posted on November 2, 2000 12:19:11 AM
I ran across this missive on another site. Please read with a grain of salt, as the backgound of the author, shows that they have been paid for thier writing. However something to think about. ED
posted on November 2, 2000 12:55:02 AM
HI ED, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR THE LINK,
WELL GUESS I'M NOT ALONE,,I CAN REALLY RELATE..GEE THE WORST TIME FOR ALL THIS,WE INVEST ALL YEAR ON CHRISTMAS ITEMS..AGGHH
I HAVE A NOOK IN 2 SHOPS,(PRETTY SLOW)HAVE STARTED SOME OF THOSE FREE TEMPLETE ONLINE STORES,(NOTHING YET),GONE BACK TO YAHOO,,,DEAD WITHOUT BEING FEATURED..MIN.10 OR MORE A DAY.
at least they are biz oriented..go to their home page.you can convert your ebay feedback to DOLLARS to use for featured auctions..this will probably really save me.Having a good old yard sale this weekend(great timing cold wet weather) All in all many good points in the article..at least i have tried to diversify.Can't beleive it is this bad out there,slow & outages gheesh..
Just spent an hour figuring out the free list thing at auctionrover/goto
can list at ebay & they will reimburse your fees by check or paypal within 8 weeeks,
east coast time till 9pm west coast time tomorrow night.if you try hit be sure to hit launch immediately.
I had trouble getting pics to work..spoiled by good ole' a/w...you have to copy & paste the pics into form,ebay pic url & gallery too..gheesh..is it worth it?
so glad we have each other..rough month..
good luck,,thanks for the food for thought..
really am going to give yahoo a go,actually sold something there this week! shock..my fear is we list on ebay in spite of outages & it may really blow just before Christmas & our poor people won't get their gifts.
thanks again,Pam
posted on November 2, 2000 03:47:14 AMmacandjan - apt comparison to "a mining company, not a farm". After two weeks of good sales, this woman thought she'd be able to ride the gravy train and got all upset when she discovered running her own business actually took more time and energy, and was less lucrative, than the job she left. Uh....surprise. That's why so many businesses fail during their first year. All people see is the profits, not the work and risk involved. This woman's action was not unlike sinking one's life savings into, say Beanies at the height of the buying frenzy, and then was soooooo surprised when the bottom fell out because everybody else on the planet was doing the same thing.
Frankly, anybody who would leave a RL job after two weeks in her own business has more than one screw loose.
posted on November 2, 2000 03:56:48 AM
RIGHT ON,we MUST PUT IT ALL BACK into the "business",to make it grow,takes a lot of time. Can't believe she quit her job like that.
I've been taking part in the free ebay listing deal at auctionrover/goto,took awhile to set up,but wow sure makes a pretty listing.hope it helps.since fees will be refunded looks like reserve fee too,it will help a lot. running through tomorrow at 9pm west coast time if anyone wants to try. found out about it on another thread.(great info on these message boards,great group of helpful people).kind of fun for a change..free ebay listing..feels kinda nice..if you know what i mean..hehe
good luck everyone,pam
posted on November 2, 2000 06:45:41 AM
Gee, just the energy boost I needed to finish those last minute FREE auction relists. Now I feel like sweeping up what's left of my collectable & kooky treasures and throwing them in the trash! What's the use.
I did see glimpse's of recognition in the author's story to my own ebay experience. The day's of multi bids and listing a valuable item with no reserve at 1/4 of it's value, because you know the bidding will push the price up, are over.
I have a favortite word that I have been doing searches on for over two years to find the best items in different categories for my own collection. This past 6 mos I have seen bidding go from almost every item receiving bids, to half, to a handful per page. Yes, there is a lot more junk listed than there use to be, but this can't account for only 3 bids per 50 listings.
The author's story gave credibility to the fact that this isn't just happening to the "gold miners" as some of the others have characterized her. It is also happening to people who have been in this biz since before ebay and know their merchandise.
