posted on December 19, 2000 03:47:39 PM
I just opened a catagory The first thing I see in the featured is a jacket being misrepresented. It says that the jacket retails for $199.00, which it does not. It retails for $89. Would you turn this seller into safe harbor????
posted on December 19, 2000 04:14:40 PM
I sold an item about a month ago, new in the box. On the box it said suggested retail xxx.xx. I put this in the description. Someone emailed me that this could be bought anywhere for xx.xx, why was I stating other price? I did not say I paid xxx.xx for it, I said suggested retail was. I personally see nothing wrong with this. Just because you found a store where you could find it for 89.00, does not mean it sells for 89.00 everywhere. What is there to report to safe harbor? That is not misrepresentation, it is called slick salesmanship. It may not be nice, but it is not illegal. Car salesman do it everyday.
Working in retail for many years, I find that the consumer does not always know the difference between Manufacturers Suggested List Price (MSLP) and Retail. MSLP is what the manufacture SUGGESTS the retailer sell the item for. Retail price is the price that the retailer actually marks the item for and sells it at in their store. It is VERY possible that this seller may sell this jacket for $199.00 in their store. In that case, the seller is neither misrepresenting the item nor lying about its value. Bottom line is, in an auction the BIDDERS determine the final price. If you don't think it is worth more than the $89.00, don't bid. But, I don't think it is an issue for SafeHarbor to become involved with.
posted on December 19, 2000 04:39:48 PM
When I bought my camera, the "suggested retail price" from the manufacturer was something like $450. I bought it for $150 less, and didn't find any company that was selling it for $450. Was the manufacturer doing something illegal? No, and neither is this seller.
posted on December 19, 2000 04:56:55 PM
Retail price can very greatly from area to area.
Many Many department stores these days Dont even sell close to sugested retail these days you will find most mall stores may charge retail and more as where department stores may sell at 33% below retail which is more better know as at sub wholesale priceing and sometimes when things get real slow and they want to sell off inventory they will have a sale offering 30% to 50% more off retail.
a coat you find in a mail order catalog may retail for $200 + shipping you might find this same coat in walmart for $90 to $110.
you could report to safeharbor the fact that retail prices very up to 50% from area to area and malls and mail order catalog companys are higher then retail but there is a good chance they already know this. http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
posted on December 19, 2000 06:00:30 PM
I agree that retail is a subjective price. I often see people in my catagory listing very pumped up retail values.
I think the thing that bothered me more than the retail value was the fact that the seller does not mention anywhere in their TOS that the jackets are patch jackets. They are made from scraps of leather sewn together. She is selling them as geniune leather jackets.
posted on December 19, 2000 10:11:20 PM
A few months ago, I sold a video (Hugo Pool) with an Alyssa Milano nude scene in it...so of COURSE I put that in the title.
I get an e-mail about "she is only topless for about 5 seconds, and if you don't have a quick finger on the pause button, you will miss it"....and the point is?
I did not misrepresent the item, she was nude, and a $2 video sold for @$20...
This seller is not misrepresenting the item.... JMHO
Keith
I assume full responsibility for my actions, except
the ones that are someone else's fault.
posted on December 19, 2000 10:37:39 PM
Msstone - I believe I identified this seller quite easily from your description. You may be unaware that, according to AW's Community Guidelines, I think the seller being discussed must be informed of this thread (in case he/she wants to comment).
I don't know all the technicalities, but any of the Moderators can tell you where to look. Also, I believe they are supposed to lock the thread for a certain amount of time until the seller can be notified of this disucssion.
jada is correct - with the description you have provided, there is enough information to readily identify the Seller in question. In accordance with the CGs, you must:
1. Email an invitation to the Seller, including a link to the thread and the CGs (CCing it to [email protected]
2. Email your full name, address and contact telephone number to [email protected]
3. Wait the mandatory 24 hours before the discussion can continue.
Full details of the requirements can be found in the AW Community Guidelines. I am locking this thread until the requirements have been met.
I have just received the necessary information - thank you for following the CGs. This thread will remain locked for 24 hours to allow the Seller time to receive the inviation and decide if they wish to participate.
If the Seller in question wishes to reopen the discussion earlier, please contact [email protected] and the Moderator on duty will assist.
