posted on January 11, 2001 04:18:41 PM new
Hey perfectbarker, you seem to be missing the point entirely!
Please read the posts again if you feel that the sellers here aren't providing customer service, because you have misinformed yourself.
Customer service doesn't mean that you have to accept what ever type of payment is offered! It is standing by the terms and products that you offer and treating the customer as you would wish to be treated.
posted on January 11, 2001 04:24:37 PM new
Im still in the debate stage of negging that bidder. I am hesitant for some reason...my intuition has kicked in big time, and I dont know why. I think this person really has no clue, or is not all upstairs, both oars arent in the water, lights are on but nobody is home, if you get my drift. I have had deadbeats that ignored my emails, or responded hatefully. This person just is totally clueless, and I feel funny about negging them. So...gonna sit on it awhile. Im not afraid of retaliation because my fb speaks for itself. Just have this niggling in my head to not do it right now to that bidder.
posted on January 11, 2001 04:56:31 PM new
Thats what I was thinking, barrelracer. I usually go with my instincts/intuition...they kick in from time to time, so I try to pay 'tention when it starts hollerin' in my ear...so I think I will listen at this time
posted on January 11, 2001 05:24:38 PM new
I still get please send my DVD on auctions for videos,please send my CD on record auctions and of Course this one...I see you don't sell internationally but please sent my item to Germany for $3.50! And by the way I think your to high on your shipping!
posted on January 11, 2001 05:26:55 PM new
They also tend to not read the recommendations to GET INSURANCE on breakable items. They dont pay that extra 1.10 or so...lo and behold I get an email with "its broken. Any suggestions?". Yes. PURCHASE INSURANCE THE NEXT TIME LIKE I RECOMMENDED.
posted on January 11, 2001 08:25:34 PM new
As a seller I've never had any of the problems discussed in this topic. I've been selling for about two years on eBay.
I accept personal checks, money orders and Billpoint. I use Paypal only to pay sellers who have restrictive TOS and accept only money orders and Paypal. So I have an active Paypal account and every few months a buyer sends me payment that way. I don't get upset. I just let the funds sit there for the next time I purchase something using Paypal.
I've never held checks to wait until they clear. I get payment in, I make my deposits and I ship out twice a week. Not once have I had a check bounce. Not once.
This is just an idea, but perhaps sellers, who are having a problem with inept bidders not adhering to their TOS, might analyze their sales over the past three months and look at their inventory being sold. What I'm suggesting is that perhaps the problem is not with the TOS but with the type of items being auctioned. For example, if the seller is going to yard sales and thrift shops to pick up items and has an eclectic mix of inventory, look to see if there is a pattern, if certain merchandise might be attracting bad bidders. Maybe it is video tapes. Maybe it is childrens' clothing by a certain manufacturer. Maybe it is colored marbles. If there is a pattern, test the waters, stop selling that category of inventory for awhile, see if the bad buyer problem diminishes. If the problem abates, the seller has the solution to stop selling in that category and switch to more profitable items.
posted on January 11, 2001 08:37:20 PM new
Darcy, thanks for the ideas. However, I refuse to stop selling what I specialize in...ladies apparel, just because a bidder refuses to read my TOS. I have been selling on ebay also, for over 2 years. Only when paypal came into being did this problem happen. What I sell has nothing to do with my bidder refusing to pay with my payment methods. I dont hold checks either, and only had one bounce. And before I knew it would, the bidder emailed me and told me a replacement money order was on its way. That still has nothing to do with bidders who REFUSE to pay according to what I say on my auctions. I dont presume to make a seller I shop with conform to MY terms. I ask that they read my policies before bidding. I state it clearly. This isnt a normal thing with me...the problems I posted here. But it DOES happen. And it isnt on me or what I sell as to why it happens.
posted on January 11, 2001 08:52:18 PM new
Exec--Is there a way you can send their paypal payment back to them with a "PAYMENT REJECTED" in the subject line? Put a happy little note saying "Unfortunately, as stated in my auction, I do not accept paypal. I am so kindly requesting you remit the amount due via money order, or cashiers check. For your shopping convienence, I DO accept credit card payments through xxx, xxx, or xxx. I will ship your item when the appropriate form of payment is recieved. Thanks so much for your cooperation."
