posted on May 1, 2006 05:18:23 PM new
Pi here also in the NW 65% are willing to pay more for goods and services as long as legal immigrants and Citizens are used.
Fenix I am glad you stopped using your common sense sig, in this case you have none.
posted on May 1, 2006 05:18:56 PM new
By Charlie Daniels www.charliedaniels.com
By Charlie Daniels www.charliedaniels.com
Mexican Standoff
I don't know how everybody else feels about it, but to me I think Hispanic people in this country, legally or illegally, made a huge public relations mistake with their recent demonstrations.
I don't blame anybody in the world for wanting to come to the United States of America, as it is a truly wonderful place. But when the first thing you do when you set foot on American soil is illegal it is flat out wrong and I don't care how many lala land left heads come out of the woodwork and start trying to give me sensitivity lessons.
I don't need sensitivity lessons, in fact I don't have anything against Mexicans, I just! have something against criminals and anybody who comes into this country illegally is a criminal and if you don't believe it try coming into America from a foreign country without a passport and see how far you get.
What disturbs me about the demonstrations is that it's tantamount to saying, "I am going to come into your country even if it means breaking your laws and there's nothing you can do about it."
It's an "in your face" action and speaking just for me I don't like it one little bit and if there were a half dozen pairs of gonads in Washington bigger than English peas it wouldn't be happening.
Where are you, you bunch of lilly livered, pantywaist, forked tongued, sorry excuses for defenders of The Constitution? Have you been drinking the water out of the Potomac again?
And even if you pass a bill on immigration it will probably be so pork laden and watered down that it won't mean anything anyway. Besides, what good is a another law going to do when you won't enforce the ones on the books now?
And what ever happened to the polls guys? I thought you folks were the quintessential finger wetters. Well you sure ain't paying any attention to the polls this time because somewhere around eighty percent of Americans want something done about this mess, and mess it is and getting bigger everyday.
This is no longer a problem, it is a dilemma and headed for being a tragedy. Do you honestly think that what happened in France with the Muslims can't happen here when the businesses who hire these people finally run out of jobs and a few million disillusioned Hispanics take to the streets?
If you, Mr. President, Congressmen and Senators, knuckle under on this and refuse to do something meaningful it means that you care nothing for the kind of country your children and grandchildren will inherit.
But I guess that doesn't matter as long as you get re-elected.
Shame on you.
One of the big problems in America today is that if you have the nerve to say anything derogatory about any group of people (except Christians) you are going to be screamed at by the media and called a racist, a bigot and anything else they can think of to call you.
Well I've been pounded by the media before and I'm still rockin' and rollin' and when it comes to speaking the truth I fear not. And the truth is that the gutless, gonadless, milksop politicians are just about to sell out the United States of America because they don't have the intestinal fortitude to stand up to the face reality.
And reality is that we would never allow any other group of people to have 12 million illegals in this country and turn around and say, "Oh it's ok, ya'll can stay here if you'll just allow us to slap your wrist."
And I know that some of you who read this column are saying "Well what's wrong with that?"
I'll tell you what's wrong with it. These people could be from Mars as far as we know. We don't know who they are, where they are or what they're up to and the way the Congress is going we're not going to.
Does this make sense? Labor force you say? We already subsidize corporate agriculture as it is, must we subsidize their labor as well?
The people were from Haiti would we be so fast to turn a blind eye to them or if they were from Somalia or Afghanistan? I think not.
All the media shows us are pictures of hard working Hispanics who have crossed the border just to try to better their life. They don't show you pictures of the Feds rounding up members of MS 13, the violent gang who came across the same way the decent folks did. They don't tell you about the living conditions of the Mexican illegals some fat cat hired to pick his crop.
I want to make two predictions. No. 1: This situation is going to grow and fester until it erupts in violence on our streets while the wimps in Washington drag their toes in the dirt and try to figure how many tons of political hay they can make to the acre.
