posted on November 28, 2000 11:56:21 AM new
Won (2) ornament auctions from a powerseller. I waited two days to hear from her and finally wrote and requested invoice.Her auction listing stated actual shipping charges and did not include any other information on shipping. Her acutal shipping charges turn out to be $8.55 with insurance of course! I have a hard time accepting $8.55 shipping on a $20 puchase. It doesn't even cross into a different postal zone she's from Ind. and I'm from Wis.The only way that parcel will go over 2lbs is if she includes a brick in the box!
I've politely requested consideration on shipping charges.
I've won several ornament auctions from sellers all over the U.S. and this was the highest amount asked for shipping!
Since she wants to charge more than stated shipping charges I feel justified in not completing the transaction.
Anyone have any experince with trying to remove a neg from seller trying to gouge you on shipping charges?
posted on November 28, 2000 12:07:11 PM new
That sound awfully wrong!...
Still, did seller mention in the listing what the "actual" cost was going to be? and did you Email to ask?
You are correct: there is a whole bunch of listings stating "actual" cost, which turn out to be actual only for seller
I suppose you could back out of the deal, if you do not mind getting a retaliatory neg. Or complete it, then let seller know you will never again bid on their items...and to look up "actual", so they stop misrepresenting.
Make it a point from now on, to go to the online postal calculator, http://postcalc.usps.gov/, and figure your cost; Then you can confront seller with the true "actual" price.
******************** Gosh Shosh!
posted on November 28, 2000 12:15:06 PM new
If she said actual shipping charges, that is what it should be. I have sold ornaments also (in the boxes) and can easily ship 2 to 3 ornaments for $3.20 plus insurance .85, which comes out to 4.05. I have had only one problem with shipping charges (as a buyer) and that was with a power seller too. Perhaps some of the powersellers think little icon makes them 'special' and they can charge more. I don't think so.
posted on November 28, 2000 12:15:21 PM new
Hey Shosh,
Thanks for the positive comment. I think it's time to ask ebay sellers to live up to their promise of actual shipping. You know, it's not just a click off on the listing page, it means something to the person who is considering bidding on your item.
I feel it's worth it to make them squim for a minute or two when they read my email. I might just risk the negative.
I don't need a price calcualtor to know that christmas ornies don't weigh more than 2lbs and it shouldn't cost more than $4.05 to send them. I feel the seller is not "playing fair" and should be made to sit in time out for at least two minutes!"
posted on November 28, 2000 12:27:11 PM new
I am guilty somewhat of this. It seems every time I quote shipping, I even have a scale, It is less at the post office, I had one lady I quoted then went to po and it was like 76 cents left, I stuffed a 1.00 bill into the envelope, sent it off buyer negged me said there was no dollar, so I ended up send .76 by paypal, I got screwed as this was a very low dollar amount, Pissed me off..
Bon
posted on November 28, 2000 12:30:16 PM newmarvey, I agree with you 100% and I hope everything turns out ok. Unfortunately, some sellers like to play the semantics game. There was a thread not too long ago as to whether "actual shipping" means actual postage cost or whether actual shipping includes postage + handling + materials. Some of the sellers took the position that shipping costs include more than just the postage cost.
Hope your seller isn't one of these. I buy a lot of crystal ornaments and two can definitely be shipped for $3.20.
posted on November 28, 2000 12:30:20 PM new
Hi marvey,
That's too bad. I have to admit that I thought actual shipping meant just that until I read some threads here early on. Now when it says that I feel silly but I e them and ask what they mean by actual? If it is the exact postage and insurance and do they have a handling fee.
I don't pretend to be smart enough or experienced enough to be a seller but I do wish there were common definitions or something we could go by.
I don't care what a sellers shipping charges are. I just want to know so there will be no surprises for either of us. If I feel the charges for total shipping/h are too high I just skip on to find it elsewhere but it does mean asking in advance and now it is hard because I don't get to look ahead as I would like too.
posted on November 28, 2000 12:38:04 PM newI don't care what a sellers shipping charges are. I just want to know so there will be no surprises for either of us.
