posted on December 13, 2000 11:17:51 PM new
Boy, did they goof THIS idea up, huh?
The only two situations I can see where this would be useful is on very expensive items where prank bidding is expected, or (and I'm stretching it here) possibly a seller might use it as a "bonus" auction where only his/her established customers can bid on the item. (What a pain to keep up with a customer list, though!)
I too would have been much happier with a blacklist feature, instead of this!
(edited 'cuz I typed "only" instead of "on" -- sheesh!)
[ edited by thedewey on Dec 13, 2000 11:18 PM ]
posted on December 14, 2000 04:35:32 AM new
So when are the rocket scientists going to trot out a "pre-approved seller" feature for us hapless bidders? You know, something that will let us know if a seller is going to rip us off in some manner: "THIS SELLER IS A SLEAZE BUCKET. BID AT YOUR OWN RISK, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE MONEY YOU WANT TO THROW AWAY!"
Maybe I'm being naive, but I thought my glowing feedback would automatically make me a good bidder. Silly me.
The day I hand over some sort of information for the "privilege" of bidding is the day I stop bidding entirely.
On the other hand, it could be ebay's way of driving small sellers off the site to make way for even more retailers...Nah. That would be far too devious for the above mentioned rocket scientists.
posted on December 14, 2000 05:01:59 AM new
Well....lets say that it is a step in the right direction.
Ebay, for once, seems to have provided an additional tool for Sellers to be able to act in their own best interest and qualify their bidders......just like a real auctioneer.
Instead, people are carping about how it is not good for them. This is a step towards Bidder Verification.......too little, way too late.....but it is SOMETHING!
Oh....and about the buyers who do not like it. Thats just too bad......Ebay's responsibility is to those who pay them....not to those who USE them. This tool is yet another support of the claim of Ebay as venue....and Sellers as their own Auctioneer.
posted on December 14, 2000 06:18:47 AM newDr. Trooth: On the contrary, without the bidders, the sellers make no money and ebay doesn't get paid. Sellers are users as well, in that they use the ebay venue to make their money.
Plus, my life wouldn't change one iota if I suddenly stopped bidding. Could sellers say the same if they suddenly stopped selling?
Frankly, I dislike the belief of sellers vs. bidders that seems to be held by so many on ebay. Sellers and bidders have a symbiotic relationship-without the one, the other doesn't exist and both depend upon ebay to continue the relationship. Bidders and sellers should be working together, not against each other.
posted on December 14, 2000 10:22:39 AM new
The way I understand it, this option will be extremely useful in the case of a high-ticket item for which the bidders' intent and identities need to be verified before bidding. I've seen auctions that say it's necessary to be preapproved, but eBay hasn't previously provided a mechanism of doing that.
Even though most of us will never use it, I think it's a great idea to have the option of bidder verification if you're selling something like a house, a business, or maybe even a car.
A "blacklist" would be more helpful for the general population of eBay sellers, though, myself included.
posted on December 14, 2000 10:31:36 AM new
Yahoo has the right idea by allowing the creation of a list of bidders you don't want as opposed to the brilliant minds at eBay who are proposing making a list of who you do want.
When dealing with so many unknowns and variables, that is all of the registered users on eBay, and the folks who may register to bid on an item, the only sane way to create a list is by exception, (those users you don't want to bid).
Will eBay make a list of all registered users available for the pre-approved list? Anyone have a few weeks to plow through millions of users to add to your list?
There seems to be no end to the flow of dumb ideas from eBay.
posted on December 14, 2000 12:38:48 PM new
Mr. Deer, et al. thank you for the respectufull, yet pointed way in which you disagreed with my point. I mean it. I do not care who agrees or who does not....its the dialogue that is important.
So......as I have read on other Boards about this Feature....I will state that it does seem that this too is not too well thought out by the PTB@Ebay. Too much work for the Seller to opt-in selectee clients. It is MHO that the PTB are perhaps aiming this towards those who have much higher end sales with limited and known clientele. Of course....if you DO KNOW who these people are....why does one need Ebay?
