posted on October 23, 2000 11:37:13 AM
I have purchased a lot of about 30 each small earring presentation boxes (cardboard, not high dollar) from a salvage liquidator, and was wondering how to proceed auctioning them without incurring the wrath of VERO. They do have a well-known jewellers' name printed on the tops, and would be excellent for extra protection for costume jewelry sellers.
Should I just make sure I don't mention the brand name in the title or description? or also make sure the name doesn't show in the picture?
posted on October 23, 2000 12:17:09 PM
I wonder - do eBay and their dreaded VeRo cohorts have the capability (or desire) to search through each auction and look at the pictures? I'm thinking that if you do not include any names in your auction text, but let the name clearly show on your picture, it might just work ...
posted on October 23, 2000 12:47:49 PM
If you purchased them legally, without entering into any contract regarding their resale, you can sell them. There are other threads here that discuss the doctrine of first sale...
That doesn't mean the manufacturer might not abuse VeRO to have the auctions eliminated, however. The search capabilities of VeRO members are no different than other users. The "perks" they get are the ability to have multiple auctions closed quickly on their say so, and the ability to query your contact info (through eBay) without you being aware of it.
posted on October 23, 2000 01:59:11 PM
But Steve, do you think these VeRO members have the time or desire to go through thousands and thousands of auctions to catch someone? It's easy for them to zero in on certain key words or phrases (like Chanel) by doing a simple search. Seems to me that they would not be able to do this with pictures.
You're right about the problems that develop even when you do have permission to sell the item. You can include a phrase to that effect in your description, but eBay/VeRO will still automatically assume you are guilty, they will try you in absentia, and convict you with absolutely no advance notice to you. The onus is then on you to plead with them to have your auction reinstated. By that time, most sellers would/should be pissed off enough that they tell eBay to take a hike
I am 'living proof' of that scenario ...
[ edited by RB on Oct 23, 2000 02:00 PM ]
posted on October 23, 2000 02:05:34 PM
there is an older thread on "salina"? where the person was vero'ed There is also a form on the thread to fill out to send to Ebay legal to reinstate your auction should you be vero'ed
look at that form and be prepared to send it to Ebay
I agree. VeRO folks seem to rely on the automated search tools (eBay suggests to them that they use eBay's Personal Shopper to track their IP items), and a product name in a pic wouldn't show up in such a search. The problem, of course, is that it won't show up in a search by potential bidders, either.
The abuses we've heard about seem to be the result of a VeRO IP owner directing eBay to eliminate all the auctions in a search result, without taking the extra time to review them to see whether they were infringing or not.
The appeal form eBay provides is intimidating, to say the least, and few sellers would travel that path, IMO.
posted on October 23, 2000 06:54:22 PM
If you purchased boxes whose production was authorized by the company (even if from a salvage liquidator), you have a legal right to sell them for what they are, show pictures of it AND mention the name.
Accurately descirbe the item and you are clear.
check for posts with "Doctrine of First Sale" in them ... I don't have time to retype it, but there are supreme court decisions saying that once the copyright holder sells something, they can't stop you from reselling it.
posted on October 23, 2000 08:07:06 PM
abacaxi - the point I am trying to make is once VeRO has canceled an auction, the seller has to beg to get it relisted. Isn't this like the Daily News printing "Abacaxi Murders Lover" on page 1 in 3" letters, then printing the apology on page 17 in 10 pt font? Once the damage is done, it's done. This is convicting without a trial, guilty until proven innocent, and totally unfair to the seller. If VeRo or eBay has a problem with an auction, why can't they contact the seller, review the facts, and then decide if it should be canceled. The way they do it now is bad, bad, bad, and rights or not, it creates a foul taste in my mouth ...
posted on October 23, 2000 08:43:26 PM
RB -
"the point I am trying to make is once VeRO has canceled an auction, the seller has to beg to get it relisted"
Actually, if you look at the way the removal of the disputed content works, the seller does NOT have to beg.
1. eBay MUST remove it promptly if a VERO agent tells them it is violating copyright.
2. If the seller whose material was removed files the "it's not a violation" form with eBay, the VERO agent MUST file (not threaten to file, must actually file) suit in the federal court closest to the seller. they MUST do it within a certain number of days or lose by inaction.
3. At the end of that time spam, if no suit has been filed, eBay MUST "restore" the removed content at the seller's request. No begging required, just tell them that the waiting period is over and you want your auction RESTORED and for them to not mess with it again.
posted on October 24, 2000 06:02:57 AM
But, in spite of all this double talk, the FIRST time an auction is canceled for whatever reason, it labels the seller as someone who MAY be trying to sale illegal items. Many buyers will avoid this seller 'just in case' ...
Once again - if eBay/VeRO has a problem with a listing, they should talk to the lister BEFORE canceling the auction. This is called "communication" and is the way the real world works
posted on October 24, 2000 10:57:32 AM
I wonder if VERO is just like a new toy that allows some geeks at a firm to spend all day surfing the web for "infringements" and at the end of the day they can go to the Pointy Hair Boss and say "Gee! I terminated 1000 ingringements in ebay today".
I wonder if when the next recession hits, if companies will have to evaluate the real worth of this program? How much does terminating a auction of used ring boxes really ad to companies bottom line?
Lawsuits can be a profit center, but the fact is that average ebay seller would go bankrupt before they would/could pay a fraction of the legal awards that would be needed to cover the cost of time it takes a corporate lawsuit to think of sueing.
Does ebay VERO compliant form require the owners to affirm under prejury that the items are infringing? If not, we should just lobby that owners should have to affirm under a prejury clause. That would allow sellers to file a criminal compliant against abusive Legal Bullies.
I know that prejury is not enforced in most cases, but people are still alot more caustous of prejurying themselves, especially in a corporate environment where such things can come back and bite you years later.
posted on October 24, 2000 11:45:47 AM
Well many industries used a trade association to do their dirty work (MPAA, RIAA, et al.). There is no reason why on-line auction sellers could not form their own 800 lb gorilla to airdrop legal shock troops on anyone who annoys us.