I am the seller in question. I have proof that the retail of this jacket in question IS $199.95. I do not know why anyone would have to say anything about this because NO ONE will be actually paying this amount as the jackets will probably sell for $20 - $35 per jacket. Has anyone ever heard of advertising? Isn't something on sale basically the same thing? If I told you a product was on sale for $1 compared to $199 wouldn't you think that is a great deal?? Like one person in this thread said, if you think this jacket is worth only $89 and not $199.95 then don't bid on it. I am running a professional business and I am currently licensed to sell in my home state. If anyone wishes to challenge me on this, I would be willing to put up one of the jackets if they can prove me wrong. As for msstone, I see you are also selling or should I say trying to sell a similar leather jacket on ebay. Are you just upset at the fact that my jackets are selling and yours are not? Just curious. I am glad that we had a chance to chat in this very stressful time. Happy Holidays to everyone.
Thanks,
Kevin - "Oakleys4U"
PS If someone was to email me and ask a question about this jacket that I am selling. I would tell them exactly what type of jacket it is.
[ edited by kevap on Dec 20, 2000 01:56 AM ]
[ edited by kevap on Dec 20, 2000 01:58 AM ]
posted on December 20, 2000 01:59:28 AM
Note: I found this info earlier but the thread was locked when I came back, so I'm posting it now.
Msstone:
I don't know whether you use this same ID on Ebay, but a seller with the ID of Msstone just recently had some leather jackets up for auction on Ebay.
I was struck by the comments (quoted below) in one of that particular seller's auctions for leather jackets, (I did not pull up all the auctions for leather jackets).
If you are, in fact, this particular Ebay seller, I admit I have to wonder about your motives in wondering whether you should report this seller to Safe Harbor after reading those comments.
The comments contained in the auction listed by the Ebay seller shown as Msstone were "DON'T BE FOOLED BY PATCH LEATHER JACKETS WHICH ARE MADE FROM SCRAPS. THESE ARE MADE FROM FULL COW HIDES."
and
"I GOT A REALLY GOOD DEAL ON THESE JACKETS SO I CAN OFFER THEM TO YOU AT LESS THEN WHOLESALE. THE SUGGESTED RETAIL PRICE OF THESE JACKETS IS 199.99, the WHOLESALE PRICE IS $79.00 TO $89.00....."
[ edited by jada on Dec 20, 2000 02:05 AM ]
posted on December 20, 2000 02:32:51 AM
Hmm, that is interesting....
No, I would not complain to SafeHarbor. And would it be trite to say, "people in glass houses...?"
This subject is kind of interesting though. I was searching eBay for a "Beans" doll, the Ginger doll from Chicken Run. Toys-R-Us just sold out, and the last one at eBay got bought for BIN just minutes before I found it. Drat!
Anyway, while I was searching for the doll, I found a lot of these little plastic toys that come in the Burger King kids meals. What was interesting was that these cheap toys that they give away with the meals were being described by sellers as collectible items, and many had an opening bid of $11.99 or $12.99.
So tell me, what kind of sick, TWISTED, DEMENTED mind can describe a Burger King free toy as a "collector's item" with an asking price of $12.99 ("mint in bag," if you can believe it)? Surely this marks the downfall of Western civilization....
posted on December 20, 2000 04:41:59 AM
No, twinsoft, the indication of the imminent downfall of Western civilization was the formation of the "Franklin Mint"
I'm kinda baffled here. I do a search on "oakleys4u" and "kevap" and come up with NO auctions at all in the past 30 days. Does the seller in question list under another ID? I do find a number of $! leather jacket auctions listed currently, but all but one come up as "this # not in our database). Can somebody clue me in?
posted on December 20, 2000 05:27:00 AM
Hi HCQ! You have helped me many a times (thank you) To bring up the seller's auctions, put hyphens between the words.
posted on December 20, 2000 11:00:02 AM
My ebay user ID is - oakleys-4-u
If this was such a big deal to msstone. Why hasn't he/she replied to this post now? Makes me wonder if my comment before IS actually true. That he/she is just upset by the fact that my jackets are selling and his/her jackets are not.
[ edited by kevap on Dec 20, 2000 11:04 AM ]
posted on December 20, 2000 11:08:04 AM
Geez, don't we have enough Net Police? I wonder how many emails Safe Harbor gets in a day from "well meaning" eBayer's looking to make the online world safe for all.
posted on December 20, 2000 01:14:59 PM
Sorry I worked to 3am at our other business and I also have the flu so I am no moving as quickly as I would like to this morning.
I did not mean to pick on you personally. I did make a mistake by indicating your ads I am very sorry about that. There have been so many people selling these jackets.
