posted on January 12, 2001 11:35:15 PM
I myself never charge a handling fee, just the cost of postage! When I buy on ebay now, I refuse to pay a huge handling fee, when I know they are sending it priority mail, and the boxes are free! This is just my 2 cents!
posted on January 13, 2001 12:55:00 AM
Handling charges are theft. Bookkeeping bugaboo. Extra profits for sellers that they can deduct as expenses. It's only taking from the sale price and putting it into the cost line. Steealing from the tax collector.
Buyers, what do you care? You'll either pay it in handling fees or you'll pay it in higher bid prices. It's none of your business.
posted on January 13, 2001 03:36:37 AM
This is from aprevious thread but says it all.
I charge a standard 'approx.' US$10 above actual postage cost on all my items, but I don't actually spell it out as I'm about to, I just tell'em that 'some' of the money goes toward handling. Is that being deceitful?
I say aprox. because I often over charge a little because I go up the next weight bracket in my calculation if I think it's marginal.
I can estimate the postage before I pack because I use several sizes of standard boxes.
That money is partly for packing materials and, just in case you think it's fee avoidance let me tell you I pay my grandma to pack the boxes {.{I don't pocket the money}.} But I make her work very hard for your packing dollar.
She has used as much as US$1.00+ on packing tape alone (1 porcelain tea set)
Rigid foam boxes cost US$1.80 - US$3.00 each. Bubble wrap US$0.50 - $1.00
Thin particle/ mdf/ chip board cladding on foam box US$0.60
Phone call to customs sometimes avg./item US$0.03 - $0.04
Fax to customs nearly every time US$0.11
All wrapped up in thick brown paper because my customers are important to me and I like to demonstrate it to them. US$0.15.
No charge for genuine epson ink to print out label with name, no charge for 'fragile' stickers. No mention of pens, disposable blades for cutting, petrol to post office or phone call for credit card authorisation etc.
MUST I spell it all out. Is that being deceitful?
That means that my poor old grandma gets to work for under US$4.00 per hour for her packing because I charge her a little rental for the corner she uses in our laundry to do her thing in. But don't worry I'm not too soft on her just because we're related, I make her throw in delivery to the post office in her own time in my car. She gets to drop off 2 at a time, it's easy on her and besides she says she doesn't mind because she loves me…It's not like I'm ripping her off..
I don't tell the customers that my Granny is getting some of the money. Is that being deceitful? You see I think some of them get upset when they know the post office isn't getting to keep all the money.
It's not a wonder the small business person is being driven out by larger companies. Some people and it seems most, will stand in cue at the large department store, bank, large post office, and grin and bear it but when you try and let your grandma earn a whopping US4.00 per hour !#$%^&*.
If you feel your that right kind of person, can arrange all of that in any quicker time than my grandma & are prepared to work for just a little less, let me know.
posted on January 13, 2001 03:47:59 AM
I have been so snowed under by work lately that I have asked my grandma, at no extra charge, to fill in the 2 page customs export clearance application and fax it to customs.
I charge her next to nothing for rent, and she doesn't even appreciate the ALMOST US$4.00 per hour I'm paying her. It's not quite $4.00 because I charge her a nominal amount for electricity she uses in the laundry. I should make her use a 25W light but she reckons it's too dark in there, personally I find it romantic working by the ample moonlight which comes in through the large window.
Can you believe the ungrateful old b%^&# is complaining that an extra 10 minutes of her life is being waisted. For all the money I pay her you'd think she could throw in a little effort to fill in a customs form.
posted on January 13, 2001 03:50:29 AM
Handling Fee: The cost difference between handing it to you at the cash register and preparing and shipping it to your door.
Handling fees are the same as the labor a repair shop charges. A muffler doesn't install itself. It takes time and labor. A box will not pack itself. This too, takes time and labor. The package has to be "handled" to get the item inside and the address to appear on the outside. This requires a "handler", and they generally require compensation.
posted on January 13, 2001 04:56:50 AM
Frankly I'm in total shock. A handling fee thread that makes some sense and provides information. No yelling and no emotions.
Never thought I'd see it!!!!!
