posted on November 29, 2006 10:20:43 AM new
I was thinking the same thing, Mingo.
Canada's health care SUCKS!
Nationmaster, CIA Factbook, and World Health Organization stats are all wrong. LIARS, all of them! LIARS
BUSH IS GOD!
BTW, linda........ instead of googling negative stuff to rant about each day I think your time would be better spent trying to get those mine fields along the Canada/US border. It will keep those pesky Canadians from using your perfect health system and then they can all die off from Canada's sucky system and you'll never ever have to worry about those Canadians ever again trying to do things better than your country does.
posted on November 29, 2006 12:38:52 PM new
Funny how I don't remember President Bush having a THING to do with this subject when old liberal hillary tried to get it passed in the early '90's.
Seems to me that the American public pretty much told her to 'stuff it'.
And canadian's were suffering in pain with long waiting lists - RATIONED care - even way back then.
I see no liberal was willing to address my question.
Must be because they KNOW they wouldn't be TURNING to our private med. care IF theirs were working so well. But since it's NOT..they're turning to OUR way of doing it.
"While the democratic party complains about everything THIS President does to protect our Nation": "What would a Democrat president have done at that point?"
"Apparently, the answer is: Sit back and wait for the next terrorist attack."
posted on November 29, 2006 01:04:00 PM newI see no liberal was willing to address my question.
Just more of crybaby_K's games. She wants everyone to respond to her question but wont respond to the questions asked to her.
ask you why Americans are coming to Canada for their health care
So Linda why is it that you wont ask other people's questions?
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on November 29, 2006 01:08:20 PM new
Going abroad for health care
MEDICAL TOURISM HEADS TOWARD ROBUST INDUSTRY
By Ann Tatko-Peterson
MediaNews
When Alan Elias played baseball, every step hurt.
The Dublin resident's former HMO plan covered surgery to repair his Achilles tendon, at about $20,000. It wouldn't, however, pay $2,700 for three treatments of a non-invasive procedure known as extracorporeal shock-wave therapy.
So, in December 2004, Elias, 48, flew to Vancouver and underwent the procedure for about $720, saving $1,000 after travel expenses.
Elias is one of many Americans capitalizing on a growing trend.
Once considered a niche for plastic surgery, medical tourism has expanded to include more necessary medical procedures and to fill a gap for uninsured and underinsured Americans.
More than 500,000 Americans traveled out of the country last year for medical or dental work, according to the National Coalition on Health Care. In those numbers are cases of heart bypasses, orthopedic surgeries and expensive dental treatments.
Soon, those cases of individuals seeking care may give way to corporate plans, as well.
In North Carolina, Carl Garrett, 60, became a test case in September for his company, Blue Ridge Paper Products. He flew to New Delhi, India, to have gallstones removed and rotator cuff surgery at a savings of $50,000 for his company.
The surgeries would have cost Garrett $20,000 in the United States. Instead, he received $10,000 as a share of his company's savings.
Savings even with airfare, hotel
In Benicia Samuel ``Jim'' Paggi, 57, was subsisting on yogurt and soup after a bacterial infection left him with only two teeth.
Dentists quoted him $56,000 for dental implants, so he flew to Hungary twice this year and had the same work done for $20,000 -- including airfare and hotel for him and his wife.
This practice has been going on in other countries for years.
Canadians and Britons, frustrated with long waits because of nationalized health care plans, have used medical travel to have procedures done sooner. Asians have long traveled to countries within their region to reduce medical costs.
And as U.S. health care costs have become prohibitive, Americans are joining the legions.
In 2005, 46.6 million Americans had no medical insurance and 120 million were without dental insurance, according to the Census Bureau.
``When you start with those numbers, what . . . do we do?'' asked Marvin Cetron, co-author of ``Hospitality 2010: The Future of Hospitality and Travel'' and founder and president of Forecasting International.
