posted on December 26, 2000 11:07:53 PM
I just finished sending a game to Germany last week. The winning bidder emailed after the auction and said she was from Germany and how much extra should she add for shipping because of being from Germany. It turned out to be only $2 for first class airmail. I gave her the figure and had the money by Pay Pal within 2 hours. I would gladly deal with a customer like this from Germany or any other country.
Neil
PS: Your customer sounds like they have a big chip on their shoulders about something over which you probably have no control. You are just the target of their anger.
Rewind City http://www.rewindcity.com
posted on December 27, 2000 07:56:32 AM
The Internet is world wide. When you list something for sale on eBay it can be, and is, viewed right around the world.
eBay allows you to limit where you will ship to and as part of using their site we should agree to their rules. It is much less clear that eBay allows one to limit who you can sell to.
That said however, easydoesit states;
"I don't see not shipping outside the US as discrimination. I will sell to anyone or any race, creed, religion and handicap if they are in the US."
It is my very firm opinion that by not selling worldwide one is discriminating on the basis of domicile. And, IMHO, that is no different than discrimination on the basis of race, creed, religion or handicap.
Not everyone is blessed to live in the USA.
Just because eBay may allow this sort of discrimination does not mean that it is not highly offensive to hundreds of millions of people.
Bill
typo
[ edited by cdnbooks on Dec 27, 2000 07:57 AM ]
posted on December 27, 2000 12:59:32 PMJust because eBay may allow this sort of discrimination...
ebay and apparently everywhere else. I don't (and neither did my bitchy neighbor an international business attorney) know of any country that has a law that forces a merchant to ship goods outside the country.
I still don't think it is discrimination. To compare not shipping based on domicile to discrimination based on religion, race, creed on handicap trivializes the matter.
When was the last time someone was dragged out of their home and lynched just for living outside the US?
When was the last time a person was beaten to death just for living outside the United States?
When was the last time someone was put on a reservation just for living outside the United States?
When was the last time someone was put into forced labor camps, just for living outside the United States?
...does not mean that it is not highly offensive to hundreds of millions of people.
You would think with the power of hundreds of millions of people against this sort of discrimination, somewhere there would be a law or at least a nonprofit organization dedicated to preventing such descrimination from occuring
posted on December 27, 2000 07:36:41 PM
The problem is that there is no world wide body that could enact such laws. And discrimination of any kind is morally repugnant even if not legally prohibited.
posted on December 28, 2000 12:54:12 AMEasydoesit: Uh-you must not keep up on things or the news in your area is woefully lacking. Starting with WWII can bring up myriad instances of it being a bad idea to be living outside the US. Then there are the Yemeni kidnapping gangs, the rebels in Africa, Kashmir, the Phillipines, and your odd run-of-the-mill car bombings. Oh, and don't forget Edmund Pope. He may have been up on charges for spying but the bottom line was his trial was a political ploy.
This doesn't even begin to cover the daily little things, like local nationals taking out their irritation with our government on the Americans present. You ever been spat on because of your nationality? Called names or treated harshly just because you're an American? Been denied housing because you're a "dirty American"? Had your kids assaulted and harrassed because they were Americans(and it happened in base housing, no less)? BTDT.
To claim there is no discrimination based on domicile is, at best, naive. It exists. It is real. Americans living outside the US are targets for those who want to send a message to our government, pure and simple. It's a fact those of us who live outside the US deal with on a daily basis. In fact, in some areas of the world, you don't even have to live there for the target on your back to exist. All that matters is that you're an American and you're available.
Still, the bottom line at the moment is that you should be free to ship wherever you choose without some nimrod sabotaging your auctions.
posted on December 29, 2000 01:56:45 AM
Uh-you must not keep up on things or the news in your area is woefully lacking.
Starting with WWII can bring up myriad instances of it being a bad idea to be living outside the US.... Then there are the Yemeni kidnapping gangs, the rebels in Africa, Kashmir, the Phillipines, and your odd
run-of-the-mill car bombings. This doesn't even begin to cover the daily little things, like local nationals taking out their irritation with our government on the Americans present. You ever been spat on because of your nationality? Called names or treated harshly just because you're an American? Been denied housing because you're a "dirty American"? Had your kids assaulted and harrassed because they were Americans(and it happened in base housing, no less.
I probably read more news than anyone around. I even get newspapers from other countries. I world news fascinating.
It can suck to live outside the US.
However the examples that you give have absolutly nothing to do with being discriminated against because of living outside United States.
They are based on nationality (dirty American). Religion, Nationality or politics (car-bombings, rebels, kidnapping gangs.)
Yes, I have been spat at because of my nationality and called names. And yes I have come across quite a few folks that don't like Americans. However they dislike Americans no matter where the Americans live. Be it in Outer Mongolia or Southern Mississippi.
My ex did not go to Greece and have someone say "You live outside the United States. I don't want you in my store or I don't want to sell olive oil to you". What they said was "we don't want to do business with Americans."
