posted on August 28, 2005 04:50:14 PM
The stock market will see it's biggest drop since 9/11. 250+ points on monday only. Then to be followed by another 200 points by the end of the week.
After trying to come from 9/11, bush's war and oil prices have again taken your 401 back down to a 201.
Most 401K's in the US are dead end funds going nowhere for years!
While bush did not design the weather, somehow he still will profit from it. While most American's will pay throught the stock market and higher services.
posted on August 29, 2005 06:33:32 PM
cmsspu, many posters on this board have pointed out thousands of times how the middle and working class are taking a big beating in America. Bush and the Republican controlled Houses are waging a class war against its own citizens.
Now finally the majority of Americans are starting to wake-up to the Republican LIE.
Thanks for your post but if you have been reading this board you have noticed nothing will change here. Lets hope people like you will spend some time here EXPOSING THE REPUBLICAN LIE. Their is only a hand full of republicans here and their LIES have already been EXPOSED.
Your real work comes outside this board. To save the middle and working class you and other like minded people need to get every vote they can get to overturn the republican control of the Senate and Congress in the 2006 Elections.
The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer under Bush and the republican controlled houses.
posted on August 30, 2005 04:53:05 AM
desqirrel, I don't buy stock because I am not stupid. You might want to look at gold and dump some stock while the dumping is good. Interest rates up,inflation up,deficit up,raw material up,energy cost up,medical cost up,insurance cost up,war cost up with no end in sight. Stocks don't look good to me.
Gold is a commodity that has been bought,sold or traded any place in the World since the beginning of time. The stocks you have are made of paper their value is based on mostly theory and projections.
Unlike you I also vote for the majority and back bone of this country. I vote for the middle and working class. Unlike you my vote is not self-serving,blinded by or motivated by GREED.
cmaapu, it looks to me like desquirrel is just another Paper Tiger that has very little real value and is confused about what real values are.
posted on August 30, 2005 07:31:50 AM
Get used to it.
Time's, they are a changing.
This may be for the good. Oil may actually “out price itself” Coal may, again look like a good substitute. Maybe now we can start drilling for oil in the sacred areas the tree huggers have tried to SAVE. Save from what??? Maybe we’ll have more spending on alternative fuel sources, start building new and safer Nuclear energy facilities. Maybe were on the edge of the next generation of energy.
Whatever happens, remember this. There’s little or nothing you can do about.
Oh, now some bad news. China will be the biggest user of carbon based fuels in the next couple years. They can afford to buy it …no matter what the price. There technology will be so behind that most of the fuel will be wasted. Pollution will triple or worst in the next 5 years.
posted on August 30, 2005 07:41:33 AM
Funny, my broker moved a lot of my stuff into gold stocks like Agnico and Harmony months ago. He must know George Bush. I have to ask him.
posted on August 30, 2005 11:07:07 AM
I will admit to knowing next to nothing about the stock market. I moved my 401k out of it long ago when I lost so much of it. However, an increase in the cost of fuel means an increase in the cost of durable goods, which in turn means a decrease in consumer spending. How can that not affect the stock market in an adverse way?
posted on August 30, 2005 11:20:54 AM
Cheryl - it will, but there are going to be companies that are going to do well from this also. Building suppliers, lumber companies, etc. Companies that deal with industrial cleanup, salvage, etc. Think of of everything that you would need to recover if your home flooded and the kind of companies that supply those items and services. For the short run, companies that manufacture and sell generators and sump pumps are going to see HUGE numbers.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
[ edited by fenix03 on Aug 30, 2005 11:22 AM ]
posted on August 30, 2005 11:28:11 AM
The stock market is not a "thing", it is a collection of "things". Just like there are hundreds of ways to bet on the Superbowl (who scores first, half time points, etc, etc,) there are many, many ways to invest.
401ks are limited because you don't have absolute control. But you have enough choices to still be FAR ahead of any other investment. At the time of the last major stock "equailization" where Cheryl lost so much, my broker called me and said he thought the rollercoaster was nearing the top. I moved 75% of my 401k to Bonds. When the stock prices fell, Bonds were paying double digits. After a few months, I moved everything back into stocks at the now lower price: ie my 401K dollars now bought more.
Not all things go down. As our mentally frail compadres have noted, gold, silver, and other commodities are hopping.
posted on August 30, 2005 11:49:33 AM
Des - you might want to ask you broker about Casino supply companies. The Casino companies are going to take a hit from the fact that all of the barge casinos were taken out but they are going to be rebuilt and have to be restocked.
