posted on January 12, 2001 09:57:52 AM new
this thread is great....i have had soooo many problems with people not reading my policies that I made a big freakin blinkin sign that says ATTENTION-Pleas read below!
check out this auction for a peek at it...fell free to use it just don't link to my server please.
posted on January 12, 2001 10:05:59 AM new
I know I wasn't asked - but I would like to answer. I don't take Personal Checks and when I receive one I send it back. I email the buyer - let them know that I am sorry but my auction and winning bidder notification email clearly stated that I do not accept personal checks. I have only had one person get upset - but ended up sending me the money via MO.
posted on January 12, 2001 10:10:37 AM new
In answer to those who wonder why buyers simply send whatever form of payment they choose to, it's because it's convenient. The people who use PayPal do so because it's convenient, and possibly because there's not enough in the bank to cover it. Those who send personal checks contrary to the sellers wishes do so because they're too lazy to get a money order.
The notion that the buyer should determine the form of payment is absurd. The buyer certainly has rights to choose their method of payment, but it had better agree with what the seller has stipulated. How many of us would go into an out-of-state, or out-of-country business, purchase something and then DEMAND to pay by personal check? How often do retailers have customers DEMAND that they take American Express when they don't accept it as a form of payment? Sellers have rights as well.
I don't think the majority of buyers who ignore the preferred payment haven't read the TOS. I believe that they simply ignore whatever they choose based on convenience and the seller be damned. This is reflective of the garage sale mentality that is highly evident on eBay.
posted on January 12, 2001 10:14:21 AM new
Here are my TOS:
(for set shipping amount- generally small items)
Winning bidder to pay $X.xx shipping. International shipping extra as well as insurance, or delivery confirmation. Payments accepted are: CASHIERS CHECK, MONEY ORDER or by PayPal. SORRY NO PERSONAL CHECKS ACCEPTED.
(for actual shipping charges - generally large items)
Winning bidder to pay actual shipping charge. PLEASE RESPOND WITHIN 3 DAYS WITH YOUR SHIPPING ADDRESS. Payments accepted are: CASHIERS CHECK, MONEY ORDER or by PayPal. SORRY NO PERSONAL CHECKS ACCEPTED.
My Winning Bidder Notification goes like this:
Congratulations! You are the high bidder for my auction:
Little Widgets Blocks Item #000000000
Please send a CASHIERS CHECK or MONEY ORDER made payable to:
Lisa L.
123 Any Street
Any Town, MN 12345
In the amount of $13.50 PLUS $4.00 shipping - TOTAL $17.50
I also accept payments via PayPal. If you would like to pay via PayPal please use my email address:
posted on January 12, 2001 10:38:26 AM new
Not to sound overly cynical here, but it is true that SOME bidders can't [or simply don't bother to] read. HOWEVER, I think in many cases the bidder have read the TOS and fully understand them. They're just counting on the fact that most sellers would rather receive ANY sort of payment rather than nothing at all.
Thnink about it. Executivegirl, you have stated quite clearly that you do not accept checks. But when you actually GET a check, do you send it back to the bidder and give them a neg? Or do you scream in frustration and then cash the check anyway?
Bidders have sellers over a barrel. They know that we are not likely to actually REFUSE payment when sent, even if it's not in a form we prefer. It's the old "bird in the hand" theory. And, of course, the bidders are right. Although we don't want the hassle of having to wait for a check to clear or the risk of having one bounce, it's still better than not getting paid at all.
I generally accept checks, but I've run a few auctions for particularly expensive items where I stated "Money Order or Cashier's Check ONLY". In one auction, the high bidder e-mailed after the auction to tell me he was sending a personal check. I responded that I ONLY accepted money orders or cashier's checks per the auction terms. What I DIDN'T do, however, is tell the bidder that I would return his check and leave him a negative if he sent me a personal check. And, sure enough, he sent me a personal check. And what did I do? I wimped out and cashed the check, figuring that it was better than having to relist [losing the Featured Category Auction fee I had paid in the process]. There's no doubt that the bidder read my terms and understood them. He just didn't CARE.
I do draw the line at PayPal, though. The one time I had a bidder claim to have sent me money via PayPa, I told him in no uncertain terms that this was NOT valid payment and I would not ship until he had sent me a check or money order. He tried to weasel out by saying that my "No Credit Cards" statement in my terms didn't include PayPal, but I stuck to my guns. It took a few weeks, but I did finally get paid....
