posted on November 11, 2000 10:59:30 PM
OK. I bid on an item -- a book -- and did not notice that the seller required to be paid by only PayPal or Billpoint. I am not a member of either, and have no intentions of joining. I'm not looking to be talked into joining either.
This book was a childhood favorite for which I've been looking for a while now, and I stumbled across it about 4 hours before the auction ended. I got excited, and didn't snipe it (as is usually my habit), but placed a proxy bid immediately. I won the book at the opening bid of $19.99.
The seller was VERY clear in her listing that she only accepted these methods of payment -- to point of saying, "If you can't pay this way, DON'T BID." I missed it. I goofed. Out of hundreds (thousands?) of auctions I've bid on in the past few years, this is the first that required payment by either PayPal or Billpoint.
I just got the EOA notice from the seller today, and of course it spelled out that she would only accept PayPal or Billpoint payments. I emailed back, apologized for making the mistake of not reading her listing carefully enuf, and politely asked if there was any other way I could make payment. She replied (per her VERY clear auction TOS) that she would not accept money orders, cashiers checks, personal checks, or cash; payment MUST be made thru PayPal or Billpoint.
So, here I am - a deadbeat. I'm trying to compose an email to send back to her. Her email to me pointed out (in a very polite way) that she was now "on the hook" for eBay's listing fees and the FVF. Of course I understand she can recoup the FVF from eBay, but there's a basic listing fee that she'll have to pay. I'm not a seller and I don't understand all the intricacies of selling, though I've picked up a lot here at AW. Here's my questions:
1) What's the actual amount that this seller has lost out-of-pocket? What's the listing fee, assuming no extra "bells and whistles"?
2) What does eBay require a seller to do to recoup the final value fee? Does she have to send me an official eBay NPB notice? Does she have to leave a negative feedback for me?
3) Just out of curiosity - because I do respect a seller's right to set whatever TOS she likes - why would a seller not accept MO's or cash? I also find it curious that she hasn't divulged to me her name or address. I'm a little uncomfortable doing business with an eBay seller who won't even tell me her name.
Please! No "hogpile on triplesnack!" I know I made a mistake. Would just like a little constructive criticism on what's the best way to make this right. Thanks!
posted on November 11, 2000 11:21:34 PM
Hi triplesnack: You do not have to be a member of Billpoint to pay that way. My husband paid for an auction this evening and all they request is your Visa or Mastercard # and your name and address. The seller does not get your CC#. It is encrypted and safe and a very easy way to pay.
posted on November 11, 2000 11:23:43 PM
You don't have to "join" Billpoint in order to use Billpoint. If you have a credit card, you can pay in just a few minutes.
posted on November 11, 2000 11:37:57 PM
Hi triplesnack!
Others above are right -- you don't have to join Billpoint to pay that way, you only need to have a CC.
But to answer your questions...
1) The listing fee for an item starting at $19.99 without a reserve would be 50 cents, assuming it was listed in only one category with no extras.
2) To recoup the final value fee, the seller needs to wait at least seven days, file an NPB, then wait at least another ten days and file for return of the FVF.
3) Some sellers only accept online payments now because it's a lot more convenient than having to wait for a check or money order, wonder if the check will clear etc. I've wished that every single one of my bidders would use PayPal just because I don't have to sit around and wait and wonder whether the person will be a deadbeat, pass a bad check, or have payment lost in the mail. Anonymity could be another reason, though it is a little odd that she won't tell you her name. Maybe she had a bad experience in the past and is extra cautious now? A book doesn't seem like a likely scam item.
posted on November 11, 2000 11:52:40 PM
Well if your not interested in giving out your CC info to pay, then politely email her back and say you will not be paying for the item and she can relist the book at her convience. Also state that you are more than willing to pay by M.O. ( this would be best alternative).
Other than that prepare for neg and just respond that you made a mistake in bidding with out reading first.
Ain't Life Grand...
posted on November 12, 2000 12:08:20 AM
Hi all! Thanks much for the replies.
I've read enuf about PayPal here at AW that I'm pretty sure I don't want to deal with them at this point.
My reluctance about Billpoint I guess is pretty much linked to what I've heard about PayPal - though I know they're not affiliated, and that they're not even exactly the same thing. I freely admit I'm pretty ignorant about Billpoint.