BTW - Anyone want to take bets on the increase of illegal immigration? About two month from now the biggest shortage in this country is going to be in the construction labor market.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on August 30, 2005 12:07:04 PM
And with oil continuing to go up and down....but mostly up....this solution might just be a more likely candidate to be passed.
www.sfgate.com
ARCTIC OIL
Oil is the lifeblood of Alaska, with residents ready to drill
Inhabitants of the Last Frontier see economic opportunity -- and with Bush and the Republicans in power, timing is right
- Zachary Coile,
Chronicle Staff Writer
Monday, August 29, 2005
Fairbanks, Alaska -- When Alaska Gov. Frank Murkowski took office in 2003 facing a $1 billion budget deficit, he made clear how he would pull this resource-rich state out of its fiscal crisis.
"What is our plan for increasing revenue?" Murkowski said in his first address to the state Legislature. "In a single word -- oil."
The newly elected Republican governor said Alaska needed to drill in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and elsewhere to make up for declining revenues from Prudhoe Bay, with oil flowing at only half-capacity through the trans-Alaska pipeline.
This fall, Murkowski and other Alaskan officials are expected to get their wish: Congress appears likely to approve a budget bill that would allow drilling on the 1.5 million-acre coastal plain of the refuge.
While environmentalists have pledged to fight it, budget bills can't be filibustered and an enlarged Republican majority in the U.S. Senate has given proponents confidence it will pass this year.
In Congress, the issue has been cast by supporters as an effort to lessen the United States' reliance on foreign oil. The debate pits the nation's energy needs against protection of one of America's last truly wild places.
But in Alaska, what's driving the campaign to drill in the refuge is the state's dependence on oil for its economic survival, and its fears of what will happen as the state's largest oil field at Prudhoe Bay taps out.
"Oil is the thing that keeps us going in Alaska," explained Jeffrey John, 49, a Gwich'in tribal member from Fort Yukon, who has spent years working pipeline repair jobs on the North Slope.
"We need oil to keep everything running -- to keep the planes running, to keep businesses running in the state of Alaska," he said. "If we don't do that, our economy will go down, and we'll have a hard time getting jobs."
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 30, 2005 12:32:26 PM
desquirrel, some people can and will make or lose money while buying and holding Gold not Gold stocks. Time and again people have lost 100% of their money buying stocks.
For the last 4 years in a row the number of Americans at or below the poverty level has increased,wages have decreased,benefits have decreased,people without health insurance has increased,the price of heating oil and natural gas has doubled. If your happy with your personal standard of living then by all means keep voting for a republican controlled Senate and Congress in the 2006 Elections. That way you will sure to get more of the same.
posted on August 30, 2005 03:10:29 PM
Linda_K is right the Dow went down around $50 bucks today to a low of $10,412.
I am sure to a person like Linda_K where money is so very important. She must have some index running on her 3 computers 24/7.
I don't watch the Dow very much but wasn't it around $10,600 something a short time ago? I am sure if I am wrong Linda_K will correct me.
Lets all watch the Dow average for a week from now. With the Terrible storm and outlandish energy cost. It will be interesting to see how well the Dow stands up.
We have all seen lots of people go 100% broke buying and selling stocks. Just in the last couple years we have seen lots of people lose everything they have through the stock market.
Can anyone show me where anyone went 100% broke holding the metal Gold. I am sure it must have happened I just don't know when and how?
posted on August 30, 2005 04:05:49 PM
Sure the hurricane and all the damage, and now with Marshall law in N.O. is going to have it's effect on the NYSE. Everybody's used to those things bringing the numbers down.
But you can't blame this one on the President....no matter how hard you try or might like to do.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
posted on August 30, 2005 05:23:51 PM
oh yes they can Linda,very easily..watch them LOL
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Golfer:Stop checking your watch all the time,its too much of a distraction.
Caddy:Its not a watch, its a compass
posted on August 30, 2005 05:58:29 PM
" Can anyone show me where anyone went 100% broke holding the metal Gold."
My roommate during the big gas crisis collected Kruegerands. He had a bunch of them he bought for whatever the gold rate was (cheap). During the crisis they were going for $1100 or even higher. I told him SELL. If people were selling for $1100 people were buying for $1100. A year or 2 later of course, what were they? $100?