'Handling' fees can have several components, IMHO:
1. the cost of the packaging materials
2. out of pocket costs relating to optaining the packaging materials and gas to get to the PO
3. payment to cover the 'handlers' time
4. a straight additional charge to increase profit.
Personally I charge for number 1 above. Numbers 2 and 3 have to come from the bids I get.
Others do it differently.
I quote a single fee in all my auctions which is my reasonable estimate of the cost of postage and the cost of my packaging materials. My customers seem to appreciate knowing up front what the total cost will be.
Sometimes I'm a little high, sometimes I'm a little low. I might have even been exactly right once. It is a simple system; simple to explain, simple to understand, simple to administrate.
posted on January 13, 2001 08:13:38 AM
I can see it for some of the bulk sellers as long as they are not ripping people off and the charge is reasonable.
For me though if I sell something on eBay I paid a buck or two for and sell it for a hundred or so I will cover it without hesitation.I think "some" people get greedy and take advantage of this charge.I think hurts those bulk type sellers who have to in turn pay their Grandmothers less than minimum wage.
--------------------------------- If I had money I'd be rich!
--------------------------------- My Bit
I really don't think you can compare installing automotive parts in a vehicle to packing a few items with bubble wrap in a box?Seems to me a rather bizzare comparison.
--------------------------------- If I had money I'd be rich!
--------------------------------- My Bit
posted on January 13, 2001 08:40:29 AM
I have mixed feelings when I see the words "handling fee". I too have paid them only to receive my item sent in a cheap & shabby way and have wondered what the balance of that fee went for. Now I know! BEER! LOL...I shoulda known! I really have nothing against a handling fee as I know what a pain it can be finding the right box sometimes, etc. But I try & build that into my starting bid when I list. Sometimes it works ok & sometimes I bite the bullet! Christmas season was great for me this year on Ebay so I guess I can't complain. I have dropped Yahoo completely and I doubt if I would ever waste my time going back & trying them again, no matter what they do to change it. The bottom line here is...WHATEVER WORKS FOR YOU, DO IT! Good Luck, all.
Call Walmart.com & ask exactly what's included in their shipping charges. Come back here & let us know what they say. Below are the actual Walmart.com shipping options to send the DVD "Gladiator" to Atlanta, Georgia (copied and pasted from an order page):
Ground $3.57
Priority $8.57
Express $13.57
Here's how the Walmart.com charge breaks down for a DVD:
*Fixed Cost(1 per order) $3.00
*Per-item Cost $0.57
(add to Fixed Cost for each item in category)
*Surcharge for Priority Shipping $5.00
(add to Ground shipping rate; 1 per order)
*Surcharge for Express Shipping $10.00
(add to Ground shipping rate; 1 per order
posted on January 13, 2001 12:25:27 PM
Maybe I should have re-worded my question to read....."as a Buyer, if you paid an extra "Handling" fee, would you expect more than from someone who didn't charge a fee?, and if you saw the word "Handling" in the description, and wanted to ask what that covers, would it be appropriate.
As a Seller myself, I certainly understand the added costs to each package, but as a Buyer, I don't get reimbursed for my time, money order costs, envelopes, etc. Because the term "Handling" is a grey area, I just want to know what I'm paying for.
Making a list of every detail you have to go through isn't what I'm after. But if I paid (for example) an extra $5.00 for "Handling", in my mind, I'm thinking "wow, they must pack well", or "they must use lots of bubblepacking", etc.
At least you're all willing to discuss it here, but the few Sellers that I've asked in my own experiences, got really mad and defensive, which is why I asked you guys.
I guess I do expect something extra when I pay extra, ie: good boxes, peanuts, etc., but that's my problem.
