posted on October 8, 2000 05:16:01 PM
bkmunroe If you don't find snipe bidding exciting then perhaps you've not found the right snipe service that does the bidding for you.
Agree with you on one thing--- At times it can be Extremely tedious, especially done the way your doing it. I now much of the time place my bid via a special snipe service and then forget about it.
But even the OLD way like your doing it, can still be fun if you buy similar type items often and your used to seeing the same people go after same type items, and ya just know in your gut these fellow ebayer's will be there at the close same time your trying to snipe the same item
AND if winning an auction like that doesnt get you excited--then I can only guess that maybe your bidding on items you really don't want or need.
I on the otherhand am very passionate about the items I search for & bid on.
[ edited by getkicksonrte66 on Oct 8, 2000 05:21 PM ]
posted on October 8, 2000 05:55:12 PM
HI! my name is mckenzie and I am SNIPING ADDICT! (hi mckenzie). It started out that I would only snipe an auction under rare circumstances. Before I knew it, I was sniping every auction I wanted to win. I knew I really had a problem when I went out and bought a digital timer, just for sniping. Now when I hear a timer go off, my right index finger automatically makes a "mouse clicking" movement. I think i now have post traumatic sniping disorder. is there help out there?! As for using esnipe...that would be too boring for me...like having sex with ... oh forget it. uh, sorry to cut this short, but i have an auction to snipe!! byeeeeeeeee!!!!!!
posted on October 8, 2000 08:43:22 PM
In real auctions the bidders have additional time as each late bidder places their bids. Ebay should institute a practice of extending auctions for two minutes or so after each bid that is less than two minutes from the end of the auction. I will follow this one up. Real auction prices are generated this way and people are not as emotional about it if they know they have this limited protection. Sniping has caused prices on Ebay to rise and has caused a clear recognition of unfair bidding practices. You may say that "sniping is a rush", but, have you considered that, the reason it is a rush is because you are beating someone else in an unfair contest. It is human nature to get "a rush" from these circumstances (as bad as it seems). We should be ashamed but we brag about such things.
posted on October 8, 2000 08:48:13 PM
GEEEEZ whats with this post by Messenger4Him???>>>>>>Sniping has caused prices on Ebay to rise and has caused a clear recognition of unfair bidding practices. You may say that "sniping is a rush", but, have you considered that, the reason it is a rush is because you are beating someone else in an unfair contest.<<<<<UNFAIR?? Please don't make me laugh I have to go pee.
posted on October 8, 2000 09:13:47 PM...you are beating someone else in an unfair contest.
As best I can tell fron eBay's rules, the highest bid entered before the end of the auction wins, regardless of when it is entered- first minute of the auction or last. What part of this is unfair?
posted on October 8, 2000 11:48:17 PM
Sniping gets too much attention. It's only last minute bidding. You can only complain about ebay not allowing time extension. Sniping isn't the best strategy anyway. Someone who sets a proxy bid of their max has the best strategy and usually beats the sniper as the sniper runs out of time.
It's fun to snipe, and getting into a sniping battle can be even more enjoying as neither wants to overpay yet still wants to win, pushing the next person to the threshold.
posted on October 9, 2000 06:17:44 AM
There are two general times when it is NOT good to snipe:
1. The current/starting bid is at your maximum already, and every additional bid would push it even higher, so the longer you wait, the more likely someone else is to appear and bid up the amount. Striking first is a good strategy here, especially in the case of low-value items with high starting bids.
2. The item is likely to sell cheap due to being misdescribed, etc. Having a bid will tend to discourage sellers from ending the auction and relisting.
Otherwise, sniping protects you from shilling, reduces the amount of money you have tied up in bids (just in case something *even better* comes along!), and generally (at least based on the mass amount of opinions) results in paying less for an item. (note to sellers who think that sniping is good for them...feel free to explain your theory in light of all the testimonials about how sniping results in a lower selling price).
