posted on December 6, 2000 01:39:27 PM new
ExchangePath is not under investigation, shut down, leaving town, etc. As a matter of fact, we are working harder than ever to implement service improvements and restore service to interrupted accounts.
Pam
posted on December 6, 2000 01:57:12 PM new
I got a note saying my billing address was incorrect, but it isn't and that I needed to add a valid credit card, which is already on the account, I think they are looking for reasons to not pay for free listing day myself and this just eliminated many listings that they have to pay for. I for one have told them where to put their services and will no longer use them. I also added into all my auction that I no longer accept exchangepath and advise against anyone else using it either.
posted on December 6, 2000 02:12:25 PM newyisgoodPaypal was blasted for freezing accounts, then EP comes along and does the same thing. PP was blasted for making changes without notice, then EP does the same thing.
No doubt about it. They should have learned and not taken this action without notice to customers. I think that their person (ExchangePath) on AW has stated that this was a terrible lapse in judgement (or words to that effect). I am betting that they won't try something like this again without notice.
About 7 weeks ago I called EP and asked if they were planning to send sellers the cardholder's address to prevent fraud and was told they were planning that. Now they say they will NOT do that.
Who told you that they were planning to send the cardholder's address and then said they would NOT do that? I was under the impression from phone conversations that this is definitely something that they are working on and the card and address verification which they have implemented is a first step in that process--though they were kind of high handed about the verification process I grant you.
I feel that everyone is more upset with it than they would have been had not PayPal been so bad before.
Unfortunately, EP and all other similar services are working from a deficit because of what PayPal did and so people are not as willing to be forgiving and patient as they were with PayPal. This is so sad...not because of ExchangePath per se, but because this is the way it is all over the place.
I have buyers who have been stung by bad sellers and so they are leery about buying from the next person, even though most sellers are honest and good sellers. The same with the buyers. Most are good and honest and our auctions are completed without a hitch and everyone is happy. It is just the few bad apples that cause everyone to have the attitude that you have to PROVE to me that you are honest and above board and that any problems are truly mistakes and not someone trying to screw the other person over.
It is just so sad that people cannot live thinking that you have to PROVE that you are bad and assume that you are good and honest. But that is a far off dream....
Until then, I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt as I did with PayPal as they were going through their fledgling stages until they proved that they were not to be trusted. But that is just me...
posted on December 6, 2000 03:13:35 PM new
"ExchangePath is not under investigation"
Not under investigation? maybe not, but you sure as hell should be!!
Pam, I have read on these boards several times that you guys acknowleged you screwed up and then say "I'm sorry". Well, Pam <B>DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!</B> Unless you have good reason to believe that an individual account is fraudulant or using a stolen credit card unlock our accounts so those of us <b>stupid</b> enough to use your service can get <b>OUR</B> money out and close up shop with you.
posted on December 6, 2000 04:42:19 PM new
The accounts of those people who signed up for ExchangePath through AuctionWatch should all now be active. We are diligently working to reactivate all other accounts and I hope to post new information on that soon.
Pam
posted on December 6, 2000 05:36:28 PM newMarek here from www.bidpay.com. Would like to suggest you take a peak. We're older than PayPal, we're older than exchangepath... and in fact, we're older than Billpoint.
Excellent job of ambulance chasing there Marek. Unfortunately a lot of buyers find paying $5.00 for a 56 cent money order and 33 cent stamp an still having to depend on snail mail not the end all solution you seem to feel that it is.
posted on December 6, 2000 06:21:28 PM new
Labbie1: In order to keep my web page accurate, I now email and call every payment service I intend to use or recommend on my site. I called Exchangepath and spoke to someone (I believe his name was Brian) for about half an hour. I asked him what EP was going to do in the face of all the fraudulent credit cards that had been used on that site. He said they were considering options. I asked him why they didnt just send the seller the cardholder's address with an instruction to ship to that address only. He said that was one of the suggestions brought up at a meeting and would probably be instituted soon. Now if you go to this thread http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=2&thread=292380&id=293004 second page, you will see that EP's rep here on AW says that EP won't do this because it violates the buyer's privacy. When I asked how can a buyer expect to use a credit card to make a mail order purchase and yet keep their address private, there was no reply. When I asked isn't preventing fraud more important than this silly emphasis on privacy no one asked for - no response. When I asked how is the seller supposed to know if the CC is fraudulent without an address, I got the reply that seller can check other websites to verify buyer's address. When I said that this only proves that buyer lives at that address, it doesnt prove that the credit card used belongs to that buyer - no response. It seems clear to me that despite all the vague promises, EP still doesn't get it. If they expect sellers to accept their service, they have to give sellers a minimal amount of protection. Right now sellers get none. You might as well ship if the buyer emails that they are sending payment because all you get from EP is an empty promise.
posted on December 6, 2000 07:03:13 PM newYisgood Thanks for the clarification.