You could do the same thing with a check-place a kind little note requesting the correct form of payment.
Sometimes, ya just gotta kill 'em with kindness.
Good luck!
posted on January 11, 2001 09:57:19 PM new Darcy, thanks for the ideas. However, I refuse to stop selling what I specialize in...ladies apparel, just because a bidder refuses to read my TOS
Any possibility that there is a sub category of ladies clothing that might be attracting these type of bidders? Any common thread (pun) at all?
I agree with you that you wouldn't want to stop your speciality. But there must be a common factor among these bidders and if you can eliminate that factor your problem will be curtailed. Certain sizes? Tyes of fabric? Style?
If not that, perhaps there is something about your auction pages that is attracting the wrong type of people. Maybe experiment with restructuring your pages. Try one format for a few weeks, then another format for another few weeks.
I did that about a year ago and I found that I do really well with respect to what I sell by putting the photos first as thumbnails, then a real good description, followed by everything else in a smaller font. My sales were doing well anyway, but when I made the changes my sales soared and I got a lot of emails from my customers saying they really liked having the photos first.
Of course what I did works for me, not for everyone because it depends on what you sell. But even if you explored this idea, the work of changing the look of your pages might save you some future aggravation if one of the changes brings a different type of buyer.
posted on January 12, 2001 03:03:15 AM newjamnangel: I wish there was a way I could actually send their payment back to them but I can't send them money back to their account unless I have an account to do it with. When I get their "You've got cash!" email from Paypal I do reply to that (which goes to the bidder) and tell them I'm sorry, but I don't accept Paypal and to please use one of the methods listed in my auction.
Darcy: I sell men's & women's clothing also and like Maui, will not stop what I sell to stop these bidders from paying with Paypal & Checks. I've tried so many different auction formats I really have lost count. No matter how it's worded, how it looks, if there's icons or not - the bidders just look at the pictures of the item and bid. I swear - most of them don't even read the item's description!
posted on January 12, 2001 05:11:25 AM new
Although I agre, darcyw, that certain categories (e.g., CDs and computer games - anything that somebody under 18 might be interested in - seem to be notorious for attracting deadbeats) attract more trouble generally, there seems to be no "idiot-free" categories per se.
I do observe, however, that high-ticket items and those of interest to serious collectors tend not to attract as many functional illiterates, probably because there is more $ on the line or the collector actually pays attention to what s/he's bidding on.
But if you read these boards long enough, though, you'll find that even these items aren't - uh, foolproof.
Out of over 500 transactions in textiles/quilts, I've had less than a handful of problems of any sort. Yet today - after sending my EOA which cleary states "Sorry, I do NOT accept Paypal" - I get an email: "Do you accept Paypal?"
posted on January 12, 2001 05:25:03 AM new
I too agree that certain products bring more problems. ( For me it was selling a friend's hard rock albums from the 70's, I never had so many deadbeats! )
but by stopping selling a certain product you are just avoiding the problem.
The problem is bidders that can't read directions, not what you sell.
But the world is full of people that can't read directions.
Ever be in a grocery check out line for 10 items or less behind someone with a cartful?
Ever be stuck behind someone doing 20 miles less than the speed limit for miles in a construction zone?
Each of us sellers that try to make a living on ebay have our way of doing our business.
I frequently change or adapt because of idea and input I get from these boards.
But let's not blame the seller for what they sell, because the buyer can't read directions.
posted on January 12, 2001 06:07:06 AM new
May I please offer a few words on behalf and in defense of buyers? This thread seems to be fairly biased against us, and I think it's time to bring a little balance to what is being said.
We are not all idiots. We are not all functional illiterates. Most of us can read and follow instructions quite well. But, as with all of society, there are those among us who, for whatever reasons, can't, don't or won't comprehend things such as TOS. So while I appreciate your need to vent about your frustrating experiences with the latter group, please keep in mind that what you are experiencing is but a microcosm of what is going on everywhere, in all walks of life - at work, at home, at the grocery, in parking lots and movie theaters, and across the back fence with irritating neighbors. If we all allowed ourselves to dwell on each of these occurrences we wouldn't get anything done. Allowing things such as this to eat away at you is not good for you!