Oh well......another Feature that my quarters support but has no benefit for us.
posted on December 14, 2000 02:24:53 PM new
Hi Julsey. The announcement on the AB Board says: Bolding is mine
QUOTE
"Today, we are rolling out a pilot version of the Pre-approve Bidder tool. The tool gives all sellers the ability to allow only pre-approved buyers the opportunity to bid on items registered through the Pre-approve Bidder tool. Currently there is no fee associated with using this feature."
END QUOTE
I assume the term "currently" means there will be a fee eventually. BTW, I think I'm going to have to break down and pay retail for my Mom's handbag.
I think RainyBear is correct about this feature being useful for really high ticket items like real estate, a car or a rare baseball card. However, I find the entire concept disappointing because it will have no value to the average seller. I was hoping eBay would come up with a way to help with the deadbeat problem or the fraud and shilling situation which I think is escalating and instead they came up with a feature that will be useful to only a select few of it's user base.
It just looks like FLUFF to me with no real substance. I'm sure the implementation of this buyer pre-approval feature will also cause "functionality" issues with eBay's site performance and for what?
posted on December 14, 2000 02:49:42 PM new
As I was reading this announcement I'm sure if there had been a mirror in front of me my jaw would have been hitting my desk!
I knew someone would have started a thread on it, so I just had to add me .02 for what it's worth.
My only question really is this: How am I supposed to make a pre-approved bidder list when I don't know "who" would bid on this, unless I sell like items and I have a set of regular bidders? BUT wait - by doing this wouldn't I be losing money because new collectors wouldn't be able to bid without asking permission?
What a stupd a** idea this was. The idiot who thought it up probably makes in excess of 6 figures too! Go Figure!
posted on December 14, 2000 03:03:36 PM new"On the other hand, it could be ebay's way of driving small sellers off the site to make way for even more retailers."
You know, I keep rolling this around in my head (rattle, rattle) and I keep coming up with the same conclusion. What major retailer (Fry's, Office Depot, K-Mart, etc.) would put up with a fraction of the crap that eBay sellers go through? The site instability, the deadbeat bidders, the feedback issues, eBay's never-ending bag of dirty tricks ....
Bringing in retailers is a pipe dream. Maybe a few have been suckered in so far, but can it last? It seems to me eBay is ignoring one important rule of sales: don't mess with a successful formula. Rather than integrating retailers into eBay.com, it would make more sense to create a separate business-to-person site. I just don't see any major retailer being willing to put up with eBay's pranks.
posted on December 14, 2000 03:40:56 PM newWell....lets say that it is a step in the right direction....Yes! Straight for the quick sands... GlubGlubGlub...bubblebubblebubble.....
Ebay, for once, seems to have provided an additional tool for Sellers....Yes! A 200lbs sledge hammer....
Just teasing...But I truly do not see much benefit. As we all agree, a BIDDER BLOCK list would be more helpful...Keep the SAME NPB from re-occuring.
posted on December 14, 2000 03:45:34 PM new
Many of the BIG ticket items need pre approval for bidders, from the sellers,
and my guess is that eBay felt this feature would make it appear they weren't just catering to the BIG boys & girls.
Now even us little peons can pre approve our bidders. WoW.
posted on December 14, 2000 04:00:58 PM new
Hi again Blanche --
Ah...it's for mom; what a great daughter she has! You know, I did see that bag, in the burgundy color, on ebay, if you want the auction #. The seller is new though, and doesn't guarantee authenticity, so I'm a little skeptical. Still, if you want to check it out, let me know.
***
About the new feature...I agree some type of verification for high-ticket items is a good idea, if the seller wants to use that. Doesn't ebay's Great Collections have just that feature? So why not give seller's of high ticket items on ebay's regular site that option? Instead, though, they give some mutated version which looks to be a PITA to use. Makes no sense.
posted on December 14, 2000 06:03:55 PM new
The only reason I could see why eBay would create this option is for deals that happen after auction. You know, when eBay goes down and people can't bid - they contact the seller and make their deal - eBay loses commission.