I believe that they are reconsidering the address confirmation situation and that is why they have instituted this new verification.
It would be a very good thing for the sellers and probably for EP since it would help aleviate some of the fraud if we shipped only to the address to which the CC bill was sent.
posted on December 6, 2000 07:18:02 PM newUntil then, I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt as I did with PayPal as they were going through their fledgling stages until they proved that they were not to be trusted. But that is just me...
So anyone who sets up a web site and claims to be a payment service deserves the benefit of the doubt. You will gladly give them access to all of your credit card information and allow the to accept payent on your behalf until you are personally burned?
Trust is one thing, but blind allegiance to someone you know nothig about and who obviuosly engages in quesionable business practices is something I simply don't understand.
posted on December 6, 2000 08:13:32 PM newamalgamated2000 I didn't say blind allegiance.
What I said was that it was too bad that every service is now tainted by PayPal's actions and so is looked at more skeptically.
I think that EP deserves some credit for at least admitting that they made a mistake--something that I never saw PP do even when they were faced with proof of their mistakes.
It appears that EP is trying to take steps to make their service more safe which is something that everyone wants. It would seem that they have just chosen to begin implimenting in an unfortunate fashion that is leaving a bad taste in people's mouths--largely due to the previous antics of PP.
I would never pledge blind allegiance to a company again. I mean, look at what has happened over the past years beginning with the Ebay "community", PayPal, other online payment services that have come and gone, other auction sites, Ebud...the list could go on and on...
Nope my days of blind allegiance to any service free or otherwise are long gone...
I just don't want to shoot one that has worked well for me because of this error in judgement--large as it was--until I see what was behind the action. If it is the start of more safeguards including address verification, then bring it on!
(Good heavens! I am starting to sound like Judge Mills Lane. )
posted on December 7, 2000 06:24:51 AM new
>>I believe that they are reconsidering the address confirmation situation and that is why they have instituted this new verification <<
On what do you base this belief? I have asked several times why the customer is entitled to keep their address secret and have yet to receive one answer. Doesn't sound like EP is listening.
My only hope is that since EP seems to be copying PP in other ways like freezing accounts, maybe they will copy the address verification PP has recently enacted.
A question EP: if you're going to copy PP's bad actions, why don't you copy the good ones too?
posted on December 7, 2000 06:37:43 AM new
I almost got sucked in on the "free listing" deal; sure am glad I read this thread first!
After the one bad experience I've had with PayPal, I've decided to drop ALL credit card services and accept payment by check or M/O only.
Rum? Tequila? How about just a little ol' Jack Daniels?
posted on December 7, 2000 06:55:58 AM new
I am BEWILDERED about all these folks who state they have had problems with PayPal. I know a number of real business professionals, (a Stock Broker, a Business Owner, etc.) who use PayPal exclusively, and have never had a moment of problem with PayPal. I know these people researched the PayPal company before signing up with it.
I myself have never had a moment's problem with them either, and run an very active business account through them.
Interesting -
Now we also use PayDirect, who I have had endless problems with, and BillPoint, which so few use it is rather useless, but I keep it since I occasionally use eBay. In my books PayPal is great!
I haven't used EXchange because of all the immediate problems, and because 99% of our customers are PayPal users. I don't see with 3 such services I need anymore.
I am sure time will weed out the less professional of these firms and we will all know which is best, regardless of what our personal opinions are at this time.
posted on December 7, 2000 07:18:25 AM newjwpc I didn't have a "problem" with PP per se, but they did take money from my checking account before we were actually even able to fund our accounts with our checking accounts. The only way that you could use a checking account was to have funds electronically transferred to that instead of a paper check mailed to you.
They did resolve the problem and give my money back, however, they never announced to people that there was a glitch so that people could check their bank statements for a problem and later, after giving the information to Damon, all I got was "we are checking to see if there was a glitch in the system at that time".
He would never actually say, "yes, that was definitely a mistake on our part and we apologize."
The closest he came was to say that all companies have glitches and problems, but the mark of a truly good company is how quickly they find the error and correct it.
Well, they never did find the error in my case. I had to contact them 6 weeks later when I was checking my bank statement and then it took a total of almost 4 months to get it back--all with the work done by ME!
Using Damon's definition, they are not a very good company.