I guess with CC's I'm a little reluctant to use them when it seems pretty clear I'm being added to a "database." I've only had a credit card for a couple of years (and I'm almost 40, go figure) so I'm still a little leery of security concerns with them. And the screen that eBay wants me to fill out for a Billpoint payment sure seems like I'm being added to their database.
RainyBear I guess I'm not too worried about getting scammed, this seller has a feedback rating of almost 100 with only a couple of non-worrisome negs. And it did occur to me that she (I'm even guessing on gender here, I'm inferring "she" from her eBay handle) might want to be anonymous because of a previous bad experience - but I'm still uncomfortable dealing with someone who's anonymous. Can't she get a PO box, and a company name, if it's really that much of a concern? I guess it seems to me if someone is gonna get my name & address, it's only fair I get theirs in return.
twelvepole Hi! Well that is what I was considering doing. I already made it clear I would gladly and quickly pay by MO, cashier's check, personal check, or cash via registered mail, and she has rejected all those options. (My feedback on this User ID - and I have several - is 150+, if that matters.) Why someone would reject cash is beyond me???? Except if they wish to remain wholly anonymous in the transaction. Which, although I don't really expect to be scammed in this case, rankles me.
I was considering offering to reimburse her for the eBay fees, but the only way I could see to do it was via one of the methods she's already said are not acceptable for payment.
Yeah, I'm a little freaky when it comes to CC payments on line. Not rational perhaps. But like I say, I've completed hundreds of eBay transactions, and not needed a CC yet.
I guess maybe I'm reluctantly considering Billpoint.
posted on November 12, 2000 12:19:30 AM
Try BillPoint.
Like others said, you join nothing. Seller causes a BillPoint email invoice to magically appear in your mailbox. You click on a link- takes you to a page that allows you to pay with CC (secure server and all that). Easy.
Seller gets notified right away that you're paid- and many sellers ship right away.
AND- if you pay with Visa, you get $1 back from BillPoint.
posted on November 12, 2000 12:42:57 AM
You made a mistake, and promptly admitted it to her. (S)he has the choice of working with you or eating the 50¢ and relisting. Looks like she's choosing to eat the 50¢ and relist to me. Why, I don't know, but maybe she does have what she thinks are good reasons for her TOS. There have been cases where I would rather turn down the sale and stick by my TOS, so I can't really blame her.
If she negs you, it's not exactly undeserved. No big deal, one neg in your profile certainly won't hurt you at this point. BUT a little flexibility from ONE of you would save the transaction. I would think she would be the flexible one since she needs you more than you need her. (Another one of those items, no matter how "rare" will ALWAYS come along!) But if she can't be flexible and you can't either, that's just life.
I have never deadbeated, but if I were in your shoes I think I would go ahead and lose my "deadbeat virginity". But then I have a personal vendetta against wells fargo bank & I wouldn't touch PayPal with YOUR money, let alone mine.
posted on November 12, 2000 12:58:22 AM
Hi! I've got a credit card! I like to purchase things on eBay and give out my personal info and credit card numbers to everyone, but will not, **QUOTE** WILL NOT, give it out to a secure third party like Paypal or Billpoint!
Yes, I'd rather that a thousand strangers on eBay learn all about my private info and credit card info than to give it to just one place. Afterall, isn't my private information safer with a thousand strangers than one web site that can be legally prosecuted for misconduct?
posted on November 12, 2000 05:43:22 AM
The seller may also require "instant" payment methods because she can't sit on her inventory for weeks waiting for people to pay. So not only have you cost her the listing fee, but the ability to use the money you would have paid until she relists the item and collects from the next person. It's not just a matter of "oh, just relist it". It's also a matter of cash flow. I've got a bidder right now who owes me some $300 - I've sent out the reminder, the NPB goes out tomorrow. If she mails me payment tonight it's going to be Friday before I get it; if she hadn't sat on her hands, I would've had payment this past Friday at the latest. If I have to relist, it's going to be another two weeks and more - and that's assuming the next bidder doesn't deadbeat as well. Meanwhile, I've got a pile of bills to send out myself, and that $300 would've come in pretty handy. Not necessarily your seller's situation, but something to think about.
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Nov 12, 2000 05:44 AM ]
posted on November 12, 2000 06:18:38 AM
Well, while I agree that you'll have to accept the consequences of not reading her TOS, I still can't believe a seller would turn down CASH.
That's unAmerican!!!
