mentecky
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posted on November 12, 2000 07:28:26 PM
This just in....
Not only has the eBay Detective emailed the supposed "shiller" but has emailed all sellers that had items she bid on!!
This action has led to many of them cancelling her bids!!!!
This helps eBay sellers a lot.
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bobbysoxer
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posted on November 12, 2000 07:38:39 PM
Ok, so maybe the recent increase of discussions in various eBay boards including this message center, is an attempt to recruit members?
not bobbysoxer on eBay
[email protected]
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bobbysoxer
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posted on November 12, 2000 07:49:53 PM
radh
I am sorry you were threatened with such violence.
I just want you to know that when my post referred to you, I was quoting from the other thread. ok?
not bobbysoxer on eBay
[email protected]
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HJW
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posted on November 12, 2000 08:00:30 PM
Radh
This is the comment by isworeiwouldneverdothis that led me to believe
that you were friends.
isworeiwouldneverdothis
posted on November 6, 2000 07:35:13 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Whether or not *that* comment was
intended as a threat, it was a warning and demonstrates what might happen to anyone who crosses the EDA."
No--not who crosses the EDA. Just someone who catches the eye of any cyberspace lunatic with stalking skills. Been there, had it happen to me. I was cautioning her BECAUSE I like her. Because she's a good person, with intelligence and wit and compassion. Because she doesn't deserve the kind of grief an anonymous lunatic with an obsessive grudge can cause her if he so desires."
end of quote by isworeiwouldneverdothis.
Helen
[ edited by HJW on Nov 13, 2000 05:24 AM ]
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mo98
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posted on November 12, 2000 08:05:57 PM
Give me a break! The whole reason why we do this is to try to attract repeat cumsomers. You have the type of item they like they will come back. I get a lot of repeat customers. It would be different if they never were the high bidder on the item or backed out alot. Get a life!!!!
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joice
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posted on November 12, 2000 08:10:59 PM
Hello Everyone,
Just stopping by to remind you all to address the subject and not the poster(s).
Joice
Moderator.
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HJW
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posted on November 12, 2000 08:24:23 PM
Radh,
This is another message from iswore about your friendship. This, together with the fact
that I was issued a warning from the moderator for responding to what I percieved
as a threat seems to indicate that I was
wrong . Otherwise the moderator would have
addressed the threat...not my reply.
Sorry if I was misled.
Helen
isworeiwouldneverdothis
posted on November 6, 2000 08:22:49 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Radh,
That was not a threat and you know me better than that. There are some crazy people out there and they target vocal ones. I know. I have been targeted myself. I would not want you to go through what I went through. And you KNOW what I went through.
Just be careful. Never take your safety for granted.
I am not threatening you. I do not do that. But I am smart enough to recognize when people put themselves in danger, and I do not want that to happen to you. I happen to like you, Radh, though when you act like this it gets a bit difficult."
end of quote
[ edited by HJW on Nov 12, 2000 08:28 PM ]
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isworeiwouldneverdothis
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posted on November 12, 2000 08:35:28 PM
Radh,
If you do not know me, then stop forwarding to me those emails--like the lady with the stuffed monkey--from people who feel they have been ripped off and have emailed you. If you don't know me, then you don't know me. You cannot have it both ways.
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pattisown
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posted on November 12, 2000 08:41:29 PM
Well Now lively discussion.. I am not afraid to use my real ID here or
anywhere else since this person a very good friend of mine got the original
email.. bids have been retracted and canceled.. both on selling and buying.
And very coincidentally the hound dogs are right within her own stare and
county if not claiming to be in the same town.. so is it coincidence or trying to
eliminate some selling competition Hmmm something very interesting to ponder
on isn't it??
The support on the auction site and safe harbor says no way its not our
problem nothing they can do..Yadda yadda blah blah blah .. she gets an email
from a seller telling her bidding on more then one item hurts his reputation as a
credible seller when it's sent she bids multiple items.. gimme a break here.. now
come on.. How because the person is a resells off-line as well?? Now to
me that smacks of real foul stinkin' "bull funky" and not only is it very stupid
but also to me would hurt a rep more by denying the person the right to bid..