That would not have upset me so much except that they never would admit to making a mistake.
THAT upset me when Damon was all over the boards saying that PP never made any mistakes that were not the consumer's fault. Obviously, mine wasn't because we didn't have the option of funding our accounts from our Checking at the time it happened (Feb, 2000).
I cannot do business with a company that lies to me (with the exception of Ebay, I suppose. )
At least EP said that they made a mistake and took it on the chin and are hopefully taking steps to correct it.
yisgood My info about the address verification came from a phone conversation that I had with them yesterday on the issue. I was told that the first step in helping to eliminate fraud was to get correct addresses and verified accounts and part of the discussions on the verification was to allow us to match the billing addresses of folks using the system. They understand that we as sellers wish to be able to have a part in protecting ourselves from fraud as much as they want to eliminate as much fraud as possible.
I also put in my 2 cents about freezing only the portion of an account that is in doubt in a fraudulent payment situation. I made it known that freezing a seller's whole account over a certain disputed figure from a buyer who was using a fraudulent card and continuing to accept payments into the frozen account is unacceptable as we sellers need our cash flow. They assured me that they are in discussions as to how they can protect the sellers by only limiting the hold to the disputed amount and not freezing the whole amount. I understand that there is some heavy duty programming involved in that situation which must be addressed.
Again, at least they admit to making some mistakes. That is a plus in my book as long as they correct things. I know it takes time to find the best solutions to these types of problems and I believe they are on the issue.
Considering that at PP live Customer Service was a joke and Risk Management non existent to the extent that they could be contacted for a real conversation, I have to give EP credit there as well...
Edited because I forgot what year it was.
[ edited by labbie1 on Dec 7, 2000 07:30 AM ]
posted on December 7, 2000 07:22:42 AM new
>> My info about the address verification came from a phone conversation that I had with them yesterday on the issue. I was told that the first step in helping to eliminate fraud was to get correct addresses and verified accounts and part of the discussions on the verification was to allow us to match the billing addresses of folks using the system<<
And I was told the same thing on the phone 7 weeks ago but just two days ago right here on AW, their rep said they would NOT give us the address. Since people are more apt to lie verbally and privately than publicly and in writing, I would have to say that what was posted is accurate and EP does not plan on giving sellers any real protection against fraud. Note that they did not respond to my questions asking why.
posted on December 7, 2000 07:38:30 AM newAnd I was told the same thing on the phone 7 weeks ago but just two days ago right here on AW, their rep said they would NOT give us the address.
And their representative is correct. At this time, they don't give out the addresses. That is the current official position, which doesn't mean it won't change for the better.
I don't believe that we were lied to, but I do believe that things are a bit chaotic as they try to put into place the safeguards that they believe to be the best for all parties involved while continuing to fight fraud from all levels AND answer customer's concerns.
I will not say that this time is a comfortable time for users (change never is), but I do think that EP intends to make their system better with the user's safety concerns in mind.
posted on December 7, 2000 08:02:04 AM new
Thanks, labbie1. Right now we do not provide addresses and I did post a message stating that this is our current policy. However, yisgood has raised some valid points that will be evaluated after all of the current security improvements are in place.
posted on December 7, 2000 08:21:10 AM new
Pam: Thanks for that response. What both buyers and sellers are looking for is a service that is secure. Due to very problematic credit card rules you are probably very aware of, most current services are structured so that even a mediocre crook can have a field day. A service has to come out with clear rules (and stick to them, unlike one of your competitors) that say: "If a seller does the following, they will be safe against fraud and charge backs and if a buyer does the following they will be protected against seller fraud." Right now I can get a payment from EP, PP and several others with a US address that I can even look up on anywho.com. I can ship to that address and retain proof of shipping. Then they buyer can claim fraud and if it turns out the credit card used belonged to someone else (even a relative) I'm stuck. With some services, it can even be the right credit card and I'm still stuck.
As a seller, I refuse to accept a payment that can be taken back for any reason or even for no reason months after the sale. I will continue to educate other sellers and buyers as to the rights they give up if they work through a third party service that hasn't thought it out clearly. Those services that show they will give us some protection (100% isnt possible, but let's at least try for 75%) will be the ones I will recommend. And yes, I expect to pay for this service. Right now Achex and Moneyzap are the only two I know of that do this for free (at the moment) and Bidpay is the best fee service.
I have been here bashing PP, EP and to some extent Paydirect. Unlike some others, I am not wishing for them to go bankrupt. I am calling for them to come to their senses so that I can recommend them.