However, manual sniping is burdensome to anyone with a life outside of auctions, especially those who aren't on the west coast of the US, and sniping programs don't appear reliable enough yet; when they do, expect the amount of sniping to dramatically increase.
posted on October 9, 2000 08:04:15 AM
I see nothing wrong with sniping. Snipes are little more than sealed bids.
eBay can eliminate sniping with any number of options. Extend auctions for at least some interval of time after the last bid; allow sealed bids; enforce a rule that bids placed in the last 10 minutes of an auction don't get the benefit of the standard proxy process, but obligate the winning sniping bidder for the full amount of their bid, regardless of the amount of the 2nd high bidder.
posted on October 9, 2000 08:54:54 AM(note to sellers who think that sniping is good for them...feel free to explain your theory in light of all the testimonials about how sniping results in a lower selling price).
I'll take a shot at it.
Granting this:
Sniping... generally (at least based on the mass amount of opinions) results in paying less for an item.
and this:
More bids are preferrable to the seller (and result in a higher ending price) than less bids.
and this:
Many snipers (based on opinions posted here and other boards) would choose not to bid in an extended auction format.
I'd conclude that (for some auctions, anyway), snipers are indeed good for sellers. Not every auction has multiple bidders online, waiting to bid as the auction ends, and that one last-second bid has the potential to raise the final value substantially.
posted on October 9, 2000 09:03:20 AM
Mrpotatoehead:
I wasn't talking about whether an extended auction would be good or bad for sellers, which is what you seem to be discussing.
Your first few statements, before you digress to extended auctions, completely agree with me, so I'll conclude you also think sniping, under the current format, results in lower bids for sellers (versus early proxy bidding) and hence is NOT good for them (in general).
Of course, on any one auction, sniping can be good, but I was discussing overall auction results.
PS - don't be fooled, as so many sellers have been, by the "eye candy" of sniping - the dramatic rise of the bid amount in the last few seconds. Granted, bid amounts can "skyrocket" then...but so what? The question at hand is, whether the FINAL bid amount (the only one the seller cares about) would be higher, or lower, as a result of sniping. I claim lower, and so far the evidence seems to back that up.
posted on October 9, 2000 09:21:19 AMThe question at hand is, whether the FINAL bid amount (the only one the seller cares about) would be higher, or lower, as a result of sniping. I claim lower, and so far the evidence seems to back that up.
The answer to the question depends on whether or not the sniper, rather than making a last-second bid, makes an early proxy bid.
If he does, it seems likely that the final bid amount will be higher than if he makes a last-second bid.
If he doesn't bid at all, though, the final bid amount would be lower than if he did make that last-second bid.
There are several variables in the equation (# of bidders interested, # of early proxy bids, degree of interest of bidders, availability of similar items, # of bidders online at auction end, proper description and placement of listing, etc.) and without clearly defining them, it is easy to argue in support of one point of view or another. Every auction is different, and what is true for one is not necessarily true for all.
Actually, my argument is quite simple: thousands of people go through these discussions, claiming that sniping saves them money, for all the usual reasons, versus early proxy bidding.
Meanwhile, sellers simultaneously claim that sniping, versus early proxy bidding, is good for them.
On average, which group is right, and which is wrong? What do you think?
Of course, every auction is different, but that is irrelevant here. I'm talking about "on average", or "in general" if you'd prefer - does sniping, "on average" result in higher, or lower, final bid prices than if they used proxy bidding? If higher, then sellers *should* be happy about sniping, if lower (as is claimed by all these bidders), then they shouldn't.
posted on October 9, 2000 09:51:55 AMI claim lower, and so far the evidence seems to back that up.
Evidence??? What evidence? What exactly are you basing your "so called" evidence on? It certainly can't be based on your sales, as it seems you haven't bought OR sold anything on eBay in the past 8 months?
The question at hand is, whether the FINAL bid amount (the only one the seller cares about) would be higher, or lower, as a result of sniping.
Obviously higher, if the sniper didn't bid at all, the FINAL price would end up being lower.
I'm talking about "on average",or "in general" if you'd prefer - does sniping, "on average" result in higher, or lower, final bid prices than if they used proxy bidding? If higher, then sellers *should* be happy about sniping, if lower (as is claimed by all these bidders), then they shouldn't.
A snipe bid is a proxy bid, it just happens to be one placed in the final seconds. Would the final price be higher if it was placed earlier in the auction, who's to say? On average, I would say that *many* bidders simply wouldn't bid on an auction if they were forced to bid earlier, so I would assume it's fair to say that the last minute/second proxy bid does indeed results in higher ending prices.