As for the Hound doggies Or should I say Mongrels we know they are there the
auction site knows they are there but won't admit to it which to me makes
them real close to being if not already an accessory to illegal activity.. (and yep I
can back this up with legal fact .. we are not stupid we keep a lawyer on
retainer for many aspects of our lives as well as selling ) intimidation and
harassment by communications by them knowing its going on and won't even try
and handle) .. intimidating our members but as long as we get our money. and
cover our won assets so to speak by not .. admitting that we sanction these
jerks who have nothing better to do then sit on their have no lives behinds
and search auctions for repeat bidding.. Now MY question is Are we
buyers and seller going to allow this to keep up? Are we going to take it? I
won't .. I will add a statement to every one of my listings to warn anyone
making false accusations or anyone being accused of any when bidding on
my items to ignore them and let me know Immediately so I have my own
proof or evidence.. and if anyone contacts me or my buyers had better be
prepared to face a judge with total proof and lots of Money Because I
will go after them for everything they own or ever will earn.. and if the
auction site owners don't wise up and be careful now to nip this in the bud.. ..
they will get burnt along with these Idiots who think they rule the internet..
this is a bomb ticking waiting to go off.. and if not defused it will.. can you
say... Class Action?? I may make type bad because of arthritis and may misspell
But I am not stupid.. My Daddy taught me well Be Blunt be Honest ,
even if it makes you unpopular betterto be an unpopular honest person then a hypocrite and
Learn To know what you are talking about and be able to back it up with fact..
..and never profess to be an expert or better then anyone else .. Never put
yourself up higher then others you may get a nose bleed .. And anyone who uses
a fake or unregistered ID to attack people in the name of credibility and
ethics < laughable . is a C O W A R D ..
<p> Hi Mentecky !!! </p>
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isworeiwouldneverdothis
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posted on November 12, 2000 08:49:43 PM
Pattisown,
' "And very coincidentally the hound dogs are right within her own stare and
county if not claiming to be in the same town.. so is it coincidence or trying to
eliminate some selling competition Hmmm something very interesting to ponder
on isn't it??" '
Yeah, I wondered about that.
Maybe it is the case of the same wolf, different disguise.
I do hope they discover who did it.
I do not approve of such tactics.
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pattisown
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posted on November 12, 2000 09:33:11 PM
bhearsch: I would be ver interested in looking into that group.. sounds good to me.. something very usefull.. good groups are hard to come by.. can you email be info in privtae.. mail to my yahoo please.. its [email protected]
Thanks Patti
Please check out my online shop
A Collector's Niche
http://www.zcntr.com/collectors_niche/
My auctions listed:
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=pattisown
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bhearsch
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posted on November 12, 2000 10:58:04 PM
Hi pattisown. I think you're asking about the OAUA and if so, here is a link to their home page which has all the info you need to join.
http://oaua.auctionusers.org/
I hope to see you there.
Blanche
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amy
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posted on November 12, 2000 11:26:58 PM
Toy..I don't know either.
In one way, your being involved tends to lend an aura of legitimacy to it. You have some strature in the online auction community.
Your first "brush" with these wannabe private dicks was in the role of an investigative reporter exposing something corrupt. Then you go in and "clean it up" by driving the "bad guys" out (even if that wasn't your intention, it was the result). Now you tell us your role is as a devil's advocate.
But the way you tell it (at least the impression it gives me) is that the group has given you that role...they want you to be the devil's advocate. It looks to me as if you are an integral part of the group not an outsider who is voicing an opinion that is not wanted. (and this is what makes me wonder why you exposed them in the first place).
I don't think this group..or others like it..should be given any legitimacy. I think they should be seen as the rogues they are.
BUT...These groups do need to be constantly challenged in an attempt to minimize the damage they can do...or challenged to the point that they give up and focus their attention on something a little more benign.
BUT...To challenge them feeds their feelings of self importance..and possibly ensuring they become even more "vigilant"
So..are you confused about where I stand? I know I am!
[ edited by amy on Nov 13, 2000 12:21 AM ]
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kitsch1
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posted on November 12, 2000 11:27:50 PM
It is already turning out as I envisioned it could be. Dolphins caught in the tuna net. AND one of the very net cops warning a vocal opponent (namely Radh) that it's best to keep quiet.
Why I ask you should she keep quiet????? The answer given is basically the lunatics go after the most outspoken. (the answer given by one of your own, which should really tell you guys a thing or two)
LOOK at what you have started!!!!!!!
I'll tell you something I believe to be true. Y'all are screwing up. Ive looked up a shill or two because it affected me, Ive asked a friend to look to see if I was right or wrong.
Once you get into a group tho, an unsactioned group of hot dogs, you're digging a hole.
I dont like it, you people are scary, but I guarandamntee you I have no fear of you.
There are more frightening things in my past and present than a bunch of wannabeeeees.