We don't have to try to figure out the best investment. That has already been done. There has NEVER been a period in history when any investment has beaten stock.
posted on August 30, 2005 07:38:55 PM
desquirrel, First off for someone that likes to believe they are smart. For a person that calls other people "mentally frail" you are "mentally frail" about the metal Gold.
First off your friend wasn't investing in the metal Gold he/she was investing in Gold coins. You know like the Gold Coins the republican Gov. of Ohio was dealing in using tax payers money.
Second, please send me all the 1oz. SOUTH AFRICAN KRUGERRANDS you can get your hands on for $100.00. Today KRUGERRANDS are selling for $405.00.
Now please get your facts straight. Then tell me again when and where a person has lost 100% of their investment buying the metal Gold. Like people who have lost 100% buying into stock market.
posted on August 30, 2005 07:53:46 PM
Krugerrands were not treated as "gold coins". They were valued for their weight in gold. One of the few portable precious metals with an assigned and verified value. No assaying or certification required and worth nothing more than the gold.
Sorry, I don't know anybody who has lost "100%" in the stock market. It would have to be an absolute fool doing his own daytrading.
In my analogy the person who bought those $1200 Krugerrands in 197X would now be down 66%. Gee, I wonder what the average stock portfolio would be after 30 years????
posted on August 31, 2005 04:58:37 AM
NEW YORK (Reuters) - The U.S.
Department of Energy will approve a request for a loan of oil from the country's Strategic Petroleum Reserve later on Wednesday, to offset oil production losses out of the Gulf of Mexico due to Hurricane Katrina, a spokesman said.
The price of U.S. crude sank quickly below $70 after the government said it would tap the reserve.
- - - - -
Doesn't it seem odd that the price dropped below $70 so quickly after the announcement? I'm sorry, but this entire thing is nothing more than gouging. Does anyone remember the gouging after 9/11? IMO, this is no different. The gas station down the road from me has not had a new delivery of gasoline since last Monday (the 22nd). However, they saw fit to raise the price .25 per gallon anyway. A friend of mine confronted the gas station manager about it. She asked why he raised the price when it was the same gasoline from last week? He simply turned and walked away without answering her question.
Until we change our driving habits, nothing is going to change. They have to feel it in their wallets. To the oil companies, we are invisible consumers. We have changed our driving habits. We no longer take unnecessary trips. If we go shopping, we plan it out by taking the shortest route and getting everything we may need for the week. If I forgot anything, I walk to the drug store, which is only 1/2 mile away.
posted on August 31, 2005 05:42:39 AMHowever, they saw fit to raise the price .25 per gallon anyway. A friend of mine confronted the gas station manager about it.
Cheryl, I saw something on the news that said, the gas stations profits are only pennies on the dollar to begin with, and many have lost alot of money with all the drive-offs. ?
I do the same thing with driving now too. Try to get a few things done in one shot and now doing the extra work of configuring a store or a stop near a stop that I must go to. But I think unless they come up with affordable alternatives to oil, that is one thing the consumer will never have the edge over the supplier for.
posted on August 31, 2005 07:16:44 AM
Cheryl - crude prices are based on "bidding" and the bidding price is dependent on supply. Since there an increase in supply, the bid price goes down. Crude prices are not really susecptible to gouging. Gas prices are a whole nother matter.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on August 31, 2005 08:05:00 AM
Speaking of supply:
Over the most recent 4-week period, crude oil inputs to refineries (refinery runs) are down over 300,000 barrels per day from the same period a year ago. This, while crude oil imports over the same 4-week period are up over 300,000 barrels per day from year-ago levels! It appears that refiners are importing crude oil, but putting it in inventories rather than running it through their refineries at rates that might be expected. As the chart below shows, there is clearly economic incentive for refiners to be running significantly higher quantities, as refinery margins for gasoline and diesel fuel (the difference between the spot price of these products and the price of WTI crude oil) are relatively high. This would imply that one of the reasons inventories are increasing substantially relative to normal patterns is that refineries are having more problems than may be known. As a result, we see an increase in crude oil inventories, even as strong product demand (gasoline demand over the most recent 4-week period is up 1.6 percent over the comparable year-ago period, while distillate fuel is up 4.3 percent) is helping to keep prices high.
posted on August 31, 2005 08:12:03 AM
Red - if you want a clear example of just how bad our refinery issues are... The Saudis offered to build us a new one.
