posted on December 7, 2006 02:12:28 PMSo...it's not JUST and issue of being in a different country.
Nobody said it was. You'll notice coincoach's first word:
Sometimes
____________________________________________
May 1, 2003, America brings "democracy" to Iraq. November 7, 2006, Iraq brings democracy to America.
posted on December 7, 2006 02:12:28 PMSo...it's not JUST and issue of being in a different country.
Nobody said it was. You'll notice coincoach's first word:
Sometimes
____________________________________________
May 1, 2003, America brings "democracy" to Iraq. November 7, 2006, Iraq brings democracy to America.
posted on December 7, 2006 02:27:13 PM
lol....I didn't MISS one word of what he said.
I'm sure it's still okay for me to post what I want to...without you telling me what I missed.
mexico has always had major problems with sanitation, hygiene, water related diseases.
Why you take all this so personally is beyond me. lol
CA and mexico have been working on mexico poluting the beaches in San Diego since the '60's.
Their hygiene is NOT as good as it it here....yet you get all defensive when anyone posts the TRUTH about why so much of our food coming from mexico is causing US citizens many severe health problems...even killing us
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"While the democratic party complains about everything THIS President does to protect our Nation": "What would a Democrat president have done at that point?"
"Apparently, the answer is: Sit back and wait for the next terrorist attack."
Ann Coulter
[ edited by Linda_K on Dec 7, 2006 02:29 PM ]
posted on December 7, 2006 02:58:49 PM
Oy vey, Linda! First of all I said SOMETIMES. Being the Queen of Hyperbole, that word must be difficult for you. You are more familiar with ALWAYS, NEVER, WITHOUT EXCEPTION......
Second, I would not be too smug about the US food industry. How often have we read reports of the contamination at the slaughter houses and meat packing companies, where things like intestinal contents have SOMETIMES been found spilling out all over the floor. I actually saw a video of a butcher dropping a slab of meat on a floor covered with intestinal contents. He casually picked it up and continued butchering. I don't know this for sure and would have to check out the facts, but I would venture to say that most of our outbreaks of e.coli and other food-bourne illnesses originated right here in the good old US of A. I am amazed at how many Americans do not wash their hands after using the bathroom. I am not a germophobe, but we all need to use common sense regarding handling, cooking and consuming food, no matter where it originates. To do otherwise could get you a bad bellyache.
By the way, FYI, I am female and my name is Chris.
[ edited by coincoach on Dec 7, 2006 03:02 PM ]
posted on December 7, 2006 03:09:32 PM
Profe---I just wanted to take the time to say I think you are a very wise man. I'm not trying to kiss-up (we don't agree on everything, but very close)but been lurking here for a long time and you are one of my favorites. You appear to be confident, calm and very happy with your life. You have a great sense of humor I bet you're fun at parties, too! Chris
Secondly I wasn't even talking about the food industry HERE in the US.....let alone being "SMUG" about it.
What I WAS doing was adding some information that others might not be aware of.
So....it's NOT always about you...try and remember that.
"While the democratic party complains about everything THIS President does to protect our Nation": "What would a Democrat president have done at that point?"
"Apparently, the answer is: Sit back and wait for the next terrorist attack."
posted on December 7, 2006 06:16:38 PM
Helen that whole last post of lindu's was a hoot....LOL!
Coincoach...see you have to get linduh's PERMISSION to address her.....she is queen and decides who speaks to her and who doesn't....she's also a buffoon...
Is linduh going to defend the great job our GOVERNMENT is doing to keep our food safe?
Or is she going to show how independent she is from the government and tell us who SHE hires to inspect her food from source to table???
posted on December 7, 2006 07:08:40 PM
Ahh, I see Mingo. Thanks for the advice. I must have missed her coronation.