As a seller I'm happy with every bid that's placed on my auctions, 'cause they all raise the FINAL ending price.
Do I dream about auctions that hit the Hot listings within the first day of being listed? Sure, who doesn't, but it's usually just a dream, kinda like your
"if every buyer bid early" hypothesis.
I'm basing this on the evidence that is sitting in front of YOUR very nose: all the peope who come along and, in fact, state bluntly that "sniping saves me money". Feel free to read this thread, and others, if you've missed these many, many posts along the way.
And, as always, you are confusing "sniping" with "sniper". Of course a SNIPER results in a HIGHER bid, versus no bid at all, but we are comparing PROXY BIDDING versus SNIPING.
And that is where your response to me breaks down completely.
Reread what I said - comparing buyers who claim that SNIPING saves them money (i.e., they pay LESS to the seller than if they had used early proxy bidding) with sellers who are "happy" with SNIPING. Apparently, buyers are happy with paying less to sellers, and these sellers are also "happy" with getting less, for some strange reason.
And you compound your confusion with such silly statements as "as a seller, I am happy with EVERY bid, since they all raise my bid amount". Well...duh. Of course they do. The question is...would EARLY PROXY BIDs make the FINAL bid higher?? Would you be HAPPIER with EARLY PROXY BIDs therefore?
Feel free to respond to what I actually wrote rather than what you think I did.
posted on October 9, 2000 10:23:26 AM
Captain ..... LOL, you never cease to amaze me with your "what if" scenarios.
I'm basing this on the evidence that is sitting in front of YOUR very nose: all the peope who come along and, in fact, state bluntly that "sniping saves me money".
Oh, yes, that's VERY strong evidence to support your claims. LOL
[i]Apparently, buyers are happy with paying less to sellers,and these sellers are also
"happy" with getting less,for some strange reason.[/i]
It's all about "perception" Captain, just because a bidder "perceives" last second bidding saves them $$$, doesn't make it so.
I think your biggest problem over the years, is in the items you sell, they just aren't the kind of things that involve BIG $$$ bidders, early proxy, or sniping.
Call it "eye candy" if you wish, but watching that $80 item finsh at double that amount, in the final seconds, is truly a sight to behold.
Would you be HAPPIER with EARLY PROXY BIDs therefore?
Well, duh, no kidding. Does that mean that late bids cause lower final ending prices, no, it does not.
Unless you have actual stats to back up your statements, which you don't, then it all amounts to nothing more than hot air & wishful thinking IMHO.
posted on October 9, 2000 10:29:17 AM
Before this gets too out of hand, let me just restate my thoughts, and then I'm off to do some other work, and let others debate the subject.
Observation 1: Many, many buyers have come along and stated bluntly "I used to do proxy bidding, but now I've CHOSEN to do sniping, because it saves me money". And the reasons are clear: doesn't signal others, no chance for rebids by competitors, etc.
Opinion 1: I believe this mass of "evidence"...sniping does seem to be a way to pay a seller less for an item. I guess I could be wrong..but then so are many, many others (and I've rarely, if ever, seen anyone claim the opposite - that, on average, sniping raises the final bid versus using proxy bidding).
Note 1: yes, each auction is different..and for any given auction, and even for a particular seller, sniping *could* result in buyers paying more..but I'm referring to the "long run average", over all the auctions on ebay.
Observation 2: A number of sellers have come along and made one of two similar statements: 1) "sniping is good for sellers" or 2) "I don't care when a bid is made, early or late, same thing".
Opinion 2: If Opinion 1 is right, then these sellers are foolish, presuming, of course, they want to have a higher final bid than lower. Of course, if their goal is a spectacular rise in the bid price in the final seconds, then sniping, by all means, is "good" for them.
Note 2: Many people confuse "sniping" with "snipers". All bids, either early or late, is always good for a seller, since it has to raise the bid price. We are discussing here the *strategy* of bidding later versus early. And we are not talking about extended auctions or any other changes to the ebay bidding rules.
I am still looking for someone who can logically relate "happy" sellers who are getting less for their items as a result of buyers who have CHOSEN to bid late rather than early.
