definitely wrong to go into Iraq,” she added. ”I thought that before we went in and the intelligence is proving this now.”
Like other soldiers who are beginning to speak out against the Bush administration, Dougherty has strong words about how the war was waged. ”People say the president didn't lie -- but it's hard for me to believe that they truly thought the reasons they went in were true,” she said.
”I think we were intentionally lied to in order to get the U.S. into Iraq, and the Bush administration seized this opportunity.” The president, she added, was also being dishonest about the dangers that soldiers would face when he did not provide them with the necessary armour and supplies.
Another veteran of the war in Iraq is Corporal Alex Ryabov, who participated in the invasion of Iraq until May 9. ”What I realise after having been there is that it (the war) is such a huge waste of life on both sides,” he said in an interview.
Ryabov also commented on U.S. Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld's statement in September that the 1,000 U.S. soldiers who have died in Iraq are just some of the victims of the ”war on terrorism.”
”The reality is that Bush and Rumsfeld don't have family in the military, and they have never served. Each U.S. death in Iraq -- each of those people has family and friends, and you can't tell them that this is a small number.”
Ryabov, who served as the ammunition chief for his Marine Corps unit, believes the administration should be held to account for the horrendous situation in Iraq. ”They should be impeached. They should be put on trial.”
He also believes the administration is not doing enough to support Iraq war veterans.
”When troops come home we need to have benefits and VA (U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs) support. There are a lot of people having problems with this and no support. My friends are coming back angry and screwed up and not getting any help.”
According to the U.S. military, more than 7,500 soldiers have been injured in Iraq through Sep. 27. Of those, more than one-half did not return to action after 72 hours. But veterans' advocates say the Pentagon is not counting nearly 16,000 more soldiers evacuated from Iraq and Afghanistan for ”non-combat causes,” according to United Press International (UPI).
Another veteran who has served in the Middle East is Senior Airman Tim Goodrich. While serving two deployments at Prince Sultan Air Base for Operation Southern Watch, where he patrolled no-fly zones in southern Iraq during the build-up to the current war, ”that is when it first hit me that this was the wrong idea,” said Goodrich.
”I was watching troop movements for Iraq going through our base between August and October of 2002 à army troop movements preparing to go to war with Iraq six months before the war,” he told IPS.
Goodrich too is angry. ”I feel absolutely betrayed by this administration. I was brought up believing it was the most honourable thing to do to serve in the military. Now I've learned that it is not a glorious undertaking à and that our country isn't living up to the standards I believed it was -- that our foreign policy has been flawed for decades.”
Goodrich feels so strongly about the horrendous situation in Iraq that he has joined a group called Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW). The organisation, which started two and a half years ago with only nine members, has now grown to over 60, including active duty service personnel in Iraq.
In order to accommodate the growing numbers of Iraq veterans joining the group, IVAW is trying to obtain office space and find a part-time employee to assist in its mission of ending the occupation and seeing service members return to the United States.
The group will also be sending members on speaking tours until the end of November, according to its website.
Goodrich believes the situation in Iraq is the reason why the military has failed to meet its recruiting goals recently. And he applauded the platoon in Iraq for refusing to follow orders.
”I think it's about time that someone stood up and did something. They are working with sub-par equipment that is putting peoples' lives at risk,” he said. ”There are not enough armoured vehicles and not enough supplies for the soldiers. One hundred fifty billion dollars (has been spent) to fund these guys and the money isn't getting to where it needs to be.”
When asked what he would do if he were called up to serve in Iraq again, Goodrich replied, ”No comment.”
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
----------------------------------
President George Bush: "Over time the truth will come out."
President George Bush: "Our people are going to find out the truth, and the truth will say that this intelligence was good intelligence. There's no doubt in my mind."
Bush was right. The truth did come out and the facts are he misled Congress and the American people about the reasons we should go to war in Iraq.
posted on July 29, 2005 11:34:14 AM
The Right support treason, lies, blood shed , torture especially of children, treating our veterans like dirt, "nuking da world", the rich paying less percent taxes than the poorest , turning this country to third world status.
In other words an evil, vile, diabloical group of satanic worshippers with key boards in every room.
posted on July 29, 2005 12:24:27 PM
Of course, and we all know that your daily glorifying of Bush is of much higher priority to you than supporting any of the troops.
I would not want my wife to have an abortion. If she did not want to have a child then we would not engage in the procreation process. I would not want to be part of a process that destroys a life.