Your Majesty, you did seem to be posting in response to my post you put is a quote of mine in your post--the Profe thought so too. A thousand pardons. When I posted about being smug, I was speaking globally, meaning any one who feels secure because they eat food processed in the USA. I guess that went right over your head. It is not all about you either, Your Majesty, which, by the way, has to be one of the most ironic things you have ever said, albeit inadvertently. Almost every post of yours comes from a view that is all about you.
posted on December 7, 2006 07:40:54 PM
Linda, I'm not taking anything personally. I'm just calling what I see as a jingoistic attitude on the part of you and bear and others as I see it. While you'd like to blame this country's food problems on somebody else, the fact is, our food problems are manifestly ours. You will find if you do some actual research that as many of the contamination problems in this country in recent years were due to local contamination as were due to foreign products. The spinach is a case in point. Please note that bear has not countered to my response to his spurious claim that the spinach was contaminated by feral hogs in fields close to the Mexican border. That's just plain nonsense. The spinach in question was grown in California's central valleys and was, as far as anyone can determine, contaminated with a strain of E-Coli that was also isolated in the manure of neighboring cows. It doesn't have anything to do with Mexico, yet you and your ilk are more than happy to lay the blame there for anyone willing to listen to your silly fantasies. Do Mexican babies die of enteritis? You bet they do, lots more than American babies. On the other hand, far fewer of them die of "shaken baby" syndrome and "sudden infant death". You go find the numbers if you don't believe me. There are fewer people in Mexico with hot running water than there are in the U.S., but the case can also be made that there are fewer people losing their tempers with thier children and shaking them till they die.
Coincoach, thanks for your kind words. I do love my life. It's what I do, what I have always done and what I will always do. By the way, unless you raise your own beef, liver's bad for you. Get your iron from supplements. The liver is a filter organ in cattle just like it is in people, and all the garbage that's fed to commercial beef cattle to make them grow up unnaturally fast is filtered out in their livers. Wash your spinach and enjoy it!
By the way, in case anyone's interested, the dogs got a nice winter coated coyote last night. I managed to get to him in time to save his pelt from being ravaged by the dogs. It's nailed to the barn right now, and he'll not be prowling around the late fall lambs any longer. My son got a new skinning knife for his birthday last month, and this is the first time he's got to use it. He did a very impressive job for his first time skinning something bigger than a rabbit.
____________________________________________
May 1, 2003, America brings "democracy" to Iraq. November 7, 2006, Iraq brings democracy to America.
posted on December 7, 2006 08:02:21 PM
Don't worry Profe, liver never has and never will pass my lips, even before I read your post about the garbage filter. Can't do it. However,spinach is one of my favorite things. Just finished making spinach ravioli which I will freeze and serve at Christmas (it is an old family recipe that my Italian grandmother taught me.)
Another good post, by the way. What a pleasure to read a fact-based, informative post with no SCREAMING! LOL
posted on December 8, 2006 12:10:57 AM
Profe, I know who inspects and controls our food...I was trying to make a point about linduh's defense of our health standards and her aversion to having the government do anything for us...like inspect our food.
Instead of killing coyotes have you tried a llama? No, I'm not one of those "raised on Disney oh don't kill the poor little animals" people, there's a few dogs that didn't make it out of my pasture when I had horses.....it's just that you can't kill ALL the coyotes...it's like trying to kill ALL the spiders in my house...or all those %$^X#%!$# raccoons.....ain't gonna happen. My neighbors have sheep with a llama and a big white shaggy dog(Great Pyraneese?)...can't even slow your car down near their pasture and there they are watching! I heard llamas will even stare down a bear!!! And they hardly stink at all
Yes, Coincoach, profe is very wise and sensible....that's because he lives with many women and they have shaped and formed him...haven't quite whittled down that ego but nobody's perfect ...and he CAN ride a horse....maybe even as well as I can!!!
[ edited by mingotree on Dec 8, 2006 12:13 AM ]
posted on December 8, 2006 12:24:32 AM
Budget Slashes Enforcement at FDA, EPA
The White House�s fiscal year 2006 budget submission will mean big cuts in food and drug safety inspection as well as state enforcement of environmental protections.
FDA
Amidst mounting concern over the safety of our food supply from threats such as mad cow disease and bioterrorism and after a storm of criticism about FDA�s botched inspection of British flu vaccine facilities, which led to a vaccine shortage this winter, FDA�s budget proposes cuts to nearly all of its inspection programs.
The new FDA budget proposes major cuts in both foreign and domestic inspection programs, including significant spending reductions in the following areas:
5 percent for domestic food safety inspections,
5.8 percent for foreign drug plant inspections, and
4.7 percent for inspections of national blood banks.