The truth be told when I did my 3rd quarter tax report, my ebay sales were the smaller than when I first began selling, listing 10 items per week. Now I list 50 but only 10 sell. I guess this is why corporate ebay is still getting rich taking more and more of my listing fees and selling fewer of my items.
posted on November 2, 2000 07:36:54 AMI guess this is why corporate ebay is still getting rich taking more and more of my listing fees and selling fewer of my items.
I don't see the logic in this. I pay a buck to list an item and sell itfor $25; ebay's take is $2.25. I pay a buck to list an item and don't sell it; ebay's take is only $1. How does that increase ebay's revenues?
The day's of multi bids and listing a valuable item with no reserve at 1/4 of it's value, because you know the bidding will push the price up, are over.
Exactly - the boom's over. And that's just what it was - a boom, a bidding frenzy based on novelty. Expecting a boom to last is like expecting sales to be like Christmas year-round. It just ain't the way retail works.
The ONLY people who are going to survive in the online auction business are those who do the numbers work first and treat it like a business, mixing "trend" items with those boring solid sellers, keeping costs down, working hard to market their merchandise to the appropriate targets, and providing exemplary customer service. This is not a get-rich-quick scheme; the only ones who thought it was, and treated it accordingly, have ended up like the author. No big surprise there.
posted on November 2, 2000 07:51:35 AM
My suspicions are that the story is pure "Fiction"...Something that only could happen...The clues are the fact that she is an author of several books, and a contributor to Salon...
About the author:
A former investigative reporter, Claudia O'Keefe's most recent book is Father: Famous Writers Celebrate the Bond Between Father and Child.
posted on November 2, 2000 07:54:13 AM
Gee, here's the MATH, for those of you who went to school with George W. I use to list ten items per week that is $10, now to have a chance to sell those same 10 items I have to cast my net upon the waters and list 50. That is $50 for ebay. Gee ebay's profits increase by $40, my sales stay the same.
Unlike many of you who post on this board, I buy and sell antiques. Which are items, as I explain to my husband who owns a brick and mortar business, I can not order through the wholesale warehouse. My items are unique and individual, many one of a kind and that I purchase at varying costs.
Just trying to say that success was built by collectable and antique sellers like myself and we are being thrown aside for corporate sellers and wholesale sellers. What made ebay unique and special in the past will be gone. Individuals.
Yes, I am sad for that fact. I've enjoyed most of my ebay experiences, I'm not going to become homeless. I still have my Antique store, antique mall spots, and Antique shows. I have always maintained it took a combination of all to be successful. Ebay just might not be worth the effort in the future.
posted on November 2, 2000 07:59:00 AMThe ONLY people who are going to survive in the online auction business are those who do the numbers work first and treat it like a business, mixing "trend" items with those boring solid sellers, keeping costs down, working hard to market their merchandise to the appropriate targets, and providing exemplary customer service.
But that's all so... well, boring. Why would anyone want to read a story about that? Much better to print one about an evil faceless corporation ruining the life of a poor, defenseless victim just trying to scrape by- that'll keep em' riveted, for sure.
posted on November 2, 2000 08:14:10 AMHCQ Regarding this comment you made-Exactly - the boom's over. And that's just what it was - a boom, a bidding frenzy based on novelty. Expecting a boom to last is like expecting sales to be like Christmas year-round. It just ain't the way retail works..
If this is true then let's work on the next frenzy.. today! Count me in on your views. Let's get ourselves out of here now that we got ourselves in here. Web pages bottomed, auctions bottomed, let the trailblazing begin! Let's all pack our bags today! Make the ebay's, Amazons, Pay Pal's, and others hear out calling!
posted on November 2, 2000 08:23:48 AMJust trying to say that success was built by collectable and antique sellers like myself and we are being thrown aside for corporate sellers and wholesale sellers. What made ebay unique and special in the past will be gone. Individuals.
posted on November 2, 2000 09:27:08 AM
Uh.... I AM one of those collectible and antiques sellers.