Toyranch, if you are askin, Get out of it. And thank you.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/[email protected]/
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isworeiwouldneverdothis
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posted on November 13, 2000 12:05:50 AM
Kel,
Radh and I (gingertree. Remember me?) go back a long ways. I do not consider her an opponent. I DID consider her a friend. Still would if she would only get off this strange notion that I am not me.
For the rest of it, I don't care. I can only do what I do. I am only responsible for what I do. And if people want to believe all sorts of lies about me, fine. I don't mind being notorious. But I am not responsible for the actions of a crackpot or a troll.
Gotta go to bed. It is getting WAAAAY too late.
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mentecky
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posted on November 13, 2000 12:15:48 AM
Is that Kelz?????
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kitsch1
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posted on November 13, 2000 12:23:10 AM
It is  Hi Metecky
Gingertree, I am not attacking, and not you personally. It is the group of untried soldiers I worry about. You have to admit that you deputized a few and they deputized a few and then they told two friends and on and on and on.
There are going to be huge mistakes made. Police departments train and train and train against going out on your own and bein a cowboy.
You have no such control.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/[email protected]/
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kitsch1
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posted on November 13, 2000 12:24:21 AM
I am for bed as well.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/[email protected]/
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mentecky
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posted on November 13, 2000 12:30:33 AM
HIYA HUN!!!! I miss the Kelz!!!
And you are right. No one in these "agencies" thinks about the fallout from their actions. Heck, I'm dealing with one person that is convinced all life is over if she can't buy and sell on eBay. I can't imagine how many more there are like her. Her crime?... Bid on more than one lot from the same person. It's a damned shame!!!!
Kelz... Glad to see you are alright. Drop a line sometime ok?
Rick
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toyranch-07
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posted on November 13, 2000 05:19:09 AM
Amy~
I think you and I are seeing eye to eye on this.
I'm about as confused as you are... 
http://www.millionauctionmarch.com/
[email protected]
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shar9
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posted on November 13, 2000 05:36:55 AM
Good Morning Bhearsch,
Thanks for the information. I didn't realize this although I have read a very little bit over there and knew the name but could not think of it at the time of my posting yesterday.
isworeiwouldneverdothis and ToyRanch,
Let me get something straight not that I sure there is a difference (meaning I still worry about a group/ posse in any form that is without anyone to answer to in the long run except to be "thumped on the head" which you explained that was just an expression)
Are you saying that EDP group and eAuction group are two completely different groups and that you are with eAuction group. (taking into consideration your statement for being there ToyRanch)?
Hello roystermule,
"You said it was against the rules to harass or pull the contact info of another user and you hope whoever sent that email gets nailed."
As to your #2. Okay rules say the group is not to pull contact.
IMHO it seems that the way, type and extent of prying and ways that are allowable to get info they have done everything but a strip search of the person in question.
I'm thinking a miranda warning might be in order.
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isworeiwouldneverdothis
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posted on November 13, 2000 05:58:57 AM
Kelly,
"You have to admit that you deputized a few."
No, I do not have to admit that, because I didn't. Methinks you are listening to the wrong people.
Shar9,
I belong to one group. I have heard--repeatedly--that there is more than one other. I do not belong to any other. The URL to the place where I post was already listed in this thread (forgive me, but I haven't had coffee yet and I am not feeling well at all this morning).
Mentecky,
"No one in these "agencies" thinks about the fallout from their actions." I do. I have many times argued against presumptions of guilt, both on the ez board and on the eBay Trust and Safety Board. I have pointed out that the people accused of various offenses have no logical reason for having committed them
http://remarq.ebay.com/ebay/transcript.asp?g=discuss%2Eebay%2Etrust%2Eand%2Esafety&tn=37276&sh=03195bcc10d509dc&idx=0
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toyranch-07
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posted on November 13, 2000 06:55:12 AM
Shar~
I don't even know what EDP is...
http://www.millionauctionmarch.com/
[email protected]
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shar9
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posted on November 13, 2000 06:57:43 AM
Goodmorning isworeiwouldneverdothis
I am sorry you are not feeling well and can fully understand the need for coffee before being able to function.
I have searched through this thread 3 times and have not found the url except for the fraud one you suggested another read. Thinking this might be it I tried I don't get a page to come up but I am also thinking that this isn't the url you were speaking of.
I will also say that you and others in your group may be some of the most respected sellers on ebay. Maybe I know each and everyone of you/group and would respect you so much that "I" would feel safe but do you understand that just because I might know the whole group is for example, that the next person may not know you from Joe Blow down the street so it would not mean a thing and there is no recourse because who do they/me contact?
If this group is wrong, where does the seller/buyer go to get his/her reputation back? Who tells their customers that they were falsely accused by a group that they don't know? An "OOPs" does not feed their family.