Another thing you might consider doing, is asking another ebay user to pay this seller thru PP with their account, and then you could pay them. She certainly couldn't object to you paying this way. And your ebay paying friend could just make a note in the payment form that this payment is for auction # purchased from .....(you).
posted on November 12, 2000 06:29:33 AM
Hi Triplesnack!
I'm new to posting here and I hope you don't mind my sticking my nose in.
Have you considered a Billpoint eCheck?
Your seller will get his/her online payment and you get to use a checking account rather than a credit card. You may want to look into that option.
posted on November 12, 2000 06:49:25 AM
I believe every buyer is entitled to the full name and mailing address of the seller, even when they intend to pay via PayPal or any other online payment service.
I always wait until the buyer sends me an end-of-auction (EOA) notice that contains their full name and mailing address before heading over to PayPal, et. al., to make the payment.
The opportunity for fraud is already quite high on both sides of a transaction when using these online payment services; full disclosure between parties is important.
posted on November 12, 2000 07:02:44 AM
You can always request the seller's contact information through eBay. Something doesn't sound quite right here, and while you may be dealing with someone who is inordinately paranoid, it never hurts to get as much info as you can. I would certainly encourage you to pay via Billpoint, rather than taking a negative.
The seller will have to file a NPB on you to recover her FVF, but she can choose to let you off the hook by indicating that the sale was cancelled by mutual consent. This will allow her to file for FVF credit immediately, rather than waiting 10 days. Given her mindset as evidenced here, I feel that's unlikely, although she may do that if you offer to pay her for the listing fee and she can recoup her FVF immediately.
posted on November 12, 2000 07:12:58 AM
triplesnack - You said, ".........but I'm still uncomfortable dealing with someone who's anonymous."
Are you aware, as a buyer (or ebay user - for that matter) that you are entitled to pull up your sellers personal user information? Doing so would give you her/his name, phone number, city and state. While you wouldn't have her home/business address, would that together with their feedback rating, make you feel a little more comfortable in dealing with them? Could really upset them too. Obviously your call.
Or maybe, if you're willing, a call to them might help work this situation out.
posted on November 12, 2000 08:56:14 AM
I once "deadbeated".
I won an item for about $400. After I won it, I came to understand that I needed a $1000 item to make this one truly useful. I didn't plan to buy the $1000 item.
I figured this all out within about 1.5 days of the end of the auction.
I sent seller an email expressing my intention to not buy the item. I offered $20 cash to cover the nusiance, and suggested that it would also cover the FVF. Seller demanded my phone number. I gave seller the phone number, and seller called.
Seller was thinking "you know, the guy sounds like he's really gonna send the twenty". Seller's wife was on the other line. Seller's wife was sounding like "the guy ain't gonna send no $20, and the only satisfaction I'm getting out of this deal is to read this deadbeat buyer the riot act".
It all seemed fair to me; if part of the price to get out of the deal responsibly was listening to the riot act, I'd listen. "Don't be bidding on stuff you don't really understand". "Ok, this is the first time, but I'm sure learning a lesson here". I listened to seller's and seller's wife's for about 5 minutes, their phone bill.
Then I sent them their $20, in cash.
Never heard any more about it.
They relisted the item. It went for $50 more than I had won it at.
sg52
posted on November 12, 2000 09:09:10 AM
I think part of the problem is that this seller won't accept anything except online payments, so if she wouldn't accept cash or a money order for the payment, why would she accept those for a refund of the fees?
I still say email once more or do as some said and pull the contact info and explain that she can accept payment in M.O. or cash or keep the item and have a nice day.
Borillar Some of us don't use a CC period! Not to strangers or anyone else. If I can't see your face, then you're not getting my CC number.
HCQ Something for you to think about...as a buyer why should I care how long it takes to a seller to resell something? Or to sell soemthing? I am curious with her limited payment options that she would sell anything at all.
Ain't Life Grand...
I agree that a phone call might help to resolve this issue.
But the situation is very different.
You refused to pay. Triplesnack, on the other hand, has offered to
pay full price but this option has been rejected by the seller.
So I don't think that you can associate his good name with "deadbeater."
posted on November 12, 2000 09:44:56 AM
Please consider that there may be a number of very valid reasons that this seller only accepts online payments.
Perhaps she doesn't or can't drive and can not easily get to a bank to make deposits or to a post office to cash a money order. She just might be shut-in.
I've been shopping online since Prodigy was introduced. I've given my credit card number to everyone from Amazon to Toys R Us. I've never had an instance of fraud or theft as a result.