By the way, just to diffuse yet another confusion often employed by people such as Reddeer, I completely support the right of people to snipe, don't think it is "wrong", in fact use it myself at times.
I just think that sniping, as a bidding technique, is good for buyers, and bad for sellers, where "good" and "bad" are measured in how much the final bid price is - buyers want to pay less in my "dreamworld", and sellers want to get more.
And that's all the bandwith on this topic I'll contribute in this thread..
posted on October 9, 2000 10:30:08 AMReddeer seems confused by this as well, since he keeps talking about being "forced" to bid early, or some such nonsense. No one is talking about that.
Perhaps you aren't, but if you read ALL of the posts on this thread, AE was indeed mentioned.
No confusion here Captain, I've read your posts on this subject long enough to know where you're coming from, and it's a never ending "what method of bidding makes sellers more $$$".
posted on October 9, 2000 10:50:43 AM
As a seller, I get a big buzz out of watching my items being sniped at the end of the auction. As a buyer, I don't do it often but when I do, I let my husband take over. He's the Snipe King. He sits in front of the computer watching the second hand on his watch and mentally calculating just when to push the enter key. It's hilarious to watch. And I couldn't exist without my Watch List.
posted on October 9, 2000 12:28:26 PMHowever, we are comparing two situations: one where a person bids early, and one where a person bids later, not one where a person doesn't bid at all.
We were, but my last question to you introduced that third situation: where a person bids late or not at all.
You've indicated that you're using the evidence of all the peope who come along and, in fact, state bluntly that "sniping saves me money" in your argument that late bidding results in lower prices. Since you've noted those posts, I'm sure you must have seen the posts from those who have said that if they can't bid late (snipe), they won't bid at all, and I'm using that evidence in my argument.
This means that in the case of the auction situation I described, a snipe bid would result in a higher price than otherwise.
Here are three possible scenarios for the end of an auction:
1) No bidders present and bidding in the last minute.
2) One bidder present and bidding in the last minute.
3) More than one bidder present and bidding in the last minute.
Note that I am considering a snipe bid to be one made with less than a minute remaining in the auction for the sake of this discussion.
Scenario 1 is a moot point- there is nobody present to bid, and the final value is not going to change. Scenario 2 would result in a higher final value, since there is an additional bid made, but no other bidders present to try to counter it with a higher bid. Scenario 3 could result in a lower than optimum (from the seller's point of view) final value, in the event the auction ended before all the bidders had entered their maximum bid. Of course, it is always possible that even with multiple bidders present at the end, each has had the chance to make their highest bid, and even given the opportunity, would not raise their bid further.
The next question is: What percentage of the total number of auctions on eBay do each scenario comprise? Based on my (admittedly limited) research (mostly with my own auctions), I'd say that the figures would be something like this:
Scenario 1: 82%
Scenario 2: 15%
Scenario 3: 3%
(Disclaimer: These are the results I have observed- your mileage may vary)
Considering the above, for every one auction that may be adversely affected by snipe bidding, there are five that have their final values increased. Of course, your results would most definitely be affected by the type of items you sell- the scarcer and more desirable your items, the more likely it is you could have multiple bidders present as the auction ends.
I would think it goes without saying, but I'm sure there isn't a seller on eBay who wouldn't want to have all bidders make their bids as early and as high as possible. As desirable as that would be, the reality is there is no way to make all bidders use this technique. Like it or not, some of them are going to snipe.
Conclusion: As a bidder, I believe I pay less by sniping (than I would had I made an early proxy bid) because I don't give other bidders an opportunity to bump my proxy to its limit. As a seller, I believe snipe bids help me more than hurt, because I have far more auctions in which there is only one bidder present at the end than ones in which there are multiple bidders who may not have a chance to make their highest bid.
How's that for having your cake and eating it, too?
posted on October 9, 2000 01:07:31 PM
Very well said mrpotatoheadd & I myself am in 1,000% agreement w/your way of thinking as well on this subject! But cannot help but add my 2 more cents which may be repeating others but here goes anyway
In a nutshell for me as a Snipe Bidder & not ashamed to be one, I "believe" in general I do end up paying less then I would by snipe bidding an auction---- vs--proxy bidding on an auction.