No 2: Somebody is going to cross that border with some kind of weapon of mass destruction and set it off in a major American city after which there will be a backlash such as this country has never experienced and the Capitol building in Washington will probably tilt as Congressmen and Senators rush to the other side of the issue.
I don't know about you but I would love to see just one major politician stand up and say, "I don't care who I make mad and I don't care how many votes I lose, this is a desperate situation and I'm going to lead the fight to get it straightened out."
I don't blame anybody for wanting to come to America, but if you don't respect our immigration laws why should you respect any others.
And by the way, this is America and our flag has stars and stripes. Please get that other one out of my face.
Pray for our troops
What do you think?
"God Bless America Again" Charlie Daniels April 10, 2006
May God Bless Each and Everyone
"“More Iraqis think things are going well in Iraq than Americans do. I guess they don’t get the New York Times over there.”—Jay Leno".
posted on May 1, 2006 05:46:06 PM new
Ron - the number came from a survey that I posted here a week or two ago. Maybe Helen can find it or if I get really bored this evening I'll see if I can.
Bear - You know - I thought the Longhorn QB reference would at least get a giggle out of you.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
People put their hand on the bible, and swear to uphold the constitution. They do not put their hand on the constitution, and swear to uphold the bible.
posted on May 1, 2006 06:05:05 PM new
::As far as losing the child care workers, the maids, the burger flippers, landscapers, construction workers etc., we'll get by with out any illegals stealing these jobs at unrealistically low wages in the first place.::
Lets just take a look at those jobs you listed....
Child Care workers - well once you get rind of them you have a lot of people that will not be able to work because they will not be able to afford the higher cost of childcare that comes when workers become a premium. When a low wage worker has to pay more for child care than they make at their job they end of going on public assistance.
Construction Workers - Industry estimates are that somewhere between 15 and 20% of workers in the construction industry are illegals. Lets say that you get rid of them and replace maybe half with legals that still results in a 7-10% drop in labor force, but increases the costs which means that less homes are being built and that those that are built have a higher base price which ends up in a drop housing starts, a major economic indicator which is used in setting value to the dollar. Dollar value drops, interest rates raise, international buying power decreases, inflation increases.... Are you telling me that you think any of those things are positives or irrelevent to the economic health of this country?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
People put their hand on the bible, and swear to uphold the constitution. They do not put their hand on the constitution, and swear to uphold the bible.
posted on May 1, 2006 06:35:15 PM new
No one in their right mind wouldn't be able to see the economic impact that losing those numbers of the workforce would create but these are illegal workers that didn't just all start work all at once overnight and so as illegals are removed from sectors of society that effect the economy then suitable replacements will be found to cover their losses. It won't happen overnight, it will happen over time.
posted on May 1, 2006 07:05:40 PM new
LOL.....gotta just LOVE those who support those who break our laws by entering ILLEGALLY.
They have excuse after excuse for how terrible it would be IF they were all deported.
I totally reject those poll numbers fenix states.
And I agree with bear's article that this protest has done more harm for their cause than they or their supporters will ever understand....let alone admit.
The illegals are protesting for their RIGHTS. LOL LOL LOL They HAVE NO RIGHTS....they're illegal.
Believe it or not...before our illegal problem grew so large...American's did quite well without them....in all areas they now work in. We can return quite easily to those days again.
I also agree with those who make the point of their supporters only wanting to speak of what they 'offer' our country. lol But NEVER admit to the billions and billions they actually cost our Nation.
Let them do like other LEGAL immigrants have done....ENTER THE LAWFUL WAY...
Even some of the legal immigrants want them to 'go through the process' like they had to. Don't fool yourself those numbers who approve are as high as stated. They must have polled ONLY liberal, pro-lawbreaking people....or the illegals themselves. lol
posted on May 1, 2006 07:15:49 PM new
I notice Linda that you have no legitimate response to the econmoic impact that the cost of deporting 12 million people as well as removing them from the workforce and tax rolls will have.