According to an agency statement given to USA Today, FDA will stretch its meager budget by targeting inspection towards only high risk cases: �Intelligent, risk-based inspections are more important than absolute numbers of inspections.� Still, overall inspections will drop significantly if the proposed budget is approved. Despite FDA promises to Congress to increase vaccine plant inspections from once every two years to once a year in response to the flu vaccine debacle, the number of drug plant manufacturing inspections will drop from 1,430 this year to 1,355 next year. Inspections of foreign drug plants will fall from 515 to 485 per year.
The $1.9 billion budget provides a 4.5 percent overall increase in the FDA budget. FDA has taken the hint from the storm of public outrage over Vioxx and has asked for increased funding for drug safety reviews. The budget also includes an expansion of bioterrorism food safety programs.
Considering the controversy surrounding FDA this past year, the budget cuts for inspection are particularly ironic. Last fall, contamination at a British flu vaccine plant left the U.S. scrambling for vaccines weeks before the flu season. Congressional hearings and news media coverage revealed that the FDA had failed to frequently inspect the plant, which accounted for half of the U.S. flu vaccine supply.
EPA
Bush�s proposed budget for the Environmental Protection Agency not only cuts overall budgetary spending by 5.6 percent but specifically targets money that passes through EPA to the states.
Despite the central role states play in carrying out environmental protections, Bush�s budget request has cut $271 million of EPA funds that pass through the states. In fact, the cuts to the states are proportionally greater than the overall cut in the agency funding request. The White House asked for $400 million less than what Congress allocated to the agency in 2005 and $220 million less than the White House 2005 budget request.
The 2006 budget represents the second year in a row that the state portion of EPA�s budget has decreased while the agency�s portion increased. The ratio of funding that stays at EPA to funding allocated to the states is generally about 5 to 3, which in the past has meant about $3 billion of EPA�s budget has been funneled to the states. On top of that, states spend another $15 billion, approximately, on environmental protections with money that comes from both state sources and permit fees.
EPA delegates 75 percent of its work to the states, and the states are responsible for 90 percent of enforcement efforts. Therefore, as EPA�s portion of funding to the states decreases, so will state enforcement and permitting, according to Steven Brown, executive director of Environmental Council of the States (ECOS).
The situation for state environmental protection is made even more dismal by growing state deficits. Currently 26 states are running a funding deficit, forcing state legislatures to cut discretionary spending, which often includes cuts to environmental enforcement.
Over the past five years, EPA has promulgated 160 new rules that have major impacts on the states. Despite the necessity of these rules to protect public health and the environment, dwindling state funding has hindered implementation and enforcement of these important safeguards. At the same time, environmental enforcement has already dropped off significantly over the past several years.
posted on December 8, 2006 04:48:37 AM
Mingo, I don't try to kill them all. I believe in living here as part of the environment rather than dominating it. There are some critters who know to avoid the lamb pasture. We even have an old mountain lion queen who lives down near the creek who won't come near the place. Our guard dogs are Anatolians who live with the animals full time. Their guarding instinct comes from 2000 years of living with sheep and goats in the mountains of Turkey. They aren't trained, they come by their skills naturally. They never go looking for trouble and won't kill for sport like most dogs will, given the opportunity. But when they corner something they have decided is a threat to "their" babies, they don't quit till the threat is eliminated. They're really amazing dogs. During lambing and kidding season, they rotate around through the ewes who are in labor waiting to help lick the newborns dry and if a ewe is having trouble or a lamb is weak they'll sound an alarm so we know to come and help. I've often had them cuddle up to a newborn who gets dropped on a cold night to keep it warm until morning.
The coyote in question persisted in getting into the lamb pasture after he'd been repeatedly chased off by the dogs. The smart ones survive just fine and god knows we've got plenty of them around. This one got culled for his stupidity. The beauty of natural selection.
I'm running a string of horses this weekend for a bunch of cityboy elk hunters. Wanna go? I'll loan you a real saddle
____________________________________________
May 1, 2003, America brings "democracy" to Iraq. November 7, 2006, Iraq brings democracy to America.
posted on December 8, 2006 05:47:49 AM "I believe in living here as part of the environment rather than dominating it."
