posted on November 27, 2000 09:02:48 PM new
Greetings Earthlings
I may have picked up on a new trick being employed by some unscrupulous buyers. Maybe overstated, maybe just my imagination, but I thought I'd run it by the experts and see what's to be said about it.
Coincidence?, In my system (and I'm not looking for any critiques about it) for handling auctions end, I send out an EOA which (in part) plainly requests for the winners address so that I might prepare their package and print an address label. This is basically a solicitation of an acknowledment and most times serves as pause that I may pack the sold items, have them weighed and be ready to respond when I recieve their info., When they reply, I send the invoice, and the transaction is now in progress. If they don't give their address when they reply I still politely send them an invoice (for heavy items I have to have their address to quote shipping), with another request for the info I need.
Twice this month, despite asking up to three times (in one case a second EOA had to be sent to a non respondant), the buyer didn't (or wouldn't) send his address. It has happened many, many times before, but these two caught my attention. Why?
Well it seems both of these were from my home state. This is signifigant because it is stated in my ad that residents must pay 6% sales tax. Now, what happens is, I get their check or other form of payment and finally see their address, I now have the distinction of seeming paultry by having to ask them to send the extra $! I don't think I will/would unless it was an expensive item, and hence, eat the tax. I don't have a large percentage of home state sales, but the sales taxes I pay are in the hundrdeds and it adds up quickly.
So is it just coincidence, or does it seem like a scheme: [Don't let a home state seller have your address until the day they get your money (after the seller "quoted" you a total on their invoice), to avoid paying sales tax].
Or am I just suffering from the dementia of the current rampage of the deadbeatorrhea plague.
posted on November 27, 2000 09:40:12 PM newkurt...That would be very interesting, indeed....
All that to save a few pennies to a few dollars? Next thing you know, they'll want to drive to your house, to save on shipping... Maybe you could make them some big sales...hmmmm....
posted on November 27, 2000 10:59:36 PM new
For what it is worht, when Buyers intentionally shortchange me, I e-mail them for the extra pennies. Am I the jerk? Not at all! Someone is wanting to screw ME over and I refuse to go along with it. Besides - if you demand payment in full, then they won't be so quick to do this to the next Seller.
posted on November 27, 2000 11:28:08 PM new
About a month and a half ago I sold a piece for about $200.00. I contact winner with my address, and ask for his so that I can figure postage, but never hear back from him. After a few days, I receive a check in the mail. The excess is only enough to send the pkg. parcel post and insure for $50.00. He emails me in complaint saying he'll never buy from me again. Go figure.
posted on November 27, 2000 11:41:10 PM new
But do you think it is intentional or just a coincidence that the 2 times it happened this month were both from my state?
Borillar, my sentiments at first, but being the true tight wad i am I reckoned that I may stand to gain more in repeat business than what I would collect for the taxes.
Shosh, But don't half the threads here boil down to saving pennies! I've actually delivered 4 ebay items personally, refused payment on all and made one very nice freind.
Edited to remove some poor html
[ edited by long_gone on Nov 27, 2000 11:44 PM ]
posted on November 28, 2000 01:51:42 AM new
Consider that the customer just purchased an item from you that you might not have sold otherwise and consider it a cost of doing business to give yourself peace. You have made a sale - and you don't have to worry about shoplifting, about employee theft, and the bidder is a buyer first - a bidder second. That is what seems to get lost when these boards continually focus on "deadbeat bidders".
posted on November 28, 2000 02:07:14 AM new
Well, I've taken heat from posters here because I forgot, in one auction description, to state that CA residents must add 8.25% sales tax. Put it in your item description and eliminate guesswork.
This month's Turkey Bidder award goes to the customer who sent payment along with a note saying, "I'm not a CA resident. I'm just working here for a few months." He didn't include the sales tax.
Runner-up goes to my New Zealand customer who sent payment in NZ currency (bills and coins) along with a note saying "I hope you don't mind, a money order was too expensive."
posted on November 28, 2000 03:38:35 AM new
long_gone -
Do NOT send a total until you have a shipping address. If they are playing hard to get, request the USERINFO from eBay and calculate based on that. It DOES give state of residence and could save you some hassle.
"I now have the distinction of seeming paultry by having to ask them to send the extra $! I don't think I will/would unless it was an expensive item, and hence, eat the tax."
I would not send them the item until they have paid in full. Ask them to FAX you a copy of their state tax exemption certificate (if they have one), and remind tham that the state requires you to collect the tax, and that the payment in full is due before you ship the item.
Could you ship by a cheaper method and get the money that way?
posted on November 28, 2000 05:19:29 AM new
I see this in the live world all the time. "Oh, I have to pay sales tax?" With some of the things I have seen over the years, I have no problem assuming this is, as suspected, an attempt to avoid the tax.
Prominently stating "sales tax collected on shipments to state x" would help; if you charge actual shipping, they would have to supply the address to have you compute total.
