posted on November 29, 2000 08:10:10 AM new
borillar, your proposal is excellent, and I hope eBay will do this soon. I do agree with sg52, tho, to include a fixed rate option. You could just have another radio button with a text box next to it, where the seller could type in the amount and method of shipment.
marvey, I would say that overcharge on shipping is fraud, since the seller stated 'actual shipping'.
I myself state actual shipping, but add 10 cents to non-Priority purchases to help defray the cost of the bubble envelopes and bubble wrap. I state the price in my ad. No one has ever complained.
posted on November 29, 2000 10:03:13 AM new
I think something along the lines of what borillar proposed would be good, but I don't know if it is necessary to specify exactly where every penny is going, as long as the total cost to ship and the method of shipping is given.
For your viewing pleasure (and critique), here is another suggestion:
posted on November 29, 2000 10:15:38 AM new
Let's see, we have ebay make rules that tell us how we must state our shipping terms. So, do we next have them decide what our return policy is? Or make rules about when shipping must occur (24hrs after getting payment via paypal, etc). Or how about ebay making rules about what type of payments we are allowed to accept? Maybe ebay should dictate what our opening bid should be or how much profit we are allowed to make?
We are supposed to be INDEPENDANT business people..why would we want "big brother" looking over our shoulders telling us how to conduct our business? Why the proposals to make the "other sellers" do things the way we think they should do it?
posted on November 29, 2000 10:23:30 AM newwhy would we want "big brother" looking over our shoulders telling us how to conduct our business?
We shouldn't. That's why I included a box for "See item description" in each section of my proposal above. Those who don't want to fill in the information in the spaces provided can still present it (or not, as they choose) in their item description.
I don't see why providing a more consistent format for explaining shipping details for those who choose to use it would be a bad thing.
posted on November 29, 2000 10:36:52 AM new
One of the problems with some forms is that sometimes, it is all inclusive, or it excludes the very thing one might want to use. Case in point: Ebay's form on
Where will you ship"....goes on naming several countries, but no breakdown on what I personally am interested in. I ship to USA, Canada and Japan...period...But there is no "Japan" on the form...just ASIA, which, to me, can open a whole can of worms...I do NOT want to ship all over Asia...Just JAPAN.
I do not want to have listing tell me
Ooops, you forgot to fill in a field" because I do not want to click on the Handling charge, since I have never, and will never, use a handling charge. I get all my packaging for free. All it has cost me is the little bit of time originally to locate a supplier..a furniture store down the street... JMHO
******************** Gosh Shosh!
posted on November 29, 2000 10:40:59 AM newMrPatato..I like your form also; a little less limiting. Personally, I still would checmark the "see item description"
******************** Gosh Shosh!
posted on November 29, 2000 10:54:36 AM new
shosh-
Personally, I still would checmark the "see item description"
I guess that was the point I was trying to address. There would be no requirement to use the form, but for those who did, it would allow the information to be presented in a more consistent format.
There will always be shipping situations that cannot be planned for on a form in advance, and "see item description" allows for the flexibility to deal with them.
posted on November 29, 2000 01:14:01 PM new
London4, "What possible objection could a seller have to a breakdown of the costs for a buyer?" Well, none, really. On the other hand, if the question is posed as, "Let's line up those dirty rotten sellers who charge a handling fee and make them confess" then I would have a problem with that. How about the bidder assuming some responsibility?
There is a feedback forum and if you feel you were overcharged by the seller, you should leave neutral or negative feedback. That is what feedback is for. If you have a problem with the shipping fee, and don't say anything, then it is you, not eBay, who is leaving the door open. But again, a careful bidder would not find himself in that situation.
"At what dollar amount are shipping fees unreasonable and the buyer doesn't have to follow through?" Well, I would draw the line at undisclosed, or "hidden" fees. There is no way I would pay any fee that wasn't stated up front in the ad. I would not hesitate to tell the seller where to go, and leave neutral or negative feedback.
After that, it is somewhat of a gray area. But I would consider charging $3.20 shipping, and then sending by first class, to be misleading. If buyers would leave appropriate feedback, the seller would have to change his approach or else be unable to conduct business.
posted on November 29, 2000 01:33:34 PM new
I just want to point out that the last time I purchased a book from Amazon.com, I paid $4 for shipping. The package came with a $3.20 metered postage stamp.
Even with extra insurance, no way the actual cost was $4. So they overcharged by a few cents, so what? I knew the cost ahead of time and agreed to it.
Were I a picky buyer, I could have sent an email asking for a breakdown of every penny. Or I could have asked, "can you send it cheaper (by book rate)?" Or I could have tried to haggle about the fee, or complained about it afterwards. I didn't do any of those things. I was quite happy with my purchase. I don't think Amazon ripped me off.
