posted on October 26, 2000 03:27:27 PM
Shortage? What shortage? According to friends I have in Europe and some of the stores I have talked to here, Playstation 2's will be coming in regularly right through Christmas. The shortage was only in the first shipment. It's still 2 months 'til Christmas! To me this is all hype made to create a panic to get people into the stores - a big media story! Mine's on order. If it comes before Christmas, great. If not, my son will get something else. As for those of you selling it at a grossly inflated price - shame on you. And shame on the parents who think they need to spend this kind of money to keep their children happy. Glad I don't have those children.
posted on October 26, 2000 03:30:20 PM
Is this thread for real??
I'm 33, so not really all that old, and I grew up in a middle class suburban home. If I had *ever* suggested that my family purchase me a toy costing several hundred dollars, my parents would have laughed until they cried. If I had tried the "everyone else has one, I'm so deprived" routine, they would have laughed some more---it didn't work on their parents, it didn't work on mine, and when I have kids it won't work on them either. If I HAD to have an item like this (? the closest I can remember is Breyer horses which cost 25 or 30 bucks and which I babysat every weekend to purchase)I think they would have had me earn it one quarter at a time. I'm sure my interest would have waned long before I had earned even a tenth of the cost of these things. And that way, the idea of "work=spending money" would be reinforced not "i'm so cute and you love me so much=expensive toys".
When I graduated from college my parents gave me a check for 500 dollars---and I thought that was the most exciting thing ever. By then I came to appreciate what it represented. Believe me, I whined and complained about my parents not giving lavish, mortgage-the-house christmas gifts in my earlier years but it made me the responsible and thrifty adult I am now. I cannot believe, simply cannot believe, anyone would buy a child a gift costing that much.
posted on October 26, 2000 03:44:27 PMI don't believe it is abdicating responsibilty because as a parent you decide that you want to give your child something that they are wishing for....that is not abdicating anything. It's a system of weights and balances
I didn't say it was necessarily so, but I do believe that the choice to give should be made by the adult, and "no" is sometimes an appropriate answer.
..but I'm sure your mother designed all your clothes from scratch too---and chewed the leather for your shoes.
Excuse me? Are you being sarcastic? Whether or not you choose to believe it, when I was a kid, many of my friends wore homemade clothes, too. I only related that detail because of your comment
---they are brand savy---and the pressure they get from thier friends to have the right shoes or clothes--
to show that I understood what you were saying about things being different today.
Oh... and no, she didn't chew the leather for our shoes.
posted on October 26, 2000 03:47:40 PMmrpotatohead, You're assuming that all parents are in a position financially to "abdicate their responsibility."
The reality is that speculators and large-volume toy scalpers are in no small measure responsible for taking a previously-attainable toy that retailed for, say, $30, and through hoarding and other manipulations of the marketplace, inflating the price to $75 or $100.
So, for low-income families, a toy that once was a stretch -- but attainable -- is now out of the question.
Such families don't have the luxury of "copping out," as you say.
BTW, this scenario was reality for innumerable families last year. Many children in my daughter's class went without their coveted Furby because speculators wanted to make a fast buck.
posted on October 26, 2000 04:00:18 PM
My sibling and I also grew up in a home where mom made a lot of our clothing. In the 60's it was much more reasonable to sew. The last time I made something, a robe for my husband, I would have been miles ahead in price by buying one ready made. The same went 5 years ago when I made a dress for myself to wear to my brother's wedding. I got exactly what I wanted, but I didn't save anything.
We clothed our kids when they were younger by shopping resale shops and garage sales. Doing that now is next to impossible. So, they kids get the new clothes, and I wear the resale stuff.
As far as Disney Land goes, we've never been, and have no plans to go. 4 years ago, we gave the kids a choice, Disney, or Toronto to see Phantom. They picked Phantom hands down. It was the most pricy vacation we ever did, 2 nights at the Falls and 2 in Toronto, and 1 night in Erie for the beach, but it was a grand time for all. A vacation we will all remember, and well worth every penny spent, about 1k if I remember correctly.
posted on October 26, 2000 04:08:09 PM
Meya, good point. I wouldn't dress my dog in anything I've sewn, but I asked my mother to make my daughter's Halloween costume last year. She made all of our costumes growing up, and I thought it would be neat to continue the tradition.
That was the most expensive costume I ever paid for!! The pattern, yardage and notions were nearly $50!! And, no, we didn't pick out the most expensive fabrics, either.
posted on October 26, 2000 04:13:04 PM
Fountianhouse: [i]Frankly, I consider toy scalpers to be the bottom feeders of christmas marketing. (I'm not referring to
you, boysmommy3.)[/i]
Well, then who are you referring to? Me? Because I sell those hot toys, I stand in line at 4am to get them. That is how I make my living.
posted on October 26, 2000 04:15:31 PM
fountainhouse-
You're assuming that all parents are in a position financially to "abdicate their responsibility."