All that matters is that
you're an American and you're available.
Exactly. No one is beat up, kidnapped, or carbombed for simply living outside the US. The discrimination is based on who or what they are. Living outside the US just gives the bigots an opportunity to act.
The problem is that there is no world wide body that could enact such laws. And discrimination of any kind is morally repugnant even if not legally prohibited.
There are worldwide bodies that can reccomend laws to govern warfare, trade, enviromental protection and a myriad of other things.
I can just see it now... Sears does not ship outside the US. Lets boycott them for this awful discrimination. Higdon Leathers does not ship outside Europe. Lets force them to make reparations for this brutal act. Hsieh LTD. does not ship outside China. Let's take them to the World court.
I don't see anyone jumping on the "I live outside the United States and no one will ship to me, so I am being discriminated against" bandwagon. And I suspect no one will. As I said it trivilizes true discrimination.
And discrimination of any
kind is morally repugnant even if not legally prohibited.
Yes it is. I simply don't think not shipping outside your country is dicrimination.
Edited because I can only get italics to work on part of the post. I give up.
[ edited by easydoesit on Dec 29, 2000 02:09 AM ]
posted on December 29, 2000 07:19:05 AM
Hi Haygrape;;;;;;;;
Just take the priority boxes and turn them inside out and you have a nice clean brown box. Maybe that would help.
I sell International and sometimes if it wasn't for International I would not sell that item, I feel why not make the most of the internet.
Also, before I give a shipping price, I tell the person that I will pack the item and take on my next trip to the Post office for shipping cost, them I contact them and all goes well.
Except for one deal in Japan, where the item cost 7.00 and shipping cost 22.50 the person never sent me the money, so I still have my item, but I had to neg him so other people would now to be carefull.
posted on December 29, 2000 09:35:15 AM"Just take the priority boxes and turn them inside out and you have a nice clean brown box. Maybe that would help."
Sorry, but not only will it not help, it will cause enormous problems. Turning Priority boxes inside out and using them in a manner other than intended is a violation of USPS regulations. This is true even if you are attempting to recycle a box which has previously been used for Priority. The newer Priority boxes are clearly marked "Priority" on the brown insides for this reason.
The USPS cracked down on this months ago. Your recipient will not thank you if s/he has to pay the difference in extra postage between what you charged and what Priority costs. Yes, the USPS is now doing that when senders misuse Priority boxes.
Those boxes are not really free. We pay for them when we pay Priority postage rates, and misuse of Priority supplies has been cited as one reason the rates have increased.
My 2¢.
(edited to fix UBooBoo)
[ edited by tabbinosity on Dec 29, 2000 09:39 AM ]
posted on December 29, 2000 01:29:41 PM"Why would it matter if the post office is still making the money for shipping and some."
Because it's a USPS regulation.
Because when you accept a delivery of USPS Priority mail supplies, you have agreed in advance that you will not use those supplies other than in the manner for which they are intended.
Because your customer will pay the difference in the postage.
Because if they decide you are improperly using those free Priority supplies, the USPS can decide not to issue you any more.
Personally, I prefer to recycle, and I would like to reuse Priority boxes that have already been used once, but I don't do it because the USPS says it's not okay to do that.
My guess is that they took that position because so many people were using brand-new Priority supplies for other types of mail, thus preventing the USPS from "still making the money for shipping and some."
And I imagine the posties have better things to do than to open Priority boxes that have been turned inside out so they can check to see if the boxes have been misused, or are being recycled after having been previously used for Priority mail.
Would you want your carefully packed merchandise to have to be opened to be checked for that reason? Think of the delays that could cause--don't people have enough complaints about the slowness of the USPS?
Bottom line, though, is that them's the USPS rules. We don't have to like them, but we do have to live with them. (Kinda like ebaY...)
posted on December 29, 2000 02:17:52 PM
tabbinosity
I give Up.......You made lots of good points...So people please don't take my advice and turn your priority boxes inside out.
posted on December 29, 2000 03:26:59 PM
I weigh in with easydoesit on this one.
My dictionary defines discrimination as:
a : the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually
Each individual was judged on their own merits. Does that individual live outside the US? Yes. Do not ship.
I know from personal experience that some items I sell I can't ship outside the US. I don't know what easydoes it usually ships but he may be under the same contraints. That isn't discrimination.
As someone who has been discrimiated against because of my race and religion. Not shipping to certain places does not come close to hateful, and prejudiced discrimination.
posted on December 29, 2000 03:47:32 PM
I discriminate every time I go the grocery store. I prefer to buy oranges rather than apples. Perhaps apples have more merit - I don't care. My choice.
I discriminate when I choose Bank A rather than Bank B for my banking needs. Perhaps Bank B has more merit - I don't care. My choice.
I discriminate when I choose to watch Program X instead of Program Y on television. Perhaps Program Y has more merit - I don't care. My choice.
We all discriminate - every day. Not all discrimination is morally wrong.