At least I offer actual relevent points in my arguement - you just sit there and recite retoric and try to toss off numbers as irrelevent andwell, if they could be relevent , they must be false, and if they are not false, they must be skewed.... Must have taken a lot of thought on your part to come up with that one.
You know what the most interesting part of the conservative side of this arguement is? It shows no real thought. It's got good knee jerk reaction. You have all those great one liners that sound so good. But you have no aknowledgement of what is being lost and no answer as to how to replace it.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
People put their hand on the bible, and swear to uphold the constitution. They do not put their hand on the constitution, and swear to uphold the bible.
posted on May 1, 2006 07:16:41 PM new
If the illegals get their way, the pay in a lot of jobs mentioned will have to increase. The unions are backing the marchers in hopes of gaining new membership. It is not just industry that wants them here.
As one Latino City Official in LA kept shouting into the crowd in Spanish "Today we march, Tomorrow we vote"
buyhigh
posted on May 1, 2006 07:26:13 PM new
Yeah, I laugh at all of that too, Linda but you know what the funniest thing that Fenix posted was? It was that she thinks she can actually get Bear to giggle.....boy that'l be the day when she can get HIM to do that.
posted on May 1, 2006 07:36:43 PM new
LIAR_K SAID, gotta just LOVE those who support those who break our laws by entering ILLEGALLY.
I remember showing LIAR_K years ago what a lousy job DUMBO BUSH was doing leaving our southern border wide open for millions of illegals to enter America.
She lied then saying how DUMBO BUSH was going to hire 10,000 more border guards and send billions of dollars to close the southern border. HA,HA,HA
Now years later that DUMBO BUSH did next to nothing about our wide open southern borders. Now that millions of illegals has come to bite the conservatives in their azzes. Now the conservative lawmakers have been exposed providing cheap labor for industry and their war against the middle class American. The old blow hard bag LIAR_K is still blowing big time stinky gas. What a wasted old has been she and her failed political movement have become.
LIAR_K IS SINGING THE SAME OLD SONG YEAR AFTER YEAR. ITS CALLED "WASTED DAYS AND WASTED NIGHTS".
posted on May 1, 2006 07:43:13 PM new
If he paid attention to predraft talk he knows what I am talking about and even an old goat like Bear would let out a snort and a smirk which I consider to probably be the Bear equivalent of a giggle.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
People put their hand on the bible, and swear to uphold the constitution. They do not put their hand on the constitution, and swear to uphold the bible.
posted on May 1, 2006 08:01:51 PM new
What is it you feel I have to defend myself against Pi?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
People put their hand on the bible, and swear to uphold the constitution. They do not put their hand on the constitution, and swear to uphold the bible.
posted on May 1, 2006 08:03:53 PM new
Ok, back on topic. Sorry, Ron that I allowed myself to get sucked in by Fenix and derail your thread like that.
Maybe we can conduct deportations of illegals on the lottery system and say, like every illegal named Martinez can get out in July and then any illegal named Hernandez can get out in August and so that the Mexican's won't feel like they are being singled out and unfairly targeted racially then every illegal named Obrien can get out in September and every illegal named Cousteu can get the f out in October and so on. I mean, lets be fair here so no one gets the idea that it's based on race.
posted on May 1, 2006 08:33:44 PM new
fenix - One of the MANY TIMES we've had this discussion...I posted the full COST of having them here. Because someone else had posted how it would cost too much to deport them all.
I refuse to 'buy' that falsehood. We don't have to do it all at once.
We can just ENFORCE our already existing laws....like when police come upon illegals they actually turn them over to the INS rather than letting them go.
That's what's been wrong with our system for generations, NOT enforcing our existing laws.
AND it continues to slay me that you defend law breakers. And not JUST by entering illegally....but by purchasing FALSE DOCUMENTS...false SS numbers...etc.
They CONTINUE breaking the law....and YOU support that.
Unbelievable that ANY American would side with criminals. But we all know....and as I've said before...you have a soft spot in your heart for mexicans and arabs/muslims.