This month marks my 2-year anniversary selling on ebay. For the past year and a half, my net profit % has been consistent, although down about 25% from my first 6 months as a seller, which was a serious boom period generally on ebay. As a matter of fact, if you delete the intermittent "key finds" (the $1 widget I sold for $500) that spike on the graph, I'm actually doing BETTER this year than last.
What I finally realized, like reston_ray noted in another post, the $5 sale is just not worth the effort to me. (I hope other sellers don't decide that's true for them, because as a bidder I LOVE $5 sales!) So I stick to bigger-ticket items now, mostly $25-250, and bring in the same $ without doing all that listing, emailing, packaging, and dragging to the PO.
marvey, you have to list 50 items to sell 10? In my past 100 sales I've had to relist ONE item. Sounds like you need to look at your merchandise, your marketing, and your competition rather than pointing the finger at mean old ebay.
Incidentally, what's your net profit % on ebay as opposed to that in your RL shop and at shows?
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Nov 2, 2000 09:28 AM ]
posted on November 2, 2000 09:47:46 AMI hope other sellers don't decide that's true for them, because as a bidder I LOVE $5 sales!
Thanks for putting that thought in- it gets annoying sometimes, reading the posts that suggest that those selling low-dollar items (as I do) are wasting their time.
I don't doubt for a second that there is more money to be made in the more expensive items, but what some people seem to forget when offering advice is that there are many people using eBay in many different ways, for many different reasons.
Just because one person wouldn't run their auctions in a particular fashion doesn't necessarily mean that another shouldn't.
posted on November 2, 2000 11:57:24 AM
The story is amazing. The woman states that she has a feedback rating of 850 after 3 years (over 1,000 days) of listing full time and earning 3 times her salary.
She was able to earn 3 times her salary by only listing 1 item per day?????
posted on November 2, 2000 05:17:03 PM
I compare the author to the same folks who move into antique malls, filling their booths with unwanted contents of their closets, attic and basement...most of it unwanted by anyone. After the first wave of sales, their booths look awful, and they whine about rent, overhead, etc. Blame everyone but Elvis. Any business takes work, work, work. As an auctioneer (live and online), picker, dealer, etc., my theory of figuring if I'm making it every month has been the rule of thirds: your rent/costs should be one-third, the next third to buy more inventory, and the final third to pay yourself. That final third is optional, since you may need that third to buy more inventory if the buyin' is right. If you can't earn that first one-third, you need to make a few adjustments. In any case, I've made money online even when items didn't sell, because my costs to list and auction commissions every month are far lower than booth rent.
posted on November 2, 2000 09:35:03 PM
Couldn't agree more with BIGRUBY, it takes work, work and more work and many market places to be a success in the antiques/collectible business, I have been selling on ebay for 4 full years now, yes in the beginning it was gangbusters! Couldn't do anything wrong, it all sold and for big $$,s, its different now, so many sellers, so many items! I too have antique malls, (three) shows and private customers, there is no free lunch, ebay is not our saviour, its a venue, but its just one, you have to have many to make it in this business.
posted on November 3, 2000 04:50:15 AM
I have to comment about the "hard work" doctrines that seem to flourish on this board.
People may find that "hard work" is a good thing in and of itself, however some don't.
Accordingly, it is a flagrant mistake to equate "hard work" with creating success, or a necessary element of success, provided we agree success in business and commecre is measured by profits.
I have yet to meet a successful business person that "worked hard". They worked smart, not hard. The hard working ones are forever trying to match the success and never succeding.
If "hard work" was the seminal ingredient of attaining wealth through commerce, or business, then our millionaire and billionaire class would be made up of coal miners and others who work very hard - obviously it is not.