It's more of an "after the fact" deal I'm getting at. I've paid my $5.00 extra, and when the item arrives, at times I've been left thinking "what did the extra $5.00 go for?". And if I've asked the Seller, they've always gotten mad (????)
posted on January 13, 2001 12:55:12 PM
I guess no one ever joined a music club such as Columbia House. 12 CD's for $0.01, you only pay s/h. Small box comes to the house, postage is under $5.00 and your bill is $32.00 for your $0.01 CD's. I guess I should write them and find out where my $27.00 went.
posted on January 13, 2001 02:25:44 PMI really don't think you can compare installing automotive parts in a vehicle to packing a few items with bubble wrap in a box?Seems to me a rather bizzare comparison.
posted on January 13, 2001 03:44:36 PM
This is the first "handling fees" thread I've seen that didn't start foaming at the mouth about fee "gouging." I liked your comment about the CD club, Don. That is really true. How come it costs $25 to ship a litte box containing a few CDs? They must "handle" those discs an awful lot!
posted on January 13, 2001 03:51:06 PM
I just lump it all under "shipping". I weigh the item before listing, try to figure the postage, tack on enough to cover delivery confirmation, and hope that between the winning bid and these charges, I get enough to come out with a profit. My buyers don't care what it costs for gas to the post office, or the time I spend in line, or the costs of materials, etc. They only care about what they have to pay, I sell books, mostly collectibles, and they expect, I am sure, to be able to buy something on line at a price lower that what they might pay at the local antiquarian book or comic book store. Approximate values can be determined by referring to a price guide. I try to use recycled shipping materials whenever I can, and things so far have worked out. But....I am not going to have a 2 page terms and conditions statement and try to itemize and/or justify every cent of the shipping charge.
As sellers, I think we need to make our profit from the bid price, not from s&h fees.
My 2 cents, and it probably makes about that much sense.
Nick the damdue (Hoover Dam, control center operator)
posted on January 14, 2001 03:05:11 AM
As a buyer, I don't mind sellers tacking on a modest amount to cover the cost of packing materials and perhaps a bit extra. But "Handling"??? WTF is that? Especially when it is included in the rather bland "Buyers pay actual S&H" or suchlike. How are we supposed to know how much we are going to be charged?
If bidders are to (reasonably) bear the cost of getting to the post office, the time taken to find our treasures, etc, it should be reflected in the BID price - not as "handling".
As a bidder, I want to have a pretty clear idea of what I will be paying, and to have a large surcharge after the heat of bidding is pretty unattractive. I always read the TOS about shipping now, and just pass by those that are out of line.
posted on January 14, 2001 05:53:33 AM
I was figuring it by rounding up a little bit on the postage to the next easy-to-add number. So all those book-rate boxes that came in just under 2 lbs I charged $2, giving me a bit less than 50 cents in "handling".
But since the rate increase I have been treading carefully and haven't raised my shipping charges yet,so my margin of "handling" has really shrunk.
On the other hand,I am no longer paying $7 for photos once or more a week, so I have fewer actual expenses, and I am learning better how to track and deduct my expenses for taxes. I didn't track any mileage all last year, for example.
posted on January 14, 2001 02:17:43 PM
Regarding paying taxes on handling fees, or postage charges, or any other income...
If one is filing a Schedule C (Business Tax Return), ALL income is reported as income. That includes the total amount of the payment received - bid amount PLUS any extra added fees.
The actual cost of the item, the actual postage, and the expense for boxes, peanuts, tape, labels, wear and tear on your vehicle, etc. etc. are deducted from the income to arrived at a taxable net profit (or loss.)
Theoretically, if a seller collects 50 cents for the box and tape and packaging - and if this seller also spends 50 cents on the box and tape and packaging - this will result in a net profit of $0, which is obviously not a taxable sum.
So in a nutshell, YES, handling fees are reported as income just as are the monies received for the sale of the item.
posted on January 14, 2001 09:59:27 PM
Okay call me dumb but I TOTALLY don't understand why everyone goes crazy about the idea of figuring S&H cost into your minimum bid. Please explain cos I really don't know! Iam trying to learn all this. It has to come out of somewhere, right? I personally believe in charging shipping and handling and I state that clearly "S & H" so people know right away. But I'm just wondering what is the difference if someone just starts their minimum bid a little higher. ?? Also, to me, doesn't "handling" include the amount of your time spent? I think someone else mentioned this...the post office time!! I don't know about you guys, but the lines in my post office take up MOST of my time in my auctions. MUCH longer than my packing and WBNs and anything else. (Why doesn't the PO hire more people? But.... that is another thread, no doubt.)