So this new feature is eBay's way of recouping their losses by giving the buyer that "feel good" option of still doing an after auction deal with a seller, but with the "protection" of eBay's rules.
So Seller relists the item and only allows bidder A to bid. Once bidder makes the bid, auction cancelled - Ebay gets commission for item that originally did not sell and was negotiated between the parties outside of eBay.
THIS REALLY IS NOT WHAT I BELIEVE!! However, it is food for thought!!!
Everyone is correct - this is the STUPIDEST thing I have ever seen eBay do.
www.xenavalloneantiques.com
posted on December 14, 2000 11:16:07 PM new"Please use this feature cautiously as it may limit the number of bids on your item."
!!!
I typically pass on an auction if the seller makes it necessary for me to email for the shipping charges before bidding. Not likely I'm going to be emailing him for permission to bid!
Some months back someone posted a thread here about auctioning off items from their parents' estate -- can't remember the exact gist of it, though I recall there was a lot of speculation that it was a troll thread -- but one poster made a point that sometimes families will run a private, family-only auction as a way for surviving family members to compete for heirlooms and other items in the estate, so the stuff ends up in the hands of the family member who wants it most, with a minimum of squabbling. I could see this feature being utilized for that purpose. Or, for an extremely valuable, expensive, rare item. Other than that ... ?
[ edited by triplesnack on Dec 14, 2000 11:19 PM ]
posted on December 15, 2000 09:45:47 AM new
As a buyer (I'm not a seller), I can only imagine this option being of use for private and/or very high-end auctions. Excluding the impossible idea of having to list 15,999,997 other IDs just to exclude the 3 who have given them trouble, this would mean more email for the seller to deal with (from bidders looking for approval to bid), only to end up with far less bids in the end (not just from bad bidders wanting easier targets, but from good bidders not wanting yet one more step).
I think the concept really boils down to this: a way of forcing, if the seller so chooses, all bidders to contact the seller before their first bid, as an attempt to weed out the less serious bidders, who will either decline the contact request or will email but not sound "right" to the seller. It won't entirely exclude deadbeat bidders, but it could help. Usually, the sellers of high-end items want some sort of bid-time contact from the bidders, such as a fax or some other verification.
Excluding such high-end auctions, however, this list, while still theoretically useful, could end up turning off too many bidders not interested in yet another step in the auction (or possibly having to ID verify) process -- and the seller would have to deal with more emails and work to check the bidder. Also, snipers, for good or bad, would have a great deal of difficulty participating (they'd have to put in an earlier, "token" bid to later snipe). It'd likely end up being more work for the seller, for fewer good bids. I'm not a seller, though, so I'm just speculating.
Personally, if I had to pre-contact each and every seller whose items I'd want to bid on, I'd be far less likely to bid, as there is already enough to do.
So while it makes sense for high-end items, and it still makes some sense (in a strictly theoretical way) for lower-end items, in practical terms, I think it would cause more work than benefit on non-high-end items. I think a lot of buyers won't bother with such additional steps, and some good bidders are going to balk at the ID verification thing.
What would help those who sell non-"high end" items more is a blacklist of some sort, as already mentioned. From what I see, that would help far, far more sellers, whose volume probably (just guessing) makes up the larger fraction of eBay's fee income. OTOH, it seems like more of eBay's decisions of the last year have helped the high-end or retail parts than the old bread-and-butter side of things.
(And all the while, these options make eBay's code ever more complicated, on a site not known for its stability. )
----
What's being done in the name of direct marketing nowadays is crazy.
The above are all just my opinions, except where I cite facts as such.
Oh, I am not dc9a320 anywhere except AW. Any others are not me.
Is eBay is changing from a world bazaar into a bizarre world?
posted on December 15, 2000 10:22:17 AM new
It seems obvious to me that this "enhancement" is meant for sellers of really big ticket items.