(edited to add, this was a paperpack book that could have been sent for under a buck by book rate.)
Why do so many people feel that because we're just regular folks with an email address anyone can access, that we sellers should be held to a higher standard than a company like Amazon? I'm cautious about my purchases, and I have never felt that I was ripped off at eBay. I've made big purchases (over $500) and always contacted the sellers FIRST to make sure there was a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Buyers should stop playing the victim game and start assuming responsibility (like leaving appropriate feedback). Just MHO.
posted on November 29, 2000 01:34:03 PM new
Why should the seller receive a negative because the buyer is an idiot? If the shipping and handling charges are not clearly stated and you bid on the item without asking first, a million dollar shipping charge is perfectly reasonable. If it clearly states $4.00 and the seller charges you $5.00, then you have a complaint.
And can someone produce the law that says that sellers MUST breakdown and justify their S&H charges to some cheapskate and infantile buyer. We, the sellers, set the prices! Buy if you want but quit your bitchin'.
posted on November 29, 2000 02:03:24 PM new"What possible objection could a seller have to a breakdown of the costs for a buyer?"
I, for one seller, don't break them down even for myself.
If it will probably ship under 2 pounds and will sell under $100, I charge $5. Sometimes I use a recycled box. Sometimes I use a box I paid $.50 for. Sometimes I was wrong and it actually weighs over 2 pounds when I get to the postoffice. Sometimes this, sometimes that.
"Priority shipping $5.00". I like it as both a seller and a buyer for any item selling at $25 or more.
If it "feels heavy" or will sell for over $1000, I charge $10. I actually believe that a maximum charge for a smallish item of about $10 regardless of price pays off with higher bids on high priced items.
If it's "big", I charge $15 or $20. I've been losing $3-$4 each on these, gotta get tougher, and I don't think it's being made up on the bid with $100..$300 items.
If it's really big, I state something like "Priority postage + $2, expect $30..$40 depending on zip code".
posted on November 29, 2000 02:20:25 PM newmark090....someone needs a nap?
Just because a bidder has not contacted seller about charges does not make bidder an idiot...and that is not "b....ing", that is stating an opinion.
On the other hand, if sellers were honest enough to mention a HANDLING fee in the listing, bidders would not need to ask, would they...
I buy and sell, and I am not pro or anti either side.
******************** Gosh Shosh!
I wouldn't pretend to want sellers to be forced by ebay to do anything that would cost them. I would just like somehow for there to be a definition that all of us will understand.
If Actual means exact postage...fine, if it means postage + standing in line + gas + lunch etc. thats fine too. Just let us all be on the same wave length and no surprise and no one can complain because with us being able to understand the definition and know what is, is.
posted on November 30, 2000 05:34:08 AM new
mark090 said
"Why should the seller receive a negative because the buyer is an idiot? If the shipping and handling charges are not clearly stated and you bid on the item without asking first, a million dollar shipping charge is perfectly reasonable. If it clearly states $4.00 and the seller charges you $5.00, then you have a complaint.
And can someone produce the law that says that sellers MUST breakdown and justify their S&H charges to some cheapskate and infantile buyer. We, the sellers, set the prices! Buy if you want but quit your bitchin'."
DAMN STRAIGHT !!!!!!!!
My feeling EXACTLY !!!!!!
The buyer is ignorant for bidding on an auction that does not clearly state what the shipping is. Nobodys fault but the buyer.
posted on November 30, 2000 06:57:02 AM new
ebay used to be a great place to trade. Then the scammers, crooks, and shipping profiteers entered the site.
I guess its too much to much to ask that some sellers practice a little ethics and standards of fairness in their shipping policies. Then again this is America where the geneal attitude is if you can get away with it go for it. And we wonder why the crime rate is so high.
posted on November 30, 2000 06:57:51 AM new
As the idiot in question, I would like to ad to the recent developements. #1 I did not bid on an auction that did not state shipping charges, I bid on an auction that stated EXACT SHIPPING CHARGED, no qualifiers beyond that. As the buyer I expect reasonable and prudent shipping to be charged, not lunch money and not standing in line. And please don't charge me for the box you get FREE from the postal service and that I'm already paying for with priority mail.
#2 I also buy from amazon and have done so recently, when you go to the check out they state EXACTLY what you will be charged for shipping then you finish your sale. You have the option of NOT completing your sale if you don't like the shipping charge. I would like that option added to my ebay shopping. If a seller does not state up front the shipping charges the buyer has the right not to complete the transaction.
#3 The seller has contacted me and has agreed that she may have made a mistake with her paperwork and possibly it doesn't cost $8.55 to send christmas ornaments two states.