It's always been real clear. But lawbreakers???? That's a whole other ballgame.
posted on May 1, 2006 08:50:17 PM new
That's because I live in a world that is no where near as stark as your purely black and white one (unless of course we are talking about questionable activities by conservatives, then suddenly you find grey). If a person risks their life to come here, does an honest days work and in reality, pays more in taxes than the minimum wage legal citizen working next to him (a legal worker can file for a refund at the end of the year, an illegal cannot), lives an honest existance and sends money home to take care of their family, I don't see the vile threat to life liberty and the american way that you conservatives try to cast that existance as.
As for why police "don't do their job" by holding illegals until the INS comes to pick them up... in Denver there was recently a story on this. They don't do it because INS doesn't show up and local departments are stuck housing "prisoners" that do not fall under their jurisdiction and do not get reimbursed.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
People put their hand on the bible, and swear to uphold the constitution. They do not put their hand on the constitution, and swear to uphold the bible.
posted on May 1, 2006 08:54:03 PM new
Don't sweat it Mags... the only thing Linda got wrong there was that she narrowed the classification too much. I have a soft spot for people, not just Latinos adn Muslims.
I don't deny it and I'm not ashamed. I don't see compassion as a negative.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
People put their hand on the bible, and swear to uphold the constitution. They do not put their hand on the constitution, and swear to uphold the bible.
posted on May 1, 2006 08:55:24 PM newI am curoious as to where you came up with this "70%" number.
only one of a number of similar polls. fenix is right, deportation of millions of people is a pipe dream.
NBC News/Wall Street Journal Poll conducted by the polling organizations of Peter Hart (D) and Bill McInturff (R). April 21-24, 2006. N=1,005 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.1.
"If you had to make a choice, would you favor deporting immigrants in America who are not legal citizens and do not have work permits, or would you favor allowing these immigrants to stay in America as long as they pass a security check, meet certain conditions, and pay taxes?"
.
4/21-24/06
Deport
Them 35%
Allow Them
To Stay 61%
Unsure 4%
"I'm going to describe a portion of a possible new immigration law, which also would include tighter border security. This law would deal with immigrants who are here illegally in three ways, depending on how long they have been in the United States. Those who have been here for more than five years would be allowed to continue to work here for six years, and then would be allowed to apply for permanent citizenship. Those who have been here for two to five years would be required to go to a legal border entry point and register sometime in the next three years, and would then be able to return to work. Those who have been here for less than two years would be required to return to their home country and apply for entry into the United States through the normal legal channels.
"Thinking about the portion of a possible immigration law I just described, would you favor or oppose this?"
posted on May 1, 2006 09:00:06 PM new
fenix - So...what are you saying about YOUR position.
Are you for ALL open borders? No restrictions/laws on anyone who wants to enter this country?
The political ramifications of this mexican intrustion is voting power. As we can see now...the growing mexican population has now reached such a mass that even the legal mexican immigrants are supporting their illegal 'brothers'....rights.
And since the congress has NO backbone...because they WANT those votes on their side....they refuse to do what is necessary.
Our country cannot afford to support this many POOR mexicans....many who cannot take care of themselves.
Ever wonder why our poverty level is increasing? You know the one the liberals are always using again this administration? Because as more and more poor mexicans come here...it raises our poverty level.
Then the liberals can pass MORE entitlement programs to help out all these poor poverty people.
It's an endless 'want' and 'demand' list. From ILLEGALS.
Heck even mexico has STRICKLY enforced immigration laws on THEIR southern border.
But then #*!@ that we should let more of them in?
A farce....and American's like you who appear to me to believe all should be able to enter whenever and in whatever NUMBERS that wish to....will destroy our Nation.
posted on May 1, 2006 09:00:11 PM new
I'd really like to hear Linda or her supporters here speak directly concerning their feelings about President Bush's handling of the illegal immigrant problem. They are all curiously silent in that regard. It seems they'd like to make this an issue about Democrats. Wasn't it the President who suggested making a way to allow these people to become legal??