Please consider that buyers have frustrating and/or irritating moments, too. This is just part of life. I have had to contact at least half a dozen sellers who haven't listed TOS at all; their listings bear the canned "We take Paypal" logo and that's it. Does that mean no checks, no money orders? I always contact these sellers before placing a bid, and in each instance the seller has responded right away, saying yes, of course I take checks. Then, and only then, do I bid, for I prefer to pay only by check or money order. When a seller states in his or her TOS that he doesn't take checks, I don't bid. (By the way, I mail payment on the day the auction ends; I've never sent a bad check; and I have a 70+ positive feedback rating, a lot of which came from the purchase of $100+ items. Based on that FB, most sellers no longer hold my checks for 10 days, and I've not let any of them down, for I would never bid on something I couldn't pay for.)
So, please...consider the number of "good" bidders you've had, and weigh the percentage of bad bidders against it before making generalizations.
posted on January 12, 2001 06:14:56 AM newwisegirl: No one on these threads suggested that every bidder is like this. I have had far more great buyers (if I didn't I wouldn't be in this business). I am a buyer as well as a seller and I'm one of those who read every detail of an auction including the TOS before I decide to bid. I would just appreciate the same in return when my bidders go to my auctions.
Also, I'm curious about something you said. You said you prefer to pay by Check or Money Order. And if a seller states "No Checks" that you won't bid. Why is that, if you can still mail a money order like you said you'd prefer to pay with anyways? Are you trying to "punish" that seller for not taking checks? Also, you need to realize that although you may have never written a bad check, that sellers have the greatest risk in accepting checks. I personally have had 30+ bounced checks in the couple years I did accept them. One month I had 10 bounced checks and several had to be brought to collections and some never repaid. So you have to consider the great risk it is for sellers to accept checks. I think not bidding just for that reason is a little selfish on the bidder's part, but I'd still rather a bidder not bid than write me a check.
[ edited by ExecutiveGirl on Jan 12, 2001 06:16 AM ]
posted on January 12, 2001 06:35:45 AM new
execgirl-I mainly sell on ebay, but do buy from time to time, expecially around the holidays and birthdays. Like wisegirl, if the auction says money orders only I ususally will not bid. It has to be something I really want. It's nothing against the seller, just I guess call it laziness on my part. I hate to go buy a money order. There is no specific reason for it, it's just something I hate to do. When bidding there are several things I look for: feedback, price of item and shipping, and if the accept checks or paypal. I know several of you will not take paypal and that's ok I understand, but as a buyer it's a lot faster and easier to pay for that way. I think part of my problem with money orders is that I live in a small town and am always running and going with everything that I forget to go to the post office and get a money order and then get aggravated. I know it sounds like some lame excuse, but thats just the way it is for me. I have never given any thought to it being unfair to the seller, but will keep that in mind next time I am bidding on something.
posted on January 12, 2001 06:39:56 AM new
ExecutiveGirl:
I apologize; I should have said "And if a seller states 'No checks or money orders I won't bid'" rather than just "no checks." I can understand how, as I wrote it originally, my statement would be perplexing, not to mention irritating.
It isn't my intent, ever, to punish sellers (my sister is a 900+ seller who, by the way, only takes checks or money orders, and has received only one bad check). The point I obviously failed to make is that I would never try to force my terms on the stated terms of a seller by sending a check when it's clear the seller doesn't take them. That is: I read the TOS and I follow them. There is no punishment involved - believe me!
And, let's be fair: if a seller can have TOS, a buyer can have (self-imposed) TOP: terms of purchase. If the two aren't in agreement, I'm not punishing the seller if I don't bid just because the seller only takes Paypal or credit cards and I don't use Paypal or credit cards, nor is it selfish on my part.
One of my favorite restaurants is a hole-in-the-wall that doesn't take credit cards, so when I go there, I pay in cash. If I don't have the cash, I don't go, but my absence can't be construed as selfish or an act of punishment against the restaurant. (I realize that example is a bit of a stretch but it's all I can think of at the moment!)