Maybe our government will get smart and turn one of the soon to be closed military bases into a refinery location.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on August 31, 2005 09:01:36 AM
Why do you think I suggested military bases. federal land and not much can be done to stop them.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
posted on September 3, 2005 09:21:19 AM
Another incorrect prediction cmsspu made........
cmsspu - posted on August 28, 2005 04:50:14 PM
The stock market will see it's biggest drop since 9/11. 250+ points on monday only. Then to be followed by another 200 points by the end of the week.
Please note peepa, on Monday, when cmsspu made his/her prediction, the market actually
WENT UP 65 points.....not down 250.
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Time: 11:06 AM,Saturday, September 3, 2005
Wall Street Ends Week With Gains Despite Friday Losses
By Randy Hall
CNSNews.com Staff Writer/Editor
September 02, 2005
(CNSNews.com) - Even though oil prices slid and victims of Hurricane Katrina began receiving aid, all three major U.S. markets lost ground in Friday trading -- but Wall Street still managed to hold onto some of the gains made the week before Labor Day.
The Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 12.26 points to 10,447.37, up 50.08 points over the past five days. The Nasdaq Composite index lost 6.83 points to 2,141.07, up 20.30 points since last Friday, and the Standard & Poor's 500 index declined 3.57 points to 1,218.02, up 12.92 points for the week.
Shaping investors' attitudes in the final session before the three-day weekend was the announcement that the International Energy Agency would ask its member nations to release oil from their reserves into the world market.
The request was made because Hurricane Katrina had shut down 90 percent of U.S. oil production in the Gulf of Mexico. As a result, a barrel of light crude fell by $1.57 to $67.90 on the New York Mercantile Exchange, hopefully easing the sharp increases gas prices have undergone this week.
Also, truck caravans began arriving with disaster aid for the victims of the hurricane as units from the National Guard and the American military started clamping down on looting in areas along the Gulf Coast.
Finally, companies across the nation added 169,000 jobs in August, driving unemployment down slightly from July's rate of 5 percent, according to a report on the nation's economy released Friday by the U.S. Labor Department. Now at 4.9
"You're seeing a little bit of relief in the energy patch," John Caldwell, chief investment strategist at McDonald Financial Group of Cleveland, told the Associated Press.
However, concerns about the long-term economic effects of Katrina and profit-taking before the holiday weekend dragged Wall Street down in the final hours of trading.
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So, ONCE AGAIN.....no matter what the 'doom and gloom' club here keep HOPING for.....the sky is NOT falling.
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"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Sep 3, 2005 09:24 AM ]
[ edited by Linda_K on Sep 3, 2005 09:49 AM ]
posted on September 3, 2005 09:43:57 AMUnemployment Drops to Lowest Rate in Four Years
By Randy Hall
CNSNews.com Staff Writer/Editor
September 02, 2005
(CNSNews.com) - In a week dominated by reports on Hurricane Katrina, the government had a bit of good news for workers entering the Labor Day weekend when it announced that the nation's unemployment declined to 4.9 percent in August, its lowest rate since the month before 9/11.
Companies across the nation added 169,000 jobs in August, driving unemployment down slightly from July's rate of 5 percent, according to a report on the nation's economy released Friday by the U.S. Labor Department.
In addition, payroll gains were revised upward for the previous two months. In July, employers added 242,000 jobs, an improvement from the government's initial estimate of 207,000 net job gains. And for June, 175,000 jobs were added, up from a previous estimate of a 166,000 jobs gain.
Nevertheless, the increase of 169,000 for August was less than the 190,000 new jobs some economists had forecast, though analysts had predicted that unemployment would hold steady at 5 percent.
Leading in job growth were education and health services, which added 43,000 new positions in August. The leisure and hospitality industry grew by 34,000 jobs, and professional and business services increased by 29,000 jobs.
Construction companies boosted payrolls by 25,000, financial companies added 15,000 employees, and retailers grew by about 12,000 during the final month of summer.
However, manufacturers lost jobs for the third straight month. In August, factories eliminated 14,000 jobs, much of which was due to a decrease in production by auto makers.
Still, U.S. Secretary of Labor Elaine L. Chao hailed the report as a sign of an economy that has gained strength for the past 27 straight months.
"Net job growth has averaged about 194,000 per month, which has been above forecasts," Chao said. "It is also significant that the unemployment rate fell last month while the labor force participation rate rose, meaning a higher percentage of the population is working.
"Our country is facing the challenge of Hurricane Katrina from a position of economic strength," she added, noting that the figures don't reflect the impact of Katrina because the employment information was collected before the storm hit last Monday.
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"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