This would be a simple matter if eBay would only go to the trouble of putting into writing (a link on the auction page would be nice) what is expected of a seller who chooses to select the "actual shipping" option on the listing page. I'm not holding my breath.
posted on November 28, 2000 12:38:26 PM new
Wow! What a bum deal - I am an eBay seller, and I usually charge priority rates for items 2lb. and smaller... which I just recently found out is wrong too. Small light-weight items can go First Class for less money, and they travel safer than they do with priority, mixed in with all the larger packages. I didn't know this and the postal clerk told me at the time of mailing an item, so I went for it thinking that it would be safer. The buyer emailed me back a nasty letter that said I'd over charged her for shipping - so I offered to return her .25 cents (it came to $2.95) ..... so I understand that sometimes it can be a mistake... but....
$8.55 for two ornaments is ridiculous!! Have you tried to negotiate the shipping with the seller? Maybe that'll work, then just never buy from them again.
Geez, good luck in the future!! I leave nutral feedbacks for ppl who aren't cooperative but I get what I bid on. After reading all these posts here, I'm not so concerned about getting my feedback rating up there!
posted on November 28, 2000 12:38:54 PM new
Hey I'm a seller too and I've been there and done that! Not going to loose sleep over stealing 76 cents. My problem Is I usually UNDER charge. I NEVER ask the seller to send me more moola, I feel if I stated $5.00 shipping I will stick to it. I guess it just evens out over time and the 76 cents I overcharged you will go towards the other guys shipping.
This even happens to me when I have gone to the extradonary circumstances of packing my item up to be "offically" estimated by my post office. It happened today. Got an estimate to ship a print to Denmark, when I took it back to be shipped the postal clerk said this it too big to be small packet (same EXACT parcel as the week before!) has to go parcel post! $3.00 more please. What's a girl to do, ask the poor bidder from Denmark to send me another couple of bucks and wait another week. Not worth it.
I feel when your sale is for $20.00 and you ask almost $10.00 in shipping, it's too make up for your low sale. Not ACUTAL shipping.
posted on November 28, 2000 12:41:00 PM new
For my two-cents, I keep saying that eBay can fix an awfull lot of hardship between both Buyer and Seller if they include the shipping fees as part of the listing process, sorta like so:
If every Seller had to spit it out, then no one would end up complaining. I think that the only reason why eBay has never implemented such an easy fix-it is because they can't figure out how to charge fees to use it.
edited to make pic work
[ edited by Borillar on Nov 28, 2000 12:41 PM ]
posted on November 28, 2000 12:46:22 PM new
Mrpotatoeheadd you are the genius we all knew you were! No stated shipping charge for U.S. or your most common buyer, no listing. It should be right on the ebay listing form no questions asked.
I wouldn't care if this is what it acutally cost to ship the item in a careful and as George W would say,"prudent manner". I feel the seller should be able to state the pounds and ounces for that charge.
posted on November 28, 2000 01:19:04 PM new
I've been trying and trying to make this come out to $8.55 as "actual shipping cost", which to me is the amount you pay at the post office for postage, insurance, etc.
Even if she is charging to ship each ornament separately it would only come to $8.10 (3.20 + .85 x 2). If she was shipping each ornament separately and including delivery confirmation it would come to $8.80 (3.20 + .85 + .35 x 2).
I think I'd risk the neg on this one too - and of course leave the seller one as well. She's basically charging you double what she'll most likely be paying.
edited to add... I've sold a lot of glass ornaments in the past couple of years, and I could EASILY send two ornaments for under $5, and that would include double boxing, insurance and delivery confirmation.
[ edited by Joanne on Nov 28, 2000 01:22 PM ]
posted on November 28, 2000 01:36:04 PM newJoanne-
I've been trying and trying to make this come out to $8.55 as "actual shipping cost", which to me is the amount you pay at the post office for postage, insurance, etc.
The problem is... "actual shipping cost", as it relates to eBay auctions, is not defined anywhere. Your definition may sound reasonable to you (and I'm not saying it's not), but that doesn't mean that everybody you ask will agree with you. Maybe this seller is defining "actual shipping cost" as the total for shipping, insurance, packaging materials, gas to drive to the post office, reimbursement for time spent waiting in line, wear and tear on shoes, etc. etc. etc.