(Other ads from different sellers for the same jacket
Men's or Women Leather Jacket with Patched Design/New
Giovanni Navarre Black GENUINE LEATHER JACKET @$1 N/r!
Makes a great gift for Any Occasion
Click picture to enlarge
SAVE $$$$ HERE
Description
NEW GIOVANNI NAVARREtm GENUINE LEATHER UNISEX JACKET. RETAIL IS A WHOPPING $89.95 FOR THIS JACKET. I AM STARTING THIS AUCTION @ ONLY $1.00 WITH NO RESERVE. THIS JACKET IS SIZE X-LARGE, WOMEN'S 18 - 20 OR MEN'S 46 - 48. THANKS FOR LOOKING AND HAPPY BIDDING! )
This jacket is all over the auctions. Some disclose the patches some disclose the retail
price all have the same model in photo.
Answer is Yes I have a few leather jackets left. I sold three fourth of what I had purchase as an experiment. I was offered a good deal so I tried them out. I was also offered the Giovanni jackets but when I saw the number of units that were for sale. I decided that these were not a manufacturers end runs but jackets that did not sell well in the stores. This is not my primary business. Nor do I want it to be.
I try to list quality and I try to be honest and act with integrity to the things I list.
So why wasn't the fact that these jackets are patched listed. It like saying an oak particle board piece of furniture is the same as a solid oak piece of furniture. A jacket made from left over scrapped leather is not the same as a jacket made from a full hide.
When a buyer has only a photo to go on everything needs to be disclosed. I guess if you start it at $1.00 it doesn't matter what the truth is.
posted on December 20, 2000 01:51:00 PM
Sorry, but I do not sell oakleys anymore. They are very hard to come by this time of year. I was selling romeos and juliets regularly. But do to overwhelming demand, my supply went quickly.
Msstone, as I said b4, if someone was to email me and ask about the jackets I would be honest with them. I am not trying to decive anyone. The only reason my auction does not state this is because I really just copied the description out of the book, and my book doesn't state that it is a patched jacket.
posted on December 20, 2000 02:39:27 PM
Is it or is it not a patch jacket? Are there lots of seams. So you copied it from a book don't you have the jackets in front of you?
posted on December 20, 2000 02:44:15 PM
I do have the jackets, but really there are not as many seams as you would think. I would actually wear this jacket anywhere. It really looks good, better then your jackets you had on ebay mmstone.
posted on December 20, 2000 03:29:16 PM
Msstone - Why do some sellers believe they must protect buyers from other sellers, especialy those who may sell similar items.
Ebay is supposedly an adult site. In spite of what some people think, I'm not a complete fool. Having lived a few years, I know how to ask questions, read descriptions, look for omitted information, etc. I don't need a babysitter - if I screw up, that's my responsibility.
Netcops do more harm than good, especially when an ulterior motive may be involved.
posted on December 20, 2000 03:33:32 PM
As I said before this was not personally. I do not intend to make it personal. As I said before I made a mistake when I posted this. For which I am sorry. Two or three weeks ago there were 4 or 5 different sellers of the same jackets. Some with straight forward presentations and some not.
I bought a few jackets from a United States Manufacturer. He had a few jackets left over after filling his orders. These happend to be very well made jackets straight from the manufacturer not taken out of retail store because they haven't sold. Whether I sell the 6 jackets I have left is not going to make or break me. This is not my normal field.
I would not have turned you into Safe Harbor.
That is not something I do. I posted this thread because of another thread. I was interested in feedback about this situation.
I see it being misrepresentational to the buyer. They should have all the facts so they can make an informed purchase. Alienating buyers hurts all the sellers. If they buy a jacket that they think is a genuine leather full hide jacket and get a patch jacket. I am sure they are disillusioned. Sure they got it cheap but it was described inaccurately. Your photo does not show the additional seams, your ad does not disclose that it is a patch jacket.
The manufacturers rep that I was in contact with told me, these jackets retailed for $89. Obviously did not sell well or there would not be the amount of these jackets everywhere on all the auctions.
posted on December 20, 2000 08:08:14 PM
In reply to msstones's comment:
posted on December 20, 2000 03:33:32 PM
I would not have turned you into Safe Harbor.
Answer this question.... if you would not of turned me into safe harbor for doing nothing wrong? WHY in the heck would you even make an issue out of this???
Obviously you DID have intentions of doing this or you would have never asked everyone's opinion on this subject.
Now, please can we please end this, and everyone go our own seperate ways.