It's interesting that human traits used to justify moral superiority are shared by animals and as you mention, one is care for their young. Others mentioned in the linked essay include developing family ties, solving social problems, expressing emotions, starting wars, having sex for pleasure, using language and thinking abstactly...none of which are unique to humans.
posted on December 8, 2006 11:35:36 AM
Interesting article Helen, thanks. I do have a bit of a problem with the abstract thought business though. The other supposedly "human" characteristics can be readily observed in non-humans, but abstract thought is a bit harder to pin down I think. Not that I don't think it's possible in some species, I just don't know how you could prove it in the absence of language.
____________________________________________
May 1, 2003, America brings "democracy" to Iraq. November 7, 2006, Iraq brings democracy to America.
posted on December 8, 2006 02:09:00 PM
That surprised me too, Profe. There was some research done at MIT that seemed to indicate that some neurons of monkeys were focused on the rules of a game...but the performance of the monkeys was probably based on short term memory.
"We do not know how, or even whether, prefrontal cortex neurons can encode abstract rules," the authors write. "Virtually nothing is known about how these abstractions are stored in the brain."
You can't teach a monkey an abstract concept such as world peace, but you can teach it -- with much patience and effort -- to apply a general rule to different situations.
The researchers trained monkeys to identify whether hundreds of different pictures were the same or different. By recording signals from brain cells, or neurons, in the prefrontal cortex of monkeys as they perform cognitive tasks, scientists explore which circuits hold information "in mind," a skill necessary for information processing and thinking.
The monkeys were sometimes required to release a joystick if a picture was the same as the one shown before it and sometimes if the pictures were different. The monkeys could apply the rule to pictures they had never seen before, showing that they were really dealing with abstractions, Wallis said.
After more than nine months of training, the monkeys were able to respond instantly to the rule and were right more than 85 percent of the time. Still, judging by the difficulty of the training, Wallis said this task is about at the limit of the animal's intelligence.
Before each test, the monkey was given cues (a sip of juice or a tone) to indicate whether it was being asked to find a match or non-match. The monkey then looked at the pictures and responded with the joystick.
In each test, the animals had to apply the abstract rule of same or different and recall the individual photos. "By far the majority of the neurons were concerned with the abstract concept than with short-term memory," Wallis said. "Much to our surprise, a huge number of neurons had the rules of the game as their primary concern."
posted on December 8, 2006 07:38:09 PM
I've marveled over the years at the way the dogs I mentioned apparently assess emergencies and dangers and actually decide when to call us and when not to. A lamb or kid in distress may be coddled through the night by them without their barking to alert us, or they may raise holy hell to get us out to the pasture in time to help, depending on the severity of the situation. They're right more often than I am. They chased that coyote out of the pasture three times before finally deciding he was incorrigible the other night. I know it was the same critter due to a large cut he had on one ear that I'd seen before. He was in the same location where they'd found him the other times, and as such was no more of a threat then than he had been previously. A different coyote they may not have killed at all, but merely run off.
We have a goat who delights in opening gates, and will sit and problem solve whatever we've done to confound her. She does this, as far as I can tell, for entertainment. When she gets the gate open, she almost never leaves the pen. She just stands there at the gate and lets the other goats out. I've noticed that she'll try to remove a new clip or rope or whatever using the method she used on the last security measure, and when that doesn't work she sets herself to experimenting. We now use a big spring clip carabiner clipped through the security hole in the gate latch. She has figured out that pushing in the spring clip is the key to removing it, as she will stand there and repeatedly push the clip into an open position with her nose, but the carabiner is too large for her to both push in the clip and move the carabiner up and out of the hole simultaneously. She still works on it, but I think we've finally confounded her. I'm pretty sure she has a good working knowledge of how that carabiner functions, but she doesn't have the dexterity to both open and remove it without hands. I've often thought that what really separates us as humans is our hands, far more than our minds. There are other mammals with hand-like paws, but none have as truly an opposable thumb as we do. That thumb is the key to complex tool manufacture and usage.
____________________________________________
May 1, 2003, America brings "democracy" to Iraq. November 7, 2006, Iraq brings democracy to America.
...and he CAN ride a horse....maybe even as well as I can!!!