Wanna sell your estate in the country? That Honus Wagner baseball card your Grandaddy left to you? Decided to re-decorate and those Van Gogh's just won't cut it in the new decorative scheme?
Sell 'em all on eBay. By invitation only. Potential buyers will have to pass inspection.
This is eBay's way of making sure urchins like us can only press our noses against the window as the folks who "count" enjoy the feast by the fireside. Heaven forbid that an auction in a "public" venue be open to the "public".
Money talks, folks. And the big money talks loudest of all.
posted on December 15, 2000 11:16:17 AM new
I have already seen a couple of variations of this on eBay already. There is one seller who sells very high end jewelry and his auctions state that if you bid, you will be notified by email for a verification of your address. If you don't respond then your bid will be cancelled. On another auction being run for charity, the ad said a company would be notifying bidders for address verification. Again, if you failed to respond, the bid would be cancelled. I really think the concept is to discourage pranksters. I can't see this helping the average seller. Since the sellers who choose to run their auctions this way are already doing it, seems like a waste of time on eBay's part.
posted on December 15, 2000 11:39:28 AM new
As I read it, it appears that they are saying that they will run a credit check through the credit bureaus, which would require giving our SS# and other such info.
They were kicking this suggestion around about the same time that the "only a dollar" fiasco hit and at that time I stated that the day that I needed a credit check and SS# to sell on Ebay was the day that I am outta here! They just don't need that kind of info, nor do I trust them to handle that type of info correctly.
I mean, these are the people who want to send your user info with every eoa e-mail.
posted on December 15, 2000 11:42:20 AM new
UPDATE: Okay, I looked to see what all was involved and here is the info:
"How it works:
Verification involves a simple two-step process. In the first step, you are asked to fill out a questionnaire with your name, address, driver's license information, date of birth, Social Security Number (which is optional) and other information that helps to identify you. In the second step, you are asked questions based on information contained in your consumer report, obtained from Equifax Credit Information Services, Inc. You are asked to identify certain installment and credit accounts, and their associated monthly payments. This personal credit information should be known to you and generally not others, so the accuracy of your responses should verify your identity.
For more information, visit the ID Verify FAQ.
Fee:
Verification costs $5 and is valid for one year. "
posted on December 15, 2000 01:12:32 PM new
As I read it, this pre-approval option and the buyer verification program are separate, independent features. I don't think buyers would need to go through the "verification" process to bid on one of the "pre-approval" auctions, unless the seller made it a requirement. I think the seller can set whatever requirements he wants for the "pre-approval" auction; bidders, prior to bidding, would just have to demonstrate to the seller that they meet whatever requirements he sets. Then it's the seller's option to "put him on the list." A bidder who goes through the eBay "verification" process does not automatically get to bid on the "pre-approval" auctions - it's still entirely at the discretion of the seller.
It now occurs to me (and I think there's another thread on this topic floating around here somewhere) that some sellers put in their auction listing, "NO BIDS FROM BIDDERS WITH ZERO FEEDBACK." I don't think this conforms to eBay's rules -- a seller is within his rights to cancel bids from bidders with zero feedback, but if a zero feedback bidder sniped the item, giving the seller no chance to cancel, I believe eBay would consider it a successfully completed auction. It seems to me if a seller wants to prohibit zero feedback bidders from bidding on his auctions, this "pre-approval" feature is the method he would need to use in order to conform to eBay's rules.
[ edited by triplesnack on Dec 15, 2000 04:41 PM ]
posted on December 15, 2000 03:30:42 PM new
Ugh. My credit rating is good; but that's one more reason I don't want a lot of additional companies poking around in it. I do have to say that eBay's ID verify FAQ (I looked for it after labbie1's post) does indicate some semblance of care, but I'm not an expert on all the ins and outs of handling of credit information (other than knowing some of it can be sold to direct marketers by the big three credit bureaus, which I'm none too happy about), so I'm not sure how solid it really is. That's one trouble with things like this and privacy statements: you rarely know for sure if you're understanding it, and the implications, all correctly and completely.