Credit card rules have for too long been one-sided and easy for the crooks to misuse. There has been lots of press about it. The Internet and the power of numbers and the pay services might just give us enough of a voice to bring about a level playing field.
posted on December 7, 2000 08:31:08 AM new
Hi Pam. I am assuming it is Pam.
I think we would all like to have at least the following in place:
1) Confirmation of the name and address of the cardholder.
2) If a transaction is in question for fraud, only freeze that amount in the account of the "innocent" party or put a "lein" against that amount of money, while still allowing the "innocent" party to function as a business with full use of the undisputed funds. If this is not possible (and I don't see why it isn't) at least don't take payments to that account during the process while the account is frozen!
I am sure there are more great thoughts that would help to weed out the fraudulent users, but these two seem to be two that would help us sellers help ourselves and you to protect against fraud.
yisgood Whew! I am sure glad to see you say that you aren't trying to bankrupt these services! I really thought you were!
I do agree that I would like to have the opportunity to be more proactive with the ability to help stem fraud through my account.
posted on December 7, 2000 08:40:19 AM new
>>yisgood Whew! I am sure glad to see you say that you aren't trying to bankrupt these services! I really thought you were<<
No, what I was trying to do was keep folks from signing on until they work it out. I have not closed my PP, EP or PD accounts, I just tell folks I dont accept them. Some services have an attitude that as long as folks keep signing on, they can keep doing what they're doing. Just look at how Damon keeps reminding us how many people are signing up for PP despite the horror stories. Unfortunately, many businesses don't respond to complaints. It takes a massive boycott before they get the message. Sometimes by then it's too late.
By the way, has EP started a strange way of operating? Someone who won an auction of mine several weeks ago just sent me an EP payment. I got the email notice but it says that it takes 2 days for the funds to be available. That doesnt bother me. What does is that my account shows nothing, not even a pending payment. Is that how it works now?
posted on December 7, 2000 09:10:08 AM newyisgood It is a temporary thing...I don't know how they show up or when...
"Important new changes to your account! (12/5/2000)
In addition, please note: Funds from send money transactions may be pending for up to two days before they will be available in the
recipient's account. We appreciate your patience and support. This procedure is temporary. "
posted on December 7, 2000 09:48:10 PM new
Hey Pam, just checking to see which accounts you have reactivated because I STILL do not have access to MY money yet.
Also I am anxiously sitting by my computer waiting for a reply to my THREE unanswered emails.
What sort of time-line do you have in mind for reactivating those accounts which were frozen?
edited because my html attempt bites!
[ edited by cmbtboots on Dec 7, 2000 10:22 PM ]
[ edited by cmbtboots on Dec 7, 2000 10:23 PM ]
posted on December 8, 2000 11:17:30 AM new
cmbtboots,
The review/re-opening of accounts is still taking place and we expect to finish the bulk of it over the weekend. We are making progress through the backlog of emails and phone calls. Just so you know, we are implementing a few more systems upgrades this weekend, so a small number of accounts my still be affected early next week.
Thanks for your continued patience. This process is perhaps slower than one might hope, but in the long run, will protect sellers from receiving fraudulent funds in their ExchangePath accounts.
Pam
Will you continue to unilaterally change the rules and lock the accounts of anyone who has not complied.
For example, perhaps you could instate a $10 per month membership fee. Then you could lock the accounts of anyone who has not paid this fee, regardless of the amount in the account.
I know this sounds ridiculous, but how, in principle, is this any different from what you have already done??
Moreover, this was clearly a bad decision on EP's part. Yet instead of sending an apology to members for the inconvenience, you send an accusation. All I want to know is how you can possibly defend this action?
posted on December 8, 2000 01:25:33 PM new
Well I know that "small number of accounts my still be affected early next week" is a crock because my account was suspended long before this fiasco and I have not heard one thing from EP other than the auto-generated responses.
posted on December 14, 2000 12:58:01 AM new
I have $70 plus in my account. It says suspended when I try to log in. I've sent several e-mail to Exchangepath about getting my money transferred out of there and closing my account.
I have over 1000 auction a day on yahoo and Ebay. Beginning tomorrow I will have a RED blinking WARNING to AVOID EXCHANGEPATH. That EXCHANGE PATH IS A DISREPUTABLE BUSINESS.
I am also forwarding a detailed letter regarding my trouble with EXCHANGE PATH to the ATTORNEY GENERALS office of the State of NEW YORK and the BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU.
I suggest other sellers begin Warning bidders away from Exchange Path as well.!!!
)
[ edited by labbie1 on Dec 7, 2000 07:30 AM ]