I hope I've clarified my easily-misinterpreted remarks, ExecutiveGirl.
posted on January 12, 2001 06:52:13 AM new
Regarding checks,
Got one back from the bank yesterday for NSF.
Now the fact that I had to contact this winner 3 times and finally filed a NPB alert on her, then I get a check, and it bounces.
I have to think this is all related!
The check took 25 days to come back for NSF.
Will I stop taking checks? No, I have had a few NSF and all but one paid. To stop taking all checks I feel would hurt my sales, because there are many people that find it easier to mail checks than money orders.
This thread, as most threads, focuses on a select few. This thread happens to be about the bidders that don't read the TOS, or read it and do what they want anyway.
You can go to any thread on this board and find a complaint about a group of bidders or sellers.
posted on January 12, 2001 08:28:50 AM new
oh execgirl, this just isn't your week. But it's almost over. I really do feel for you and can understand your frustration.
Hang in there. I've seen a lot of things sold on ebay, so maybe someone wlll come along and write up something myabe titled "101 things you NEED to know to be a successful bidder on online auctions"
Then maybe, just maybe those bidders who dont read will undersand!
Ya think?
posted on January 12, 2001 08:29:49 AM newAnd, let's be fair: if a seller can have TOS, a buyer can have (self-imposed) TOP: terms of purchase. If the two aren't in agreement, I'm not punishing the seller if I don't bid just because the seller only takes Paypal or credit cards and I don't use Paypal or credit cards, nor is it selfish on my part. Im scratching my head here, wisegirl. Sellers dont go to a bidder and insist they bid on their items. Bidders go to sellers. If bidders dont like WHAT THEY READ concerning the TOS, they move on. The sellers dont even know they were there, since the bidder didnt bid due to the TOS. Frankly, I dont care what the bidder's TOS is. If they stop in MY sales, and then CHOOSE TO BID whether they read or not, then they AGREE to my TOS. Trying to change said TOS to suit themselves just aint gonna happen.
Executivegirl...I feel for ya, yep I do. Makes ya feel , doesnt it?
cajun...if if someone wrote the HOW TO, it wouldnt do any good, because they wouldnt READ IT, lol.
posted on January 12, 2001 08:31:58 AM new
EG....I would like to ask you something. You say you received a check today (and yes I realize that some bidders do not read) but.......
How often does this really happen?? I understand that you have many many transactions. If you get a check once in a while (do you get checks every day??) do you look at the bidders fb? the check number? Now, please, I know the subject of this thread and I have been frustrated also, but I have also been flexible without changing my TOS. Thanks EG.....good thread.
posted on January 12, 2001 08:40:03 AM newnanastuff: I sell a few hundred items every week. I get a check about once every few weeks. I get Paypal payments almost every day. When I get a check payment I look at nothing. It doesn't matter if they have hundreds of positive feedback - because I've had people with hundreds of feedback - NO negs - who bounced a check from me before. It took them over 2 months to repay me and that was only after endless hounding them for repayment. I ended up giving them their first neg and after mine was another neg for a bounced check. And it doesn't matter what their check number is - you can order your first set of checks and have them start at any number you want - a brand new checking account you can order checks and have your first checks start with 5000+ if you want. There's just no safe way to accept checks if you ask me.
At one time I even included a "form" for the bidder to fill out - and there were check boxes for them to check which payment they were sending). There was no place for Checks so they just didn't check anything and just mailed a check anyways. I just can't win.
posted on January 12, 2001 08:54:33 AM new
Okay I haveto add my two cents! First of all You people are great! I love the way you tell it like it is! Now for my most recent experiences.