If you're working hard, you're not working smart. Working smart will bring success, working hard may bring personal satisfaction, especially if it is at something you love, but it is not an element of producing success.
posted on November 3, 2000 05:09:40 AM
And I think we'd all agree, reamond, that the author of the article worked neither "hard" nor "smart."
I'd also suggest that "working hard" doesn't mean merely devoting physical energy (e.g. long hours), but mental energy as well (e.g. sizing up your market and your merchandise) - what I think you'd characterize as "working smart". For example, as a quilter I spend a lot of time actually at the sewing machine, but I'd guess I spend at least twice that much time researching my market, designing my stuff in my head, and figuring out how best to sell it.
posted on November 3, 2000 05:58:27 AM
"Working hard" does include the expenditure of mental activities. But the same rules apply.
A lot of people find mental activities hard work in and of itself - and their results show it. Our patent office is filled with millions of patents from hard working individuals which are never used.
The person "working smart" knows how much energy to expend and in what direction to expend it. Steve Jobs worked hard and at one time a little smart to create Apple. Bill Gates worked smart. Bill Gates purchased DOS from a hard "mentally" working individual.
Working smart means having the analytical mental ability to expend the right resources in the most effective and efficient manner. This determins who is "successful".
However, we must recognize that we are using a very limited definition of success.
posted on November 3, 2000 12:04:21 PM
Allow me to offer a dissenting opinion:
Possibly, just possibly, the author is in fact sincere. It appears that she did a number of the right things * if we take her at her word * (i.e. 60 hour workweek, checking to see prices achieved in closed auctions, looking for unusual items, getting up early to get sales, etc.)
None of this indicates laziness, if true. Moreover, she must not have been too horrible a business person, because she lasted 3 years. A true incompetent would have dried up earlier, I think, just on poor customer service for an example.
All this leads me to wonder whether the changing ebay market simply caught up with her a little sooner than the posters here.
Between 3rd world nations selling resin "antiquities", with no government regulations to worry about, and one corporate partnership after another pouring innumerable listings onto the site, perhaps someone here will be writing the next Salon article.
posted on November 3, 2000 12:18:57 PM
I must add that I have been on ebay since hector was a pup, aka the beginning. I was acquainted with Claudia through an ebay bulletin board. She was a smart, hardworking, savvy seller. However the complexion of ebay has evolved & changed over the years.
The successes I have now on ebay are no where near the early years success. And yes, it is possible to sell alot and have low feedback. The first year I was on ebay I sold $120,000 worth of merchandise, my feedback 250. Total transactions 350. I just sold high ticket merch that's all. So it can be done.
I think ebay continues to evolve and you snooze you lose. Pay attention to trends!
posted on November 3, 2000 12:30:15 PM
If you're working 60 hours a week on eBay sales and not netting at least $30,000 a year, you're doing something terribly wrong.
This breaks down to $8 an hour with time and a half for anything over a 40 week. This breaks down to $560 a week net. I used $8 an hour because that is what McDonalds pays, and you don't have to invest in capital equipment to work at McDonalds.
The true "magic" of the internet should be that you can be selling on eBay while doing something else.
I say this knowing that there will be people exclaim that they are a stay at home mother, disabled, etc., but a stay at home mom that actually puts in 60 hours a week on eBay sales is not spending quality with the kids, unless it is true you can do two things at once well. However, these are quality of life issues rather than business issues.
Watch for eBay to start announcing more corporations partnering with their site, because there is no way eBay can meet their gross revenue projections from "collectables" and used items. eBay is saturated with these items now.
posted on November 3, 2000 01:22:31 PM
That story was terrific, and contained most of the reasons I left for greener pastures on Yahoo. I still say its illegal for ebay to charge sellers for downtimes.
posted on November 3, 2000 02:34:52 PM
If I was a lawyer I could tell you, but common sense tells me you dont pay for services not received. No wonder all these people like meg are filthy rich! Getting paid, and no worries about the site or sellers, Must be nice. Maybe I am in the wrong business!