If you think that is what I am assuming, then I must not have explained myself very well. Unless your dad is Bill Gates, there will always be a point past which a parent has no reasonable expectation of being able to fulfill a child's wants.
Call me crazy, but I have always been of the opinion that it is the job of a parent to teach the difference between a "want" and a "need" (at least, that was a responsibility my parents always seemed to accept, as much as I may not have liked it).
posted on October 26, 2000 04:22:41 PM
Teaching the difference between Wants and Needs doesn't necessarily mean that you never supply the Wants. It is the kids who understand the difference that show the proper appreciation when they receive a Want.
But I still don't agree with spending twice to three times the normal cost of an item to satisfy that Want. Case in point, the Nintendo 64's. We also waited until the stores were stocked well and the price had gone back down. I wouldn't have paid someone who was reselling them at a high markup, nor would I have resold one of them myself to make a profit.
Selling those hard to find, one of a kind items is one thing. Joining in the frenzy brought on by the retail machine and trying to cash in on it is a whole 'nother thing entirely. I still find it despicable.
posted on October 26, 2000 04:40:25 PM
You know, everyone else posts their opinions here all the time. No one forces anyone else to agree. That is my opinion, which I decided to voice. No one must feel compelled to agree.
If anyone disagrees, fine, no biggy. If my opinion bothers anyone, then they should take a look at their conscience. A clear one won't be bothered by someone's opposing opinion.
posted on October 26, 2000 04:47:19 PM
I've been noticing some of these posts, and I feel kinda offended.
I posted earlier I spent nearly $900 to import one PS2 from Japan when it came out there.
Let me say, I was lucky enough to import one, and not stupid enough to pay a $3000 plane ticket to wait in Freezing Rain to get one unit.
Does this make me any less different?
I know of a few sources who paid in excess of $1000 to get one PS2 from Japan. And a few Germany Folk took a $10,000 Plane ride to be the first Foreigners to get a PS2.
Am I an idiot to pay early and hefty?
Probably.
Am I a chavunist pig who wants the latest technology that we don't have here in the US and can't get for years and years?
Yes.
And as I stated before, I won't give up my prize....I'm too busy watching Monty Python and the Holy Grail on DVD on my PS2.
PS: Oh, and there was a time where the US Customs Service banned the importation of PS2 from Japan when it was found out that certain components could be used (or are being used) in missle Guidance Systems.
:\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
posted on October 26, 2000 04:50:00 PM
MY conscience is just fine, but thanks for your concern.
You find the way I make my living "despicable". Yet, is it my fault that you have made decisions in your life that make it impossible for you to give your kids everything they want?
Is it my fault that there are parents that don't know how to limit their children's demands?
Also, I wonder if you are aware that most of my buyers are adults buying for themselves. Where are the crys for the adults who can't fufill their every litle whim?
posted on October 26, 2000 05:05:45 PM
Somehow you've misunderstood. I don't regret for one minute choices we make with our kids. Where did I say anything about not being able to give my kids anything they want? No person, child or adult should always have everything they want. That's not reasonable at all. My kids demands for the most part are reasonable.
You've really taken much of what I have said, and applied it where I didn't mean it to be applied.
What I find despicable is the buying and reselling the types of items this thread is about. Items that are marketed in limited amounts, especially when new to the market. People who buy them up strictly for the reason of reselling at 3 times the normal value, in the name of making a profit.
Yes, people will pay the price, and yes, I'm sure some are adults buying for themselves. This doesn't make it right.
If your conscience is clear, why are you protesting so much? Does it matter so much to you that I disagree? Why should it? It's just my opinion after all. Those who agree won't buy or sell this way. Those who disagree will. So, knock yourself out. Ya know?
posted on October 26, 2000 05:05:54 PM
I can't help but wonder why somebody who finds a $2 item at a garage sale, and gets $100 (50x purchase price) for it on eBay receives a hearty round of applause whenever the "Garage Sale Success" threads run, but when somebody pays $300 (full retail) for something and sells it for $900 (3x markup), it is considered despicable.
Now, I'm not saying you're (you in general- not any particular person) not allowed to have this opinion, but it seems (IMHO) somewhat inconsistent.
edited to add...
My post isn't directed at you, personally, meya- yours wasn't there when I started typing.