I would pull info. I doubt very much you will be losing a repeat customer (that you would want as a repeat customer).
posted on November 28, 2000 05:24:26 AM new
Might be helpful to add to the description Shipments to California addresses must add 8.25% sales tax as opposed to California residents must add 8.25% sales tax, or whatever the state.
We have it even worse. We have to collect sales tax for the city *and* the state if we ship to an address in our city.
We don't say "resident" we always say tax is collected according to the delivery address.
posted on November 28, 2000 07:09:32 AM new
My personal opinion is sellers should just pay the tax. Buyers buy primarily to get a "deal" and it's just psychological, but it seems more of a bargain not to have to pay tax.
twinsoft, In CA, tax is charged based on where the buyer lives, not where the seller lives. Thankfully, in my part of CA, tax is 7.25% and that is the amount you would have to pay.
posted on November 28, 2000 08:06:09 AM newtwinsoft, In CA, tax is charged based on where the buyer lives, not where the seller lives. Thankfully, in my part of CA, tax is 7.25% and that is the amount
Not so london4. The sales tax must be calculated according to the County from which the sale originates from. Say I was selling at a show in your county, it is true that I would charge 7.25%, as the sale is taking place in your county. BUT if I am shipping from MY county, I am obligated to charge the applicable tax for my county, which is 7.75%, the same as if you walked into my store here and purchased it. Check with the State Board of Equalization on this.
posted on November 28, 2000 08:43:28 AM new
Then there was the lady from Oregon who came into my shop in the midwest. Told me that she does not pay sales tax in Oregon. That means she would not have to pay sales tax for her purchases anywhere she goes.
She refused to complete the sale. Said no one had been charging her tax since she was from Oregon. ?????
posted on November 28, 2000 08:53:08 AM new
Seyms, I was afraid of that.
I think that while the suggetion of the cost of doing business has a ring of reality to it, every business I know of goes to great lengths to pare this cost down. No good business would just say, "oh well".
Unless I know quite surely that they are scammers, I'm still hesitant to hold their item until they pay the extra. If they do become repeat customers, I would, however, tack it to their next bill with an explanation and an "I'm sure you don't mind".
Pulling their contact info seems like a reasonable solution, after all, I have asked them at least twice.
As far as the question of whether the possibly shifty customer would be a desirable repeat, I say that while the customer might not be welcome back, their money always is.
I wouldn't attempt to compensate by, say, shipping a cheaper way. I will not waiver from my TOS or agreement for any reason. MAYBE if I knew without a doubt that they were really trying to screw me somehow...
Paying someones taxes for them so they can enjoy a bargain simply doesn't fit my plan. I hate paying my own taxes let alone someone elses. Lately on ebay, everything seems to be a bargain as it is.
posted on November 28, 2000 08:58:59 AM new
I thought that there were just 2 states in the US that do not charge sales tax, Delaware and one in New England (New Hampshire, I think).
If I remember correctly, if I go to DE and buy something sans sales tax, MD expects me to declare this on my taxes and pay them owed sales tax. However, I don't know of anyone who actually does this. I think that if that would actually be enforced, then Maryland can expect sales tax refunds for people who buy in PA or VA.
Edited to add that it looks like I never knew about Montana and Oregon being tax-free shopping as well. But the Oregon Woman is full of BS.
[ edited by mikeylou on Nov 28, 2000 09:05 AM ]
posted on November 28, 2000 09:20:18 AM new
One of the oldest tricks in the antique shops was for the SELLER to charge sales tax then NOT report it to the Dep.Of Revenue ,I.R.S., (mostly on cash deals). You could usually tell because the person would "forget to give" the buyer a receipt.
If you charge taxes, then always prepare to give a receipt, and always be ready with a valid tax number: just in case the IRS should ask.
posted on November 28, 2000 09:51:33 AM new
feralboy, what are you talking about? Sales tax is governed by the individual states, not the federal government. The IRS does not collect sales tax, and are not involved in the policing of collection and remittance.
posted on November 28, 2000 10:13:59 AM new
I am surprised that the feeling seems to be that seller should pay the tax. And I don't think the originator of this thread is paranoid - the older I get the more cynical I get - and I have seen people do worse than this for even smaller returns.
Is there a percentage that is "allowable"? If there final bid was $122 and they sent $120 would you accept that? What about $110?
Would these buyers be just as forgiving if I only sent eleven spoons instead of the dozen they bid on?
posted on November 28, 2000 10:21:02 AM new
Well, this not necessarily a "new" trick. I have had two people in my state attempt avoiding paying sales tax. Once a couple years ago and one about eight months ago.
I do not give out my mailing address until I receive the buyers zipcode or mailing address (with the explaination in my eoa email as to why -sales tax & country postage calculation).
I used to send my mailing address out in my eoa until the first tax-dodging buyer sent me a check, shortchanging me. He sent a second check for about 50¢.
I wouldn't do that to a seller when I buy.
The last one in the course of emails (back and forth) tell me that since he was a business he didn't have to pay sales tax. He was going to provide me his information with payment, but I called the internal revenue and found out he needed to have a certificate of sale. He did finally pay. I withheld my mailing address until we came to an agreement after two weeks or more!
posted on November 28, 2000 10:33:23 AM new
Oregon does not pay sales tax.