I do almost all of my holiday shopping online and have for years.
Billpoint is every bit as safe to use and you don't have to join. Give it a try!
posted on November 12, 2000 10:10:11 AM
Have you considered the option of opening a PayPal account, funding it with a money order, paying for the auction with PayPal, and then closing the account?
Sure it's a hassle. And it will take however long it takes for PayPal to receive the money order before the seller gets the money. But it would allow the two of you to complete the deal according to your own convictions and leave positive feedback for each other. And you have already said that you really want the book.
posted on November 12, 2000 10:28:04 AM
Perhaps the seller is reluctant to give you her name and address at this time because by doing so she may think that you will choose to just mail her the funds by check, cash or money order. Others may have already ignored her terms and done this to her when she divulged her address right away? This may be one way that she has of controlling her terms of sale.
posted on November 12, 2000 10:33:34 AM
I do at the moment accept checks and money orders along with payment services for my buyer but I have been concidering seriously only accepting online payments.
With BillPoint paypal and propay so common and easy to use and heck with billpoint and propay buyers dont even have to sign up for the service just make the payment.
today even if you want to buy off a TV ad you have to write or call and give a debit or credit card number to pay very few offer the send your check option any more.
keep in mind if you use billpoint the seller dont get your credit card number you send it to BillPoint they are the merchant you get charge back rights on your purchase and the seller is required to offer a return policy.
I believe I would choose the BillPoint payment over check or money order to some degree keeps the seller honest by haveing them offer a return policy of some type also I have the credit card protection of a charge back which can usually be completed with one phone call in a matter of days.
posted on November 12, 2000 12:17:22 PMtwelvepole you said to HCQ: "HCQ Something for you to think about...as a buyer why should I care how long it takes to a seller to resell something? Or to sell soemthing? I am curious with her limited payment options that she would sell anything at all."
I'm not HCQ, but I wanted to respond to this. You should care how much you are inconveniencing a seller when you failed to read the terms, because you are now costing the seller time. If you'd (the general "you" here, okay?) read carefully it wouldn't be an issue. To not give a darn is just inconsiderate when the issue is the buyer's fault in the first place.
I don't like to limit payment options too much, myself (though I will be soon discontinuing PayPal), but I can also imagine many reason why this seller won't accept payments other than online payments. Perhaps she lives in a rural area. Perhaps she's disabled and this is the only way she can make money from home and it's very difficult for her to have to drive to the bank to cash checks/money orders.
Personally, I have a situation where my husband's ex is a certified psycho stalker bunny-boiling type, if I thought she were able to 'find' us via eBay you're darn right I might go to such extremes myself, to keep her away! You just never know what the seller's reasons are and if it's stated in the TOS it needs to be respected.
If it were me, I'd pay through Billpoint (or perhaps offer to pay via some method I were more comfortable with, like Achex, if she'd accept that?) and chalk it up to a lesson learned.
posted on November 12, 2000 02:01:35 PM
I remember a seller who had been a long-time poster here on AW. She went travelling for the summer, as I recall, taking all her inventory with her. Because she wouldn't be at home to pick up checks and money orders, she required electronic payments (which she could pick up electronically). She sent the merchandise from whatever post office she was near at the time she got the electronic payment.
Triplesnack, if this is a book you really want (been there, done that for a childhood book myself), you really might want to try out Billpoint.
posted on November 12, 2000 04:19:19 PM
Geez, if she really does all this to keep her privacy, think how she's going to feel when triplesnack CALLS her to discuss this situation?!
Okay, you've tried every way possible & she is sticking by her TOS. Either pay her using her stated, requested ways or walk away & take whatever is about to come your way.
I think calling her could just make this situation go from bad to worse.
edited to add..I hate to hear you missing out on something which obviously means one heck of a lot to you. Listen, I'll be glad to pay her via PayPal for you & you can send me a check, money order, cash, cheese, whatever. Email me here at AW & I'll be glad to help..I have plenty of $$$ in my PayPal account to pay her the amount right now.
posted on November 12, 2000 04:28:09 PM
As a seller, I would be disappointed to lose the sale, but I would respect and appreciate someone who alerted me at once that the deal wasn't going to happen. I'd prefer that to the deadbeat who drags it out for 6 weeks and goes NARU before I can neg them.
As a reader of FB, if you got a negative for non-payment and replied "my fault, I goofed!" I would respect that, too, and take a look at your whole FB record, which sounds excellent.