____________________________________________
posted on May 1, 2006 09:09:00 PM new
profe....I have stated time and time again that it is MY position to deport them all. A little at a time....but ALL.
I do not agree with any form of amnesty....no matter what they call it.
They entered illegally....and now they want to, in different suggested ways, make them legal. NO...is MY position...and NEITHER party has proposed that.
IF they would....they'd be our NEXT president, imo.
I don't care what some NBC polls says. Polls are pretty much worthless....I thought you agreed with that at one time.
And other than on chat boards....I never hear anyone supporting the illegals being allowed to stay here.
posted on May 1, 2006 09:17:22 PM new
'It seems they'd like to make this an issue about Democrats.'
It seems like some Democrats want this to be a non issue like it's alright that people are here ilegally, working hard and so what's the big deal then?
As far as i'm concerned they're all blowing it big time, Democrats, Republicans, it doesn't matter what party is in control or when. The fact reamains that the g'damn politicians have gotten us into this mess and now they're all twiddling their thumbs trying to pass it off on someone else.
posted on May 1, 2006 09:41:55 PM new
I will take bets and give good odds that no illegals will be deported because there are too many powerful groups that gain from illegal immigrants. Industries of all types increase their profits by employing them at lower wages. The Catholic Church increases their power because most Latinos are Catholic. The labor unions hope in the future when they they are legal to recruit them. The problem has nothing to do with liberals and conservatives - Republicans or Democrats. You just need to follow the money.
buyhigh
posted on May 1, 2006 09:48:33 PM newThe No. 1 employers of day laborers, many of whom are illegal immigrants, are homeowners — not construction contractors, not professional landscapers.
posted on May 1, 2006 10:01:45 PM new
Understand there are very many construction workers who are illegal working in New Orleans now and they were not hired by absent home owners. - not to mention private building contractors, paving and roofing contractors etc. They may not come under the classifcation of Day Laborers. Add the hotel and restaurant industries,the meat packing industries, Automotive body repair shops and all the others. Think Mohawk Carpeting showed up in the news tonight as an employer and recruiter of illegals
buyhigh
posted on May 1, 2006 10:08:24 PM new
I am not happy at all with President Bush's handling of this immigration issue and his idea of just handing out amnesty for illegals pisses me off.
As it has been pointed out before polls can be manipulated to show whatever result you want.
So I take it for what they are worth. People I think are becoming fed up with this immigration BS and now I am beginning to understand why organizations like the Aryan Brotherhood can even get one memeber let alone a few dozen.
I do know legal immigrants in this area are pissed off about the thought illegals will get carte blanche amnesty.
Oh and fenix it is a pipe dream these people pay taxes. Since when is cash taxed?
posted on May 1, 2006 10:15:09 PM new
And it's not only the ones who are paid under the table....cash...but the billions they send to mexico for their families.
Think of how much that money could be benefitting our own economy...rather that mexico's.
And then....if they are given some sort of amnesty....they'll be bringing the families up here that they're now sending their money to.
Before we know it....we'll have another 33 MILLION [or more if they have large families] mexican immigrants here.
Our economy cannot support that many people uneducated, low income workers. We just can't. AND that's exactly why we supposedly have the immigration laws that we do....so those who wish to come here are allowed to but in limited numbers so it doesn't disturb our economic balance.
posted on May 2, 2006 05:33:47 AM new
I can comment on the "economic impact" statement. What of those who come over here illegally, bear children and then collect the welfare for them. You don't think they have our system down to a science in Mexico????? Well, they do. FREE medical. FREE money. Their children are US citizens. No matter that they became citizens while their parents were criminals.
fenix
I agree that the procedure for becomming a citizen needs to be simplified. You won't get an argument out of me on that one. However, I still will never agree with rewarding criminal activity by awarding amnesty to the illegal immigrants. They are laughing at us and our inability catch most of them.