One strong warning, however, regardless of the above: I would never give out an SSN except where I absolutely had to.
The Social Security Administration, IRS, banks, and employers definitely need this information. At least some state DMVs require it some reason (deadbeat dads? ). Mortgage companies ask, to see how much credit you can carry reliably. Insurance companies also ask for some reason that's still not entirely clear to me. Unfortunately, there is no clear dividing line that I've seen, and other companies can ask for the SSN, and will sometimes refuse service without it, so the boundaries of good use are fuzzy.
The SSN is the #1 best piece of information for identity theft. Invalid credit card charges will usually (check your CC terms) cost "just" $50 (and might hurt your rating if you get hit too many times), but identity theft is far more damaging and far more difficult to correct. At ~750,000 cases last year and growing explosively, I still have to draw a line, by giving out my SSN only to those who I know -- or can convince me that I need to -- provide it, and otherwise stick to the principle that the less exposure, the less risk.
So if you feel you need to eBay ID verify, I'd say exercising your option to provide only your DL#, and not both your DL# and SSN, is something I'd recommend, but that is my opinion.
Here are some pieces of information I'd always think about before jumping to provide, roughly in order of concern/care:
1) SSN,
2) Mother's maiden name (more important than it seems; though easier to find, no reason to advertise either),
3) Passwords/PIN# (enter it only where it is usually needed; anyone asking separately for it should raise a red flag: scams are common),
4) Bank account numbers (yes, your checking # is on the checks, but that is both necessary and one of a few reasons to keep less liquid money in checking than savings),
5) DL# (sometimes used as verification, but don't need to give it out carelessly),
6) CC# ("obviously" needs to be used, but I don't use it for every little purchase, and also take care at restaurants or other locations where it is not swiped in my direct sight), and
7) Other account numbers (if/when you throw out bills, insurance claims records, and old tax returns, shred them, along with any "personalized" parts of the credit card offers that arrive via junk mail).
I'm probably forgetting a few others, but am already getting increasingly OT, so I'll cut it here.
P.S. Some colleges, foolishly in my opinion, make their students' SSNs into ID numbers. Some are realizing the problem, and ceasing the practice. Some will honor requests to base the number on something else. I'm not sure about the rest.
posted on December 15, 2000 03:40:27 PM newtriplesnack is correct: from what I can see, the pre-approve thing and the verify ID thing are two separate items. The connection made was at eBay, where it was stated:
[begin quotation, double dashes are my replacements for eBay's dots]
How can I pre qualify bidders?
Here are a few recommendations:
-- Ask US bidders registered on the US site to be ID Verified (Sellers can look for the ID Verify icon of the bidder in their feedback profile.)
-- Check bidders Feedback Profile - look for feedback scores, historical bidding amounts, and retraction history
-- Bidder Search - Understand the bidding history of the potential bidder
[end quotation]
eBay is giving ideas, but it's still up to the seller on what basis/bases they wish to pre-qualify, other than some eBay-imposed limitations (e.g. closed or suspended accounts). So ID verification might not always be the means of pre-qualification. They are separate, albeit potentially connected, concerns/issues/benefits/whatever.
[ edited by dc9a320 on Dec 15, 2000 03:41 PM ]
posted on December 15, 2000 04:15:54 PM new
As I said. The day that my SS# is required on Ebay--be it because Ebay requires it, or verification becomes such a popular option with sellers that you pretty much have to do it--I am OUTTA here! Grrrrrr....
*************
Fill hungry tummys this Holiday Season with the NFL and Chunky Soup: http://www.chunky.com/click_cans.cfm
posted on December 15, 2000 05:22:12 PM new
If they gave the option of only allowing verified bidders I would go for that for items that are several thousand dollars.
However why do they need to do it annually? Are you going to change idenity?
posted on December 15, 2000 05:26:15 PM newgravid You mean you DON'T?!
*************
Fill hungry tummys this Holiday Season with the NFL and Chunky Soup: http://www.chunky.com/click_cans.cfm
GlubGlubGlub...bubblebubblebubble.....