When a person (residing in a sales tax-free state) goes into a physical store (located in a sales tax-paying state) to purchase items, the customer needs to do paperwork.
The paperwork I am fimilar with is simply a sales reciept giving the name and physical address of customer and the items bought.
The items need to be ones that they will use in the tax-paying state such as car repair items and whatever else. However if the clerk notices that the items are things that are being purchased to be taken back home then the tax-free state resident must pay sales tax. So it is a judgement call on what the customer is using in the tax paying state or what is being taken back.
I am sure a dining set that will go "real good in our tax free state home deco, honey" will not be used in the taxed state.
EDITED TO SAY: Yes there are some Oregon residents who do have the attitude they don't pay taxes ever, but they do *sometimes* and they know it.
The few try to take advantage of those who don't know better, or use intimidation tactics to get the business to sell without tax.
When confronted with someone who knows vast majority of the time they back off fast.
Also ID is needed to prove they reside in the tax-free state.
posted on November 28, 2000 10:35:12 AM new
Actually the Oregon woman is RIGHT.
I live in Oregon and we do not pay sales tax, and when I buy in other states, all I have to do is show my driver's license and in some situations, my business card, and vendors are not required to charge me sales tax in their state.
However, I do have a little more class than to fuss about it if a vendor is uncomfortable or unknowledgeable about the procedure.
posted on November 28, 2000 10:58:04 AM new
LisaB, if you want to purchase something from me here in California, you must pay sales tax. I don't care whether you live in Oregon or if you show me a drivers license. The State Board of Equalization here in California doesn't care either. THEY require me to collect sales tax from you for a purchase here in California. Sales tax is a state regulated agency. The only exception is if you provide a resale certificate from California, or any other state. You will then sign an affidavit attesting to the fact that you hold a sales tax certificate from YOUR state, which lets me off the hook with the California State Board of Equalization. I must, upon demand, (such as an audit) provide the State Board of Equalization your documentation as to why I didn't collect sales tax from you. If I fail to collect sales tax without proper documentation, I will have to pay it myself, risk a fine, and/or lose my own resale status. And the State Board of Equalization does not accept an out of state drivers license as the proper documentation to avoid paying sales tax. While Oregon doesn't have sales tax, California does, and if you buy here, you must pay it. Oregon has no say in the matter.
posted on November 28, 2000 11:01:16 AM new
Thanks for the info! Apparently it varies from state to state on how to handle tax-free state resident purchases!
The morale of the story is to check with your Dept of Revenue!
posted on November 28, 2000 11:32:54 AM newlong_gone....I did not mean to down-grade the amount...that is why I said "pennies to dollars", as a big sale can involve quite a few Tax dollars...
sorry if my post was misleading.
[b[twin[/b]...Really? Coins from NZ? Eh! you might want to re-sell them on Ebay...
Our county tax in Alameda County, California is 8.25%...Still better than in Louisiana, in Pontchartrain...in 1991, it was 11%!!! Ouch!
******************** Gosh Shosh!
posted on November 28, 2000 11:39:29 AM new
Hello Whatsurdeal,
You seem to be of the opinion that it is perfectly legitimate for the buyer to expect the seller to bear the cost of sales tax because the seller doesn't have some of the traditional costs of doing business such as theft (external or internal).
Not paying the sales tax when you pay for your purchase is akin to re-negotiating the deal after the fact. The seller's location is clearly indicated in the auction listing and by bidding you implicitly accept that you will pay the sales tax.
And I don't see what your comment about deadbeat bidders has to do with the topic of avoiding sales tax.
posted on November 28, 2000 11:52:46 AM new
borillar ... "For what it is worht, when Buyers intentionally shortchange me, I e-mail them for the extra pennies."
I don't sell enough to make this an issue, but and if anybody wants to disagree with you, then I suggest they all send me their insignificant pennies. I'll be a millionaire in no time! I have paid US cash for the last few auctions I have won, and in all cases, I round up to the nearest dollar. It's 'safer' than mailing change!
posted on November 28, 2000 12:17:10 PM new
canvid13 - "I'm in Canada. We have a 15% gst tax."
You must be in a different part of Canada. Either that, or things changed overnight after the election! In my part of Canada, the GST is 7%, as it is in EVERY other part of Canada, except your part, that is
posted on November 28, 2000 12:52:29 PM newlong_gone you said, "Borillar, my sentiments at first, but being the true tight wad i am I reckoned that I may stand to gain more in repeat business than what I would collect for the taxes."
Some people tend to think that a business runs best when accepting everyone as a customer. But I can tell you from a long career of business that it ain't so! People who purposely try to cheat you is not worth dealing with. Once you allow them to cheat you, then they'll continue to cheat you on every purchase after that -- and up the ante from time to time too! Eventually, your backside gets sore from all the prodding and you take a stand and kick them out. Better sooner than later in my experience.
Maybe you could make them some big sales...hmmmm....