I don't think it really has much to do with bidder's not reading our terms. I think it comes right down to common courtesy. They READ our terms, but CHOOSE to ignore them in the hopes that they can blackmail us into accepting THEIR terms instead. Can you imagine these people walking into a restaurant that has a "no personal checks" sign at the counter, ordering $100 worth of food, and then insisting that they WILL pay by check? Not likely, and that's because the restaurant would call the cops on them. But they know they can get away with it with eBay sellers, so they do it.
It stinks, but the only way to get around it is to actually ENFORCE out terms. If we say "NO CHECKS" then we had better be prepared to lose the sale [not to mention repeat business] by returning the check and relisting the item.
*sigh*
Barry
---
The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
posted on January 12, 2001 11:19:43 AM new
WISEGIRL SAID: And, let's be fair: if a seller can have TOS, a buyer can have (self-imposed) TOP: terms of purchase. If the two aren't in agreement, I'm not punishing the seller if I don't bid just because the seller only takes Paypal or credit cards and I don't use Paypal or credit cards, nor is it selfish on my part.
MAUIMOODS THEN SAID: Im scratching my head here, wisegirl. Sellers dont go to a bidder and insist they bid on their items. Bidders go to sellers. If bidders dont like WHAT THEY READ concerning the TOS, they move on.
Mauimoods:
This is essentially what "Wisegirl" (who is, incidentally, my sister) was saying, so now it's your post that's left *me* scratching my head. She'd written the above statement in response to another post in which she was asked if she were "punishing" a seller by not buying if the seller didn't take checks. I think she was rather clear in her response. Don't take my word for it--go back and read her post in the proper context.
I assure you that my sister is not the sort of buyer who tries to change a seller's TOS and has never sent one of the aforementioned e-mails asking a redundant question about TOS or criticizing a seller's TOS. All she was trying to say was that we should refrain from generalizing, as all buyers are not guilty of this sort of misstep. Surely we can all agree on that point. Even if we can't, I'd suggest that my sister is, in fact, just the sort of buyer most of us hope to encounter on ebay (prompt, friendly, honest, cooperative and, of course, a good reader), and merits more courtesy than this. Unless, of course, we *want* to alienate the good buyers with the bad.
I do understand your anger at receiving numerous bad checks. As a seller I've been fortunate in that in 1,000+ auctions over two years, I've received only one bad check, but all I need to do is multiply my anger at receiving the one to get a sense of your frustration. Out of deference to buyers like my sister, however, I must state that the vast majority of my buyers are excellent ebayers, DO read and follow to a "T" my terms of sale.
I've also had only one buyer violate my TOS, in spite of clear language in my auctions, and it's a doozie. A bidder once paid me by Paypal, even though my TOS state that I take checks and money orders only. I had an old Paypal account that I hadn't gotten around to canceling (after a bad experience with PP), so her payment went through. I was very pleasant---thought, "well, this is my problem for not canceling the account on time". I accepted her payment, left her positive feedback, e-mailed her to tell her that I'd mail the item the next day and had left feedback...and then made the mistake of asking her calmly and without sarcasm how she'd come to pay me via Paypal, which I had not stated that I accepted. She immediately launched into a diatibe against me during which she accused me of having trust issues, told me in so many words that I was a bad person, made cruel remarks regarding her assumptions about my personal finances and insisted that she no longer wanted the item---if I mailed it to her, in fact, she'd mail it back. When I responded, asking her if she'd like me to send her money back, she screamed at me (all caps) to leave her alone. She'd mentioned at one point that she was taking a drug that I knew to cause occasional paranoia, so I feared she'd fly off the handle and leave me negative feedback. Therefore I was amused when, the next day, she left me the some of the most glowing positive feedback I'd ever received, calling me both "friendly" and punctual in shipping.
posted on January 12, 2001 11:26:52 AM newBarry: You are absolutely right. We must enforce our terms or get walked on by these bidders. Like I had said previously, since my "NO CHECKS" policy has gone into effect (over a year now) all of the checks I've received I have NEVER cashed. I immediately emailed the buyer, told them that I recieved their check, but I'm sorry I cannot accept it. I also ask them to please proceed to pay for this item with one of my accepted methods of payment and I will return this voided check back to them with their item. I don't care what their reason is. I've had DOCTORS send me checks before and I really don't care WHO they are - I told the doctors the same thing! I treat all my customers the same way - I'm not going to accept a check just because someone is a doctor or whatever they are. I have, in the past, immediately mailed back the checks to the customers telling them I don't accept checks - but then I thought, why should I lose out the cost of a stamp (if not the entire sale) for their ignorance? When they bid on my auctions, they are playing by MY RULES.