``Forget about going overseas to look pretty or take care of weight loss,'' he added. ``We're talking here about things that people need to have done -- necessary surgery, when we have a slew of people uninsured.''
Alain Enthoven, a senior fellow at Stanford's Center for Health Policy, noted that global health care is becoming an accepted alternative as U.S. health care ``prices itself out of reach.''
Global health care
Signs of that are already present:
• Blue Cross Blue Shield Association has included Wockhardt Hospitals in India among its worldwide network of participating hospitals.
• Insurer Health Net of California contracts with Mexican clinics near the U.S. border.
• United Group Programs in Florida, which caters to self-insured companies, offers options for obtaining medical care at Bumrungrad Hospital in Bangkok, Thailand.
• West Virginia's state Legislature is considering a bill that would encourage state employees to have non-emergency medical surgeries overseas. These employees would fly first class, stay at four-star hotels to recuperate and receive cash bonuses for helping the state save thousands of dollars.
• Starting next year, Blue Ridge Paper Products, which is self-insured, may offer its 2,000 employees and their dependents the same option it gave Garrett: a chance to receive less-expensive medical care abroad.
And Blue Ridge Paper Products' corporate outsourcing may be just the beginning.
Dr. Arnold Milstein, medical director of the Pacific Business Group on Health, told a congressional hearing in June that several large U.S. employers have asked him to assess this option for possible inclusion in their health benefits plans.
How exactly did the United States reach this point?
Once again, it appears to be all about the spiraling costs of U.S. health care.
In 2002, the United States spent $5,267 per capita for doctors' visits, hospitalization and prescription medicine, according to a 2005 study of health care costs in 30 nations. That was almost $2,000 per capita more than Switzerland, the second-highest country.
Major health organizations and physicians' groups blame high costs on escalating malpractice insurance premiums and steep administrative expenses.
Meanwhile, more than a dozen popular medical tourism destinations charge from 25 percent to 80 percent less, depending on the procedure, in their countries.
Effective marketing of overseas health care is turning medical tourism into a robust industry.
In the past five years, at least four major companies have sprung up in the United States to help facilitate medical travel.
Three years ago, MedRetreat, with offices in Chicago and Washington, D.C., started its company by offering cosmetic procedures in two countries. It now provides an extensive network of hospitals and procedures, numbering in the hundreds, in eight countries.
Not everyone has championed medical tourism as a solution for uninsured Americans.
In June, U.S. Sen. Gordon Smith, R-Ore., called for a task force to study safety issues in medical travel. This followed a hearing on the subject by the Special Senate Committee on Aging.
Medical tourism companies are partnering mostly with hospitals receiving accreditation from the Joint Commission on International Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations, which also reviews U.S. hospitals. Started in 1999, the process involves on-site visits every three years from U.S. doctors, nurses and administrators.
But that same protection has only just begun for cosmetic surgery clinics and private practices.
While the American Board of Plastic Surgery has long been certifying U.S. doctors, the International Society of Aesthetic Plastic Surgery only recently signed with Surgery Facilities Resources to offer an accreditation process for its members.
Cosmetic surgery still comprises 80 percent of medical travel, according to providers. It's also teeming with suspect discount deals.
Australia's government recently issued a special travel advisory warning against medical tourism in Thailand. An increased number of Australian women experienced complications after having cosmetic surgery in uncertified clinics.
Kevin Ciresi, a California plastic surgeon, says going abroad is reasonable if the surgeon is well-trained, reputable and provides adequate follow-up treatments. But he cautions prospective patients to consider the potential for complications, out-of-pocket expenses associated with that and, in the absence of malpractice, the lack of legal redress.
``I would put it to patients this way: Would they make the same consideration if they had colon cancer and had to have their colon removed?'' Ciresi asked. ``Essentially, they are going to a different country to save money. Would they try to save money if it were their colon?''
``Plastic surgery is real surgery, too. You have to believe the complications can be real and significant.''