#4 I don't know how many of you sellers are active buyers on ebay, but I can't tell you how many listings that stated on the check off SEE PAYMENT BELOW and SEE SHIPPING BELOW and included nothing on the auction listing on what they will except for payment and what shipping is. According to all of you that must mean I'm allowed to send that seller monopoly money, right or any form of payment I feel like since it was not stated EXACTLY in your auction ad? This analogy is the same as you can charge anything you want for shipping! It has become a box check off.
#5By the spirit of these posts it has become painfully obvious to me that there are alot of sellers out there that are working over time on trying to make buying on ebay a painful experience not a fun experience. No wonder everyone sales are down. Thank goodness the seller I bought from is more reasonable than many of the posters on auctionwatch.
#6 If I was only bidding on one item per week I would email potential sellers on there exact postage. I bid on and get out bid on 20 - 50 auctions per week. I certainly can't email 50 potential sellers on there exact shipping. And it's about 50/50 for the sellers who state shipping vs the ones who don't or state on the check off box exact shipping charged.
posted on November 30, 2000 07:03:17 AM new
This is interesting
We ship over million dollars out of our office in a year or so
I cannot overcharge, GM, Ford, Baxter, Seagate etc, The transportation departments would be on our back
When I get ripped off by excess shipping charges--I'll take a neg and also give it back
"Excessive & Speculative Ship Charges--not USPS, or UPS, or Fed Ex"
posted on November 30, 2000 02:39:13 PM newmtech66, you may have an agreement with your customers, but typically mail order companies do add a handling fee to orders. In particular, those CD-club deals where you buy 10 CDs for a penny, and then they charge you $4 per disc in shipping/handling. I've never seen a mail order company that charged actual postage only without a small handling fee.
marvey, Amazon discloses what the shipping charges will be, but they certainly don't provide a breakdown of those costs. They simply tell you shipping will be $4 and you can accept or refuse. They don't tell you what the actual postage, packaging, insurance costs, etc., will be.
I don't buy much on eBay but when I do I am very careful. The seller who wrote "actual shipping charges" and then tried to charge $8.55 is a crook. I don't think they are typical of eBay sellers.
As a seller, I can tell you the flip side of the coin: the number of airhead/problem customers is definitely on the rise. In the past couple of weeks I've had several customers forget to include their shipping address and then accuse me of holding their packages. I got an email like this one recently:
"The package still hasn't arrived. I don't care about the insurance, I just want an immediate refund. By the way, I moved recently and the post office is losing a lot of my mail. My new address is ...." (The package did arrive a few days later.)
eBay customers have always needed a lot of handholding, but things seem to be getting even worse lately.
posted on November 30, 2000 02:47:07 PM new
actual postage = what the post office charges
actual shipping = cost of postage and packing materials
shipping & handling = cost of postage and materials plus paying someone (might be yourself) for the time that it takes to package item and get item to point of departure
posted on November 30, 2000 02:56:17 PM new
Hello Twinsoft,
Your statement to marvey said "they don't give you a breakdown they simply tell you the cost is $4.00 and there could be extra charges in there but not stated". (something like that)
You put a $ amount in there so I could figure out the postage etc myself in that case but if "actual" is stated and you are receiving something very small and the seller does include all the extras the buyer would have no way of knowing that.
The example of $4.00 tells me whether whether I want to bid or pass depending on whether I decide it sounds reasonable or not and I know flat out if I bid and get the item I am going to pay $4.00 and not for instance $8.50.
posted on November 30, 2000 03:03:16 PM new
Shar9...the problem with everyone being on the same wavelenght is that ebay is a conglomerate of millions of individual businesses, with the right to conduct that business as they see fit. Demanding everyone be on the same wavelength starts a process towards big brother watching over your shoulder and making the rules for us.
posted on November 30, 2000 03:06:56 PM new
pay for it ...then weigh it ...as if you are sending it back to them and what the cost would be to send it back...if it's less ...email them and tell them..that you understand there are costs above the shipping but ..that this is behond fair...ask for a small refund and then...if they do not ...neg them
posted on November 30, 2000 03:36:59 PM new
Shar9, I'm not sure if I understand you but I think we're in agreement. I posted before that I would in no way pay "hidden" fees that weren't disclosed in the description. The stuff I sell isn't very heavy so calculating shipping charges is usually not a problem. When items are heavy, more often than not I "guesstimate" and then undercharge for shipping. My auctions always state a flat shipping rate up front, as "shipping/handling/insurance" but even that is no guarantee that customers won't complain afterwards.
Amy, I agree with what you say and I don't think eBay should start putting restrictions on sellers. They are a venue and for eBay to force sellers to disclose every little detail via a form with fields for handling, packaging materials, etc., etc., is not appropriate. How sellers do business is not eBay's business, though there are already prohibitions against excessive shipping. Buyers need to take responsibility for their purchases, not ask eBay to create more rules.