posted on January 12, 2001 11:40:34 AM new
Neelie (btw...cool name), I was scratching my head because this threads topic was about bidders who dont read. Your sister did make a point, to which I took into consideration, but my term of "scratching my head" was just that...a term I use often here. You also said I do understand your anger at receiving numerous bad checks. I dont know to whom you were refering "you", but I accept checks. Its execgirl who doesnt and gets them all the time. So, to borrow your phrase, I think she was rather clear in her response. Don't take my word for it--go back and read her post in the proper context. This pertains to what I have been discussing also...the topic of bidders not reading.
posted on January 12, 2001 12:18:51 PM new
Forgive me for not using bold or italics here---I don't often post to Auctionwatch and am without clue.
***
MAUIMOODS WROTE:
Neelie (btw...cool name)
Thank you! We do love "Valley of the Dolls".
***
MAUIMOODS WROTE:
You also said I do understand your anger at receiving numerous bad checks. I dont know to whom you were refering "you", but I accept checks. Its execgirl who doesnt and gets them all the time.
My bad. I am aware of the fact that it is execgirl who does not take checks. When I wrote "bad checks", though, I was referring to checks that bounce---something several posters have mentioned (although not you---see, I am reading!). However, I should have specified at that point that I meant "you" in general and not you specifically, so I apologize for the misunderstanding. Oops.
posted on January 12, 2001 01:06:16 PM new
I'm going to admit that I sent a seller a check for an auction when the auction said MO orders only. (See, I read it, I just forgot it!)
But, in my defense, my excuses are as follows:
1. No mention of payment methods in EOA, just "send payment of xxx to xxx". It was only mentioned in the auction and I tend to forget details.
2. I was writing checks for a couple of other auctions at the same time and wrote one out for that one as well without a second thought.
But I realized the error a couple days later and emailed the seller about it, offering to send a MO. She said no problem and wasn't nasty about it at all.
To bold, do a bracket like this [ then put B between the two brackets like this []. To end the bold, do [/] with the "b" after the /.
Same with italics except its an "i" between the two brackets with the slash to end the italics. Theres a smiley face thread around here somewhere. Hope to see you more often Neelie
posted on January 12, 2001 02:05:33 PM new
Maui & Neelie -
I know this is off the subject...but,
I don't know where the thread is on the smiley faces, but when it came out I printed them out for future use....just never have done it...if you want I can type them in for you....
posted on January 12, 2001 05:03:55 PM new Idea For ExecutiveGirl
Sellers structure their own auctions to fit their own needs. I understand that. So though I personally accept checks and am always flexible for my customers, I understand that other sellers have different requirements.
This is my idea. Get rid of the Bidpays and all of that. Simplify your TOS, accept only money orders and Billpoint. Buyers can pay by electronic check through Billpoint, thus alleviating the problem of having bounced checks. You are giving your customers the flexibility of paying with a money order, credit card or electronic check.
If you don't get buyers who win multiple auctions on a regular basis, set up each auction with the instant purchase. State that you will ship within 2-3 business days of receipt of payment into your bank account.
When buyers try to send you money via Paypal, send them a nice email back, say you don't use Paypal but you are generating a Billpoint invoice for them, that all the buyer has to do is click into the email and the instructions will be there for the buyer to sign on and pay for the auction.
My statistics are that 75-80% of the deposits into my business account are now electronic transfers from Billpoint. The more sellers that use Billpoint, the more comfortable buyers will be with using it.
I hope this idea is worth your consideration.
Money Orders
Someone posted that buyers who don't get money orders are lazy. That is not the reason.
1. A lot of buyers on eBay live rurally. They are nowhere near a bank or post office. Asking them to travel into town to obtain a money order adds considerably to the cost of purchasing the item in terms of time and money.
2. Some buyers are disabled, can't get to a bank or post office because they are dependent upon others to drive them. These buyers buy on eBay because it gives them the freedom to have merchandise delivered right to their door; they don't want to have to ask others in their household to drive them somewhere and feel like a burden to their family or friends.