For one simple reason (in my mind anyway) Here is an example of why I state the above and YES it's all hypothetical but I have seen it occur time & again for me.
Lets say I just located an item on Ebay that I'd like to have and
item that I just located currently has No Bids placed and there are 3 days to go before the close-----if I was to Proxy bid immediately-theres a good chance ANOTHER EBAYER MAY SAY hey I WANT THAT TOO! So then they place a bid, which for example purposes I'll just say they bumped my bid but they we're outbid--then still wanting it the other ebayer places a second bid in hopes of becoming high bidder---what
they now have just done is bumped my Proxy bid even higher again--also now showing this item with 3 bids placed!!!
Now had I held off & waited, theres a strong "chance" this other Ebayer may consider the fact that this item has no bids-sooooo-must not be too desirable by others so they see no reason to bid either which (some do think like that--I have a friend who does anyway!) just sends them on there merry ol' way--leaving this item alone & still w/no bids
Now my snipe bid is in place and whammo---I won--no one else wanted but me in last 10 seconds---Certainly any item highly desirable & unique would not go this way--but common items where there are more then one of same listed on Ebay--has worked that way for me. How many times have you passed on cliking on an auction thats ready to close because you see no bids placed---VS---how many times have you cliked on an auction ready to close cuz WoW theres 24 bids and you want to see what it is???
Even I have done that and consider myself "semi-normal"
Like I said this is a very hypothetical and speculative situation at best---and I certainly do not claim to know whats running through the minds of others--- but for me as I stated before-- I won what I wanted which was my intended goal to begin with.
When its a highly desirable item--and I REALLY REALLY REALLY want it---I """sometimes""" place my Snipe Bid @ ONE MILLION DOLLARS---knowing full well theres not too many kooks like me (LOL) willing to do that---so bottom line is I will still win the item in the end
As a seller, I don't really care how bids come--whether Proxy or Snipe---as long as item sells that is what I want!! If I don't
sell, then I consider re-listing & dropping price down anyway--object for me is to get item outta my home--and into yours, and if I list item @ $19.00 w/no reserve and item only gets one bid---I'm still quite Happy to say BYE BYE to item your getting shipped to your new home
Which once again was my original intentions when I listed the item
PS: I still place Proxy bids too---usually when I don't care whether I win the item or not...
[ edited by getkicksonrte66 on Oct 9, 2000 01:28 PM ]
posted on October 10, 2000 10:44:12 AMStantman I feel your pain, that happened to me in a catagory I collect in. Enough to make you weep. The auctions were separated by 6 seconds!!!!
I had my atomic clock, my multiple windows...oh the pain.
Marker bids are like proxies becasue you are creating a higher threshold for other bidders that you need to outbid. Watch Feature=Heaven.
Sometimes I just put a bid on knowing I haven't got a chance, just to see what is up.
Am I shilling? I don't think so, I just like to be in the mix if some bidder goes belly up and maybe I get an email with a tasty offer.
Also there are a few other bidders who follow my ID for some reason and miraculously appear when I bid early. Sometimes I go see what they are buying, just watching, sometimes grabbing it out from under them. Just a reminder that I am the little shark that bites.
Some auctions you can watch but if Bidder X shows up you might as well go home, forget the snipe...unless you have stones of steel and reeeeeeeeeally want it, because she'll pay trippple. All you can do is watch and wonder.
The annals of Snipedom.
Deconstruct it all you like, wax on about percentages, all will be revealed in the last 3 seconds.
posted on October 11, 2000 11:42:24 AM
I always snipe on items that I collect. I don't actually snipe, I can't take the stress, always end up bidding 2 or 3 minutes early. Send all info to my brother who loves to snipe and can sit waiting for the last 3 or 4 seconds. On items that I would like but don't have to have, I bid as soon as I see them. Don't do it to save money, always bid 25 to 30 dollars over what the current bid is, but to give myself the best chance of winning the item.
posted on October 11, 2000 01:42:16 PM
I actually sent the link for e-snipe to someone bidding on prism candle holders I have listed today! She e-mailed asking if I would end the auction and sell them to her as she can only bid from work and the auction closes after she leaves... I explained that I had an obligation to the other bidders and suggested she try it. For people who only have access from work, e-snipe can be a fantastic tool!