[ edited by mrpotatoheadd on Oct 26, 2000 05:11 PM ]
posted on October 26, 2000 05:13:50 PM
Oh I don't know, I don't think it is the same thing. For the most part, Garage Sale finds tend to be either hard to find, or one of kinds, especially those that resell high. Granted, there are always going to be those items that you "know" will do well, but mostly you are gambling.
The products discussed here are not the same thing at all. In normal circumstances, they are widely available, except when the items are released in small quanities due to the marketing strategy to drive up the "want factor".
posted on October 26, 2000 05:26:30 PM...due to the marketing strategy to drive up the "want factor".
Isn't that the goal of marketing- to drive up the "want factor"? Why wouldn't anybody (individual seller or giant corporation) want their product to be seen to be as desirable as possible?
posted on October 26, 2000 05:59:27 PM
I'm with mrpotatoheadd, except that I'll add that this is no different from shopping at Salvation Army or GoodWill and then turning around and selling it on eBay or any other auction site. Do you consider that some poor person, who can't afford things, is probably missing out on the chance to find that *good* outfit, that they were possibly going to wear to a job interview........ but little did they know that you were in there just 10 minutes before and snapped that outfit up for $5.00 so you could turn around and sell it for $50.
Or how about the poor person who shops there for toys for their children .. who's birthday or christmas is right around the corner? This could be all they can afford. Will they be able to get that toy that you spotted and KNEW that you could sell online for big $$?
Yup, I find this dispicable.. after all the truely NEEDY won't be able to go for that job interview or buy a present for their child, unless they buy online.
lotsafuzz, boysmommy3, you do what you need to.. I personally don't see who you're hurting.
As far as children go? Perhaps if there were more 'control' over children.. and parents didn't give into a child's every wanton desire ~ whether it be toys, games, designer clothing, designer shoes, etc~ then there wouldn't be so many spoiled, undisciplined brats running around. (not insinuating that anyone in this forum has any of those.. it was just a general statement). Remember, these brats do turn into adults, and become, supposedly "productive individuals". How productive can they truely be when they've never had to really work for anything because they've been handed every designer toy or piece of clothing.. throughout most of their formative years.
Just my .02 on the entire *hot item* and *child rearing* issue.
[ edited by rosiebud on Oct 26, 2000 06:00 PM ]
posted on October 26, 2000 06:01:41 PM
Why do we need a moderator? While we are disagreeing, no one is being nasty. I've not meant any offense, nor have I taken one from anyone who has posted.
And I saw your post Silver, but the discussion has to do with reselling more than buying. Did I miss your point?
posted on October 26, 2000 06:03:37 PM
Meya, some people noted that people paid so much, and I just wanted to offer my point of view. That, and a few posts kinda ticked me off.
Re-read it again, and then think about it.
:\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
posted on October 26, 2000 06:24:58 PM
Interesting, the viewpoints posted here.
Let me start by saying that my 3 boys know the difference between wants and needs (at least my oldest does), fully appreciate the wants when they get them and normally earn at least 1/2 prior to getting if not a reasonable b-day ro x-mas gift. My children happen to have parents and extended family that are well off and can afford higher priced items. That does not make them brats etc. They spend Thanksgiving each year at a soup kitchen and we donate tons of items to our local shelters. At X-mas we have an annual ritual where we go to the city and hand out food, blankets and cash to those in need. My children have chores and know what hard work is and how to earn something.They also know they are very lucky to live in the USA and in this family and that others do not have 1/2 of what they have.
Now -
It is really interesting as was posted and I fully agree that those of you that find that 'hard to find' pottery item and re-sell it on ebay for hundreds over it's true value - you know it - in fact, many of you come here to gloat or wonder why it went so high. No one says you are despicable for doing so etc. Interesting how when it is a national brand entertainment system and not a 'collectible' that the rules change.
Are all of those adults that bought and re-sold their world series tickets at triple the price - are they despicable too?
To me and IMHO - this is strictly a business decision. In fact, I applaud myself for actually being a step ahead for once.
I was able to get something that I may be able to resell for double what I paid. Again, if it was a collectible item - many of you naysayers (previous posts do prove this) would be on here saying great find - good job!
If your anger is that Christmas has become commercialized then are you telling me that your listings aren't increased this time of year - you don't do anything to capitalize on this season?
I am fully conscious free on this one. I am going to sell it and I do hope to make a sizeable profit. To do so will allow me to work less hours and spend more time with my family - which is my top priority.
I have no clue where the anger is coming from but to say those that are re-selling these are despicable is calling the kettle black - IMHO.
Meya - Can you please explain to me specifically why you feel this type of business deal is despicable but selling a collectible for 3 times the known value or listing more items to capitalize on the commercialization of x-mas is okay? Not wanting an argument - I have generally agreed with your posts - but this one I truly do not understand.