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on November 29, 2006 01:24:49 PM new
"So are you ASSUMING that's because of their socialized health care?
If not...then PROVE it's not because they eat more healthy foods....get more excersise than most American's....the drink more red wine....etc...etc...etc.
Because they live longer than we do doesn't mean that's BECAUSE of their health are system....it can be because of hundreds of lifestyle differences."
Every population has a percentage that succumb as a result of disease, regardless of diet or life style. If the progression of a disease or condition is held in check or compromised by medical intervention the life span of the affected is increased and a higher average life span is realized in the entire population.
Therefore, it should be apparent that there exist a correlation between health-care and the longevity of any population, and quality healthcare is instrumental in increasing the longevity of any given population.
posted on November 29, 2006 01:34:52 PM newI see no liberal was willing to address my question.
Linda, I'm not sure if you consider me a 'liberal' but I answered your question several times and as usual you were consumed with such hate-filled rage and were so busy copying and pasting crap you closed your mind and failed to absorb it.
But I couldn't help but notice how you avoided my question.
posted on November 29, 2006 04:33:41 PM new
Linda says... "I have AGAIN noticed that none of those who come to the defense of socialized medicine have answered MY question... Can't ANY of you answer a simple question."
"IF socialized medicine is the ANSWER....then why are some Nations, like Cananda, turning to using OUR system....private care?"
Linda who is saying socialized medicine is THE answer? There are only 2 options that I know of with health care - you either all pitch in to pay or you pay for yourself.
As for privitization, it's not the act itself. It's the fact that the ONLY ones pushing for it are the wealthy. They aren't remotely interested in the poor or sick. They're interested in the money machine it will create.
posted on November 29, 2006 06:56:10 PM new
hillbillymo -
IF that were true...then canada's 'life average' wouldn't be very good at all....since their patients have such extremely long waits to get problems taken care of. That's certainly not preventative care, by any means. That's poor care...those long, long waits.
=============
And LOL at logansdad's alternative.
Yep....bet all those who can't/won't pay for their OWN medical coverage are just going to be SO willing to pay to fly to another country for surgery. LOL LOL
Cost of flight
costs of hotel/motel room
etc.
Those have to be included in the total costs of ANY surgery.
It's no solution.
But yes, I've read about people traveling to have cheaper plastic surgeries done....they've been doing that for years. Some with frightening surgery results also...as some 'doctors' really weren't 'doctors' after all.
But hey....any one who wishes to have any surgery done in another country where it's cheaper.....I say go for it. If you don't care what their 'standards' are compared to ours.
"While the democratic party complains about everything THIS President does to protect our Nation": "What would a Democrat president have done at that point?"
"Apparently, the answer is: Sit back and wait for the next terrorist attack."
posted on November 30, 2006 12:46:14 PM newYep....bet all those who can't/won't pay for their OWN medical coverage are just going to be SO willing to pay to fly to another country for surgery. LOL LOL
Spoken like a true Republican.
What you fail to realize Linda, is that people are going overseas for major surgeries for the savings.
Linda would rather not spend a couple thousand dollars on a flight for a surgery that would save her tens of thousands of dollars. With this logic is no wonder why Bush has put this country into debt.
This is the same person that doesnt want to spend a little bit of money to help blind people with their cash but has not problem spending billions of dollars on a war.
Absolute faith has been shown, consistently, to breed intolerance. And intolerance, history teaches us, again and again, begets violence.
---------------------------------- The duty of a patriot in this time and place is to ask questions, to demand answers, to understand where our nation is headed and why. If the answers you get do not suit you, or if they frighten you, or if they anger you, it is your duty as a patriot to dissent. Freedom does not begin with blind acceptance and with a flag. Freedom begins when you say 'No.'
posted on November 30, 2006 12:59:21 PM new
Linda,
Since it has become evident that somethings are beyond your scope of comprehension, you
should quit wasting your money on health insurance premiums and put that money to better use.