Until there is a requirement to conform to a specified set of rules in order to claim "actual shipping cost", that term will continue to be somewhat meaningless.
posted on November 28, 2000 02:03:24 PM new
I wonder if Ebay has it backwards... - ACTUAL = whatever seller wants to charge, and FIXED = Price Quoted on the Postal Calculator site...
I used to Email the link to the Potal Calculator showing the shipping cost, but based on comments from buyers, they seem to prefer a cut-and-paste from that site, of only the portion showing cost and breakdown of cost. That has worked very well for us.
Borillar - Even with a pre-formatted shipping choice, as you are showing it, there will often be an adjustment made to the quote, since different Zones prices differ...and Insurance has to be added at the end. It is a good idea, but then, bidders might hold seller to that figure and only that figure No room for adjustments...
******************** Gosh Shosh!
posted on November 28, 2000 03:57:39 PM newborillar the problem with your proposed form is that it leaves out the most concise statement of all: the fixed shipping charge.
I really like fixed when I buy. I don't have to wonder how seller is going to (mis)interpret anything. $5 for shipping. I can judge whether it sounds like a lot or not right up front.
I nearly always specifiy fixed when I sell. The only exceptions are very heavy items where it just makes a lot of difference.
posted on November 28, 2000 10:27:02 PM newsg52: please take a closer look at it. While certainly not perfect, it does make the Seller state what common shipping service they use and what is going to be charged. If there is a handling fee, then that is included as well.
A fixed rate is a problem for Buyers if they don't know how their winnings are going to be shipped. How many complaint threads on AW alone have there been this year about how a Seller states $3.20 for shipping and it arrives in a white paper envelope and a 33-cent first class stamp? I, for one, would much rather see it spelt out than be mislead into thinkinbg that I was paying for Priority, but was really 1st class and a *HUGE* Handling Fee!
If I would add to it, I would make some way that for those items that are heavy and/or bulky in weight, then the Seller ought to reveal the item's weight, the Seller's Zip Code, handling fee, and the Seller's suggested shipping company. At least that way, any Buyer could figure out how much that item was going to cost them for delivery.
posted on November 28, 2000 10:39:16 PM new
Marvey..did the seller mention HOW he was shipping. It is possible he was quoting UPS rates or some other service than USPS.
posted on November 28, 2000 11:11:40 PM new
Hi There,
You all have great ideas and they all have there place.
I think the best one has not showed up yet.
ASSUME NOTHING.
The only one looking out for you and your money on the net or in "real life" is you.
If you don't see any charges in a sale A. don't bid or B. ask what they are (then don't bid
I'm a bit jaded and don't buy much at eBay (for good reasons) but any time I ever had before I EVER place a bid on anything I'll e-mail the seller.
I may just ask about the wheather (not really) but it's just a test to see if this is the kind of person I want to deal with.
It dosn't matter much but i state in all my sales a fixed price (US ONLY) and describe that's bookrate, priority, 1st class etc.
I consistantly undercharge and thats ok. So is putting money back in the packages when I over charge.
posted on November 28, 2000 11:14:32 PM new
PS........ If it was me (and it's not) I would gladley take the negative (give one first) and help warn other members.
eBay would be a much better place if Feedback ment much.
posted on November 29, 2000 01:27:19 AM new
That sounds like way too much to pay. I would contact the seller and politely ask for a breakdown of the shipping charges. If I were the buyer I would be comfortable nixing the deal. After all, the terms set in the item description are not a "promise," they are a contract. And I would not have a problem leaving negative feedback if the seller was untruthful.
As far as "actual" postage vs. actual shipping costs, I would say yes there is a difference. Actual shipping costs are, to me, what it costs to ship the package including materials, but not driving to the post office. That would fall under handling. Just my breakdown. But still, I can't see how it could come out to $8. Sounds outrageous.