BTW - I believe the majority of buyers are adults and gamers wanting the latest and greatest.
Moderators should appear when someone here gets ticked off? Geesh, we'd need a whole phalanx of moderators, zooming here and there to keep the peace.
Like Meya, I'm searching for the violation of CGs that would truly call for a moderator. Perhaps you can more explicitly quote the offending posts and the CGs that are violated, so that we can all see the problem?
Edited to add that I guess that almost *any* discussion here that goes more than 4 posts probably could be interpreted to violate CGs in some fashion...but if this does, its a pretty mild violation, not quite the "holy cow, where the heck are the moderators" kind of violations that usually involve direct, profane kind of attacks. JMO of course.
[ edited by captainkirk on Oct 26, 2000 06:36 PM ]
posted on October 26, 2000 06:37:01 PM
My heart goes out to you single moms trying to make it and do good by your children. Brings back so many memories -- some good and some -- well, I can say we lived through them. And maybe even, when all was said and done, triumphed, as you will too.
I was very lucky. My son (now 28) had a very strong sense of self. He came in with it, so to speak, and I recognized very early on that he really wanted to be treated like a *real person* from toddlerhood on. Wasn't easy complying but on those few occasions I did it worked very well for both of us. I eventually ran across the notion of treating children like *apprentice adults,* and that made a lot of sense to me, and certainly helped me be a better parent.
But I digress (sorry).
This comment is NOT about PlayStation, nor any child's fondest dream. It's about our consumerist society, and the pressures on all our citizens to follow fads, do and be the latest *in* thing, and in general be good little consumers and FOLLOWERS.
Like I said, I was lucky because my son is sorta bent that way by nature (to be independent). So by the time he was around peers who were using drugs, living the high life (pun intended), and so on -- peer pressure meant literally nothing to him. And no, he wasn't the most popular kid in school, but he was, and is, a fine human being.! What a blessing it was for me, and how much easier it made his teenage years (for both of us)!
Anyway -- it seems to me that whatever we as parents can do to help children be a little less vulnerable to peer pressure, the better off they -- and we all (all of society) -- will be. Again, this is NOT about fulfilling your precious little ones' fondest wishes and making dreams come true -- that's real important too, I think. It's just about resisting, and helping them resist, a little of SOCIETY'S pressure to conform.
Sorry for the soapbox moment. . . .
edited to add: whew! I'm going to have to learn to write faster or shorter. Look at all the fireworks I missed while I was writing this. Yikes!
posted on October 26, 2000 06:47:08 PM
I'm not sure I can articulate my feelings on this...it's getting late here and I'm tired. My intent was not to start something, the posts just didn't sit right with me.
I guess it is partly the commercialization of Christmas that is at the heart of my opinion on this. If the truth were told, I suppose my irritation is at the retailers, in this case Sony, who seem to handle the supply of this newest item in such as way as to create the "problem" (huge demand, low supply) in the first place. Add the mental picture of kids by the Christmas tree, to the scenerio of being lucky enough to find one of the elusive toys, then reselling it at a huge markup, and the thoughts it brings to my mind is just "ick".
Now, in no way do I find fault with people who find that lucky thrift shop item for $3 and resell it for say $100. I just don't think it is the same thing.
You're probably correct that most of the people willing to pay the huge markup are adults buying for themselves and not some borderline, living hand to mouth parent, just trying to make junior smile on Christmas morning. It is certainly early in the season, and those who are buying now are jumping the gun perhaps. But, I saw first hand those who bought up the N64's, and I saw the frenzied parents in the parking lot dealing with those "sellers". It just bothered me.
I'm curious, those of you who see nothing wrong with this. Would you sit in the Toy Store parking lot and sell them? This is a serious question, would you?
Again, this is just my opinion. Wow, the reactions have been amazing. It's a difference of opinion, not a nuclear war.
posted on October 26, 2000 07:00:28 PM
To nobody in particular...
If you found a box of 10 widgets at a yard sale for $1 each, and you knew they were rarely seen on eBay and generally sold for aroubd $100 each, would you list all 10 at one time?
More than once, I've read posts here from sellers who said they had multiples of some type of collectible, and asked whether it would be better to list them all at once or just one at a time. Just about every response was that it would be best to list them one at a time, so as not to have them in competition with each other.
How is that any different than a big company attempting to "manipulate" the supply of a product in their favor? Does Sony have an obligation (moral or legal) to supply a product to every person who desires one, when they desire one, at the price they desire to pay?
but on those few occasions I did it worked very well for both of us. I eventually ran across the notion of treating children like *apprentice adults,* and that made a lot of sense to me, and certainly helped me be a better parent.