1)I just had a buyer whom bid and won an auction. I state VERY Clearly in my auctions $4.00 Shipping and Handling. He won, I sent notice, he didn't pay, I sent 2nd notice, he didn't pay. Then about 2 days later he sends email: "When am I going to get my win? It has been 3 weeks!" I politely replied: "Your item has not been paid for? I will not ship till payment is received." He comes back with "OH!, I thought I paid it?" To begin with I am wondering, well daaaaaaaaaa why do you think I keep sending notices? So he pays with paypal "2" days later. I am actually surprised! So I ship item and didn't even mess with priority since it took him forever to pay, why should I rush it? Anyway, a week passes. I go in and catch up on feedbacks, including his and I give him a positive in spite of the fact that I have reservations about doing so! (dumb me) Low and Behold! the very next morning! I get email: "I am going to leave you a Neg. Can't beleive you charged me $4.00 for Postage. Shame on you!" Well Good Golly Miss Molly! First of all it does not say in my auctions $4.00 for postage! It says $4.00 Shipping and handling. Second what NERVE! After a $8.00 auction that took almost a month to get paid for! I once again politely wrote him back and said: "My Auction Terms were stated and if your conscience will let you do that over your own choices, thats fine." He hasn't yet but, doesn't mean he won't!
2) on the subject of checks-- I got a check for an auction for a little over $200.00 back in September, desposited it in Sept, guess what? On December 22 it was charged back to my account stamped refer to maker? 3 Months Later! When I called the bank they explained to me, when that stamp appears it ususally means that an account is way overdrawn and they have exhausted all means to get deposits but are not yet at the required date to close account.
posted on January 12, 2001 08:56:15 AM new
Yes you are right about the check #s....forgot about that. I do understand the Paypal thing. BUT.....one more question..re: the checks that bounced on you...was this before your TOS that says "no personal checks"? This is the point I am trying to make (and not doing a good job). You said you receive a personal check every few weeks. MOST ppl. really don't bounce checks. That person that sends you a check every few weeks is not going to spread the word through the ebay world that you now take checks. I have only been selling for about a year...and not NEAR the business that you do (only 254 positive feedbacks in a full year), but I always take a check and never had one bounce. (I do deal in high end antiques) Flexibility is important in any business. Thank you again, EG.
ESPECIALLY this business.
[ edited by nanastuff on Jan 12, 2001 09:00 AM ]
posted on January 12, 2001 08:56:59 AM new
execgirl, I got it! You list your auction with the picture of the item. Bidder wins and sends a check or paypal or whatever they're not supposed to do. So you mail out item, but it's not the item in the picture. When they email you back about being wrong item, you kindly reply, well payment method was not what I expected either, so when you mail me the right payment, I'll mail the right item!
I know it'd be a pain in the butt, ....but maybe???
And in all fairness, I don't think execgirl or anyone should have to change their terms just cause bidder has high feedback, can't read, or whatever it is they did that didn't comply with the TOS. Some may choose to over look certain things, but she doesn't and it's her right!
Maui, your right. And if they did win the auction they would either not pay and demand to know where the book is, or pay by check, and still be sitting there going "I just don't know what that sellers problem is????"
[ edited by cajunatpassmore on Jan 12, 2001 09:16 AM ]
posted on January 12, 2001 09:14:19 AM newNanastuff: Ok, I think I understand what you're asking... since my terms have been "NO CHECKS" I have not cashed/deposited ANY checks from customers. So the checks that DID bounce were from when I *did* accept them.
cajun: LOL! That's a great idea - wish I had the nerve to do that to these bidders that don't read but I think I'd be begging for NEGS if I did that!
posted on January 12, 2001 09:30:47 AM new
Hello All! Just had to add my 1 cent (not sure if it is worth 2!) I am a buyer and a seller, when I am the buyer I must admit that I sometimes reply to my winning bidder notification and ask if they accept Paypal, if it is not stated in the body of the WBN. The reason I do sometimes do this, is because there are times I have so many auctions that I am bidding on that I am not sure what the TOS was on that specific auction. Though I will send my money by paypal, check or money order, and I know that I read the TOS of all auctions, but mainley for the shipping/handling costs because I am not particular about my payment method. So to sum up the rambling, if I check my email and have many sitting there I will reply with my address and the question do you accept paypal (if the answer is no, that is fine with me, I send off a MO). I don't always do this, but with working two jobs and having two children, sometimes I am in a rush and I guess I figure that when they reply to my email with the shipping and handling cost, they can put a yes or no in there somewhere to my inquiry! Just wanted to let you know we aren't being "contrary" all of the time. Love these boards!
, doesnt it?
Love these boards!