3. Some buyers are dealers, shop owners or busy professionals. Asking for a money order takes their time, adding to the cost of the item. Say the buyer is a shop owner, that if they win an item for $20 plus $5 shipping and they think they can sell the item in their shop for $50, the difference between sending a check or paying electronically or being required to send a money order only means the difference between bidding or not bidding. If it takes the shop owner a half hour of their time to get a money order and if the shop owner values their time at $25 an hour or more, that adds another $12.50 to the cost for a total cost of $37.50. The shop owner won't bid and will move on to another auction.
posted on January 12, 2001 05:41:40 PM new
yes Shosh did beat me to it....he alway's knows were to find the stuff.....
and by the way Maui-
I wore a skirt a few days ago that I got from you, had many compliments on it and I told them were to go look! Hope they come see you!
Shosh- thanks for the post, saved my fingers some work!
posted on January 12, 2001 06:17:07 PM new
One possible suggestion -- I don't know if it would make a difference or not... You could try including the URL to the auction in your EOA, so they would have it handy to just click on and see the auction terms they'd agreed to. I look at a lot of auctions and sometimes bid on several running at the same time. Often when I win I can't remember what the terms were for that specific auction, and I'm tempted to query whether the seller accepts **** payment? (I have done that a few times when I wasn't able to open up the auction at the same time I was replying to the EOA.) Some of the bidders described here do sound like they are "challenged." Others may just not be able to recall the auction terms. Just an idea.
Violetta
(Not known by this nickname anywhere but here.)
posted on January 13, 2001 07:14:50 AM newDarcy: Thank you for your suggestions. But I like to give my customers as many options to pay as I can. Some of them prefer PayDirect, or Bidpay, or Ecount, etc. The only 2 payments I really do not accept are Paypal and checks. I don't think limiting them to only 1 online option is the answer. A lot of people are familiar with only one service and don't really want to sign up with others. I already do put the Billpoint Instant Purchase in all of my auctions and now about 85% of my customers pay that way and it's working out great. For me it has quickly taken the place of Paypal.
posted on January 13, 2001 08:56:20 AM new
Execgirl, can you tell me about billpoint? I have joined it, and dont know if I want to, but I did try looking it over and it said nothing about fees I would have to pay. I heard its high. I guess in order to know, I would have to sign up, which I dont want to do unless I know what Im signing up for. I used to have paypal before they did their "no more free" thing. Now, Im just checks and m.o. Im considering billpoint...but want an opinion from another poster of what it IS and how it works. Wanna give me the low down in laymans terms?
posted on January 13, 2001 09:22:02 AM new
I dunno...I see a thread titled "Bidders just don't read" with no qualifiers like "some" or "most", yet I'm supposed to automatically assume you don't mean ALL bidders?
If you don't mean ALL bidders, then say so in the title of the thread. Don't paint the bidders who do follow the TOS with the same brush as those who don't.
posted on January 13, 2001 10:16:19 AM new
I think ExecutiveGirl had a slip of the tongue and meant SOME bidders. I happen to have, as many do I'm sure, excellent reading comprehension. In the same vein, there are SOME bad sellers.
posted on January 13, 2001 02:47:11 PM new
For the record, I certainly did not mean that ALL bidders did not read. As a matter of fact, I think I did state somewhere earlier in this thread that most of my buyers are wonderful.
marc923:
EG, what do you mean, "because of their underhanded, scheming and lying ways" when referring to PayPal?
For starters, Paypal promised "always free!". They are no longer free.
They promise you are guaranteed against scammers if you buy from a verified seller. Not true. I was scammed from a Paypal seller and it took about 12 emails to Paypal before they responded basically telling me there was nothing they could do.
I've read more horror stories about Paypal than anything. They change their policies on what seems a daily basis just to suit their needs for that given moment.
They freeze your accounts for just about any reason. Even if one of your CUSTOMERS received a CC payment from someone using a stolen CC.
The complaints are endless. No thanks, I want no part of them!
posted on January 15, 2001 05:40:28 AM newmauimoodsTo bold, do a bracket like this [ then put B between the two brackets like this []. To end the bold, do [/] with the "b" after the /.
Thank you!!!
Hope to see you more often Neelie
Thanks---although not so much on weekends---my computer is at work!
posted on January 15, 2001 07:27:41 AM new
It's true many bidders don't read, but neither can my bank account: it doesn't care as long as the money is good.
You might want to state that if they don't send the correct form of payment by your deadline, that the auction is void. And then restate what correct payment is. I wouldn't want to wait up to 28 days for a payment.