Borillar, I find I usually agree with your posts but not this time, because it seems you are specifically targeting handling fees with the presumption that they are somehow unethical. I sell some items at a buck or two over my cost, and the handling fee is mostly for the time spent on bookeeping. My auctions state, "Winner pays $X.XX for shipping, handling and insurance." That should be enough. I've bought many CDs at eBay and usually pay around $4 for shipping. I don't have a problem with that, although I know it will probably cost the seller less than $2 to ship. The reason is simple. I always know I'm getting a great deal, even with a little extra thrown in.
I can tell you I would NEVER bid in an auction where the exact shipping wasn't stated in the ad. If I really wanted the item, I would contact the seller before bidding and ask for a quote.
posted on November 29, 2000 03:46:42 AM new
To me actual shipping is the cost of postage and insurance if the buyer wants it. If they figure in packing and driving to the PO ect, those are handling charges. I have sold some heavy items where I didn't know the actual shipping till I got their zip code. I have also paid some outrageous charges but I don't buy from them again.
posted on November 29, 2000 04:47:08 AM new
You don't mention what kind of ornaments they are, but I've sold several lots of vintage glass bulbs and the last was for 20 bulbs and they shipped at $4.05 with insurance. It almost seems as if she didn't give you a break on shipping with multiple items won.
posted on November 29, 2000 05:54:13 AM new
I am in NO WAY saying the seller is right in charging you $8.55 shipping, BUT you di take a leap of faith bidding on an item that did not clearly state exactly what the shipping charges were, nor did you email the seller prior to bidding.
Therefore I do not feel you have any right what so ever to leave a negtive comment about this (and recieve a Ret. Neg. back from the seller).
You have already made one mistake by bidding on an item without clear shipping cost. Don't make another by welching on the deal and getting a Neg comment.
posted on November 29, 2000 06:25:04 AM newBorillar, I LOVE your form! Have you tried sending it to ebay? It would solve all the shipping problems with one fell swoop. Probably will never be implemented because it's too easy a solution.
twinsoft, What possible objection could a seller have to a breakdown of the costs for a buyer? As sellers so often say regarding shipping costs, "if you think it's too high, don't bid." That goes for handling costs as well. The buyer will find out when the package arrives how much the handling costs are. Why shouldn't they know before bidding?
To all those who say "if you think it's too high don't bid" or "if you didn't ask first, you have to follow through or you deserve the neg"-- I ask this question: If seller just says "buyer pays shipping" what is considered unreasonable? A lot of buyers are new, they are expecting reasonable fees and don't know what some sellers do.
At what dollar amount are shipping fees unreasonable and the buyer doesn't have to follow through? Some consider $8.55 to ship something that can go for $4.05 isn't unreasonable. This is more than double the amount. How about $20.00? At that point is it still the buyer's fault for not asking or can they refuse to follow through? This would be 5x the actual cost.
posted on November 29, 2000 06:28:21 AM new
Mrpotatohead,
I agree. I just wish Ebay would give a few common definitions of "Actual" "fixed" "exact"
I agree that this is the sellers ballgame and I respect their decision but as you can see from here people have different ideas of what is to be included. I just want to be able to feel confident at what a seller means and yes I am one that will not bid until I know. I don't want to make a "leap of faith".
I also don't necessarily need to know what the "exact postage, insurance" is to a my shipping zone because no matter what I decide to order from the sellers state I am going to have to pay the exact postage. That won't differ if I know you are using postal, UPS etc. I just don't want to have marvey's problem. Well, I wouldn't because I email or don't bid but it would be nice if I didn't have to email because the seller had already mentioned this up front.
MrsWells,
I wish more sellers would use First Class on smalls under 2 # and I may be out of line since I am not a seller but I am wondering if it isn't the convenience of being able to use the boxes from priority. Maybe they can't or it is too high to buy the boxes for smalls?
Borillar,
I like your chart except for the fact that you say "actual material for packing" I see a problem trying to figure out what "material cost" is. I also can accept a handling charge or not but I would like to know how much. I can also see the sellers problem of not knowing how much it will take but somehow it would be nice to know.
posted on November 29, 2000 07:55:38 AM new
The "Powerseller" is ripping you off, sounds like to me. Actual means actual, not shipping plus exorbitant handling tacked on. Seems underhanded and misleading.
and no TV, and no dinner....