I will admit to being a complete novice and maybe this is a wonderful idea (doubtful but) but as such these are serious questions that I have.
I will thank you for being here though and hope you feel better soon.
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HJW
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posted on November 13, 2000 08:49:06 AM
Radh/Bobbysoxer,
Since you have a lot of experience on ebay, where do you recommend
sellers go to have their problems addressed concerning suspected
shilling and to resolve false accusations from these new detective groups?
Helen
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Buffaloguy
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posted on November 13, 2000 09:14:30 AM
I think you know what the right thing is to do Toy there is no question about that. If your confused thinking you are doing us all a public service by being there your not ! You are one of the few I have trusted along the trail but I must admit that is wearing thin. This group will end up having their ass sued off in time. Any one that has been harassed or dogged by this bunch please email me I know right what to do. Oh yea I forgot to mention I had my ebay ID pulled twice and a not so nice email yesterday. BIG DEAL ! BRING IT ON !!
[email protected]
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kitsch1
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posted on November 13, 2000 09:26:04 AM
Buff,
What was the not so nice email about? Like a threat?
Gingertree,
I may have put that wrong. I think you and your group have obviously caused people to "deputize" themselves then. But any way you put it I have seen some scary examples of why this group should not exist.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/[email protected]/
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fred
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posted on November 13, 2000 09:27:17 AM
I'm an internet buyer. I have said this many times before. I'm also a registered user at eBay & was a user before registration was required. I'm also a registered user at 12 other auction sites.
I'm a supporter of all phases of internet buying & selling.
This is my own thoughts, on independent shill hunters, Detectives and Posses over the years.
My thoughts go back to last bot raid of user information on eBay.
The hanging of good sellers & buyers because they live in the same area. Is it true, that is now one of the features I can use at eBay? Area buying.
The best way to have a Posse work, is to have splinter groups. The good & bad belong to the same group incognito. You can get a hell of a lot of user info & still cover all the bases.
What is done with those lists they have compiled? Are they sold to the highest bidder, to use with a bot to request more info. Naa it couldn't be just for that! maybe the IRS, lots of money there!
" The road to hell is paved with good intentions".
Fred
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bhearsch
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posted on November 13, 2000 10:24:11 AM
shar9, the eBay Dectective Agency (EDA) is the same group as the eAuction Detective Agency. They changed their name some time ago and I'm afraid the name confusion in this thread is my fault. You can find the URL by looking at my post on page 2 which I just edited to clarify the name change.
I hope that clears up the misunderstanding.
Blanche
[ edited by bhearsch on Nov 13, 2000 10:29 AM ]
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codasaurus
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posted on November 13, 2000 12:17:53 PM
I'm probably one of those folks that Buffalo refers to as an eBay detective from the "old days".
I would often see a post on the eBay Q&A that asserted some "fact" which, when I went and looked at the userid history; feedback; bidding history or listing history, didn't seem to justify the conclusion of the poster.
Back in those days, I would post what I had found in the publicly available information and what my conclusions were. And if I thought that wrongdoing was involved, I did not hesitate to report my beliefs to eBay.
I attempted, on a very few occasions to email a seller directly with my concerns in the hopes that they would "clean up their act" voluntarily. These attempts generally were met with scornful emails and occasional interference in auctions I would bid on. So I stopped giving the seller in these types of situations the benefit of the doubt and just reported them to eBay.
I've come to the conclusion that there is no point in emailing someone who you believe is doing something wrong on eBay. I believe that anyone else who has spent any time as an "eBay detective" would not have written the email that Mentecky's buyer received. Or the email that another buyer received a week or so ago that purported to come from the "eBay Detective Agency" or whatever it is now named.
I do believe that there are a number of folks out there who have good reason to hate the "eBay detectives" and who take great satisfaction in portraying these people as a bunch of no lifeers who only find meaning in terrorizing others.
I suspect that the emails that contain threats about someone being a shill and what is going to happen to them are very probably forgeries by folks out to even the score for what they feel was someone helping to put an end to their own (objectionable) activities.
It is interesting that in this thread and the previous thread, no independently verifiable proof has been offered as to the origin of the emails.
The other thread said the email was traced to a kiosk in San Francisco. This thread's only proof is a statement by Mentecky that they traced the header of the email back to someone. I don't doubt anyone in what they say. But I don't believe anyone in what they say without being able to verify for myself what they have said.
As I requested in the other thread, I would like to see posted publicly the headers of these emails.
Facts that are not independently verifiable are NOT facts.
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