Anyway, please' splain, Lucy.
posted on January 14, 2001 10:17:15 PM
nycrocker - OK, let's see...If I start my minimum bid at $0.01 (like some sellers on ebay) because I feel that it attracts bidders, adding the handling charges to the opening bid is out of the question. Also, very often the opening bid has NO EFFECT on the final selling price. So, if I run auctions of the same product at starting bids of, say, $6.99 vs. $7.99, the final selling price might very well end up being $8.99 in both cases. Those of us that prefer to treat the auctions like a marketplace for our products by using large quantity dutch auctions are simply giving away money if we add the "handling fees" to the bid price. In cases where an item is listed for $4.99 + $3.00 s/h and $6.99 + $1.00 s/h the $4.99 + $3.00 situation results in both more bids and increased profits per sale (less spent in FVF's) for the seller. For those that are interested, please, let's not run around the "fee avoidance" issue. This is a red hearing arguement and has nothing to do with the transaction between the buyer and the seller. That ebay feels "cheated" out of FVF's is of no concern to the buy-sell transaction. Just my two cents worth...
posted on January 14, 2001 10:44:16 PM
Ok that's it... Grandma is getting a pay cut! Geez... to find out I have been paying my Grandma over the what the average Grandma makes for packing eBay goods, really makes me upset!
Tomorrow Grandma's packing wages go down and I am taking out those 100 watt bulbs and putting in 25 watt bulbs. She also will no longer get 30 minutes for lunch anymore and no more outside smoke breaks for her. (it just takes her to long to get outside and then back to work since she uses a walker now to get around!)
posted on January 15, 2001 10:45:46 AM
I agree with you Kraftdinner. I have purchased items before and paid postage of 5 to 8 dollars thinking the item would be shipped priority mail. The package arrives with $2 postage charges and that upsets me. I always ask now if shipping info. is not listed in the auction description and stay away from the handling charges that go over $1.
I sell on ebay and would never consider asking a buyer to pay anything over $1 as a handling charge. I also would add that I always try to list the actual postage charges in my auction listings so that a buyer knows up front he or she will not be paying a super large handling fee.
posted on January 15, 2001 11:27:38 AM
Re: the problem with "just increase your opening bid to cover your additional expenses.."
Here's the problem. Either you run your auctions like auctions, with a low opening bid while letting the marketplace fix the final price, or you run a fix-priced model, where you expect your opening bid to be the only bid in most cases-- and a price you're willing to sell the widget for that will cover your expenses (including the expense of listing the items that do not sell, and payment processing expenses, and all that) and give you a reasonable profit. Either model is fine- up to the seller.
But you can't get something for nothing. With either model, getting additional revenue out of the auction isn't as simple as just "increasing the opening bid."
With the auction model- where you start items at $1 or some low price many times below what the item will finally sell for (I'm currently running about 80 $1 no reserve auctions- some will close over $100), increasing the opening bid by $1 (or whatever) to cover "handling," or payment processing expense increases, or postal increases, will not increase the final sales price at all. In fact, it may have the opposite effect- by increasing the opening bid, you may lose a small number of bidders that are less interested because the opening bid isn't as interesting and exciting.
If you use the retail model (which eBay sellers are increasingly turning to), you've presumable priced your items at an optimal level to ensure that a reasonable % of items will receive at least one bid, and that your sales will cover the expense of listing the items that do not sell. If so, increasing the starting bid price of each item by $1 (or whatever) will decrease the % of items that sell, on average, and thereby increase your costs. (Either that or your items weren't priced optimally in the first place).
posted on January 15, 2001 11:40:20 AM
Inflated S/H charges are commonplace and expected.
I have been buying mail order for 40 years and all those years I have been paying inflated S/H charges. Now that I'm on the receiving end I ain't gonna change things.
Our canned response to the very rare question about it:
The term "S/H" refers to Shipping and Handling. This is a non-refundable service charge for packing and delivering your goods. The amount of this charge is our price for this service and includes postage and other costs.
I charge a flat rate. Occainsonly my acutal cost are higher, but not very often. Generally it represents a few dollars extra profit.
posted on January 15, 2001 12:09:46 PM
"HANDLING FEES" are totally unacceptable and should be outlawed!
Handling merchandise is stictly a "cost of doing business". When you offered an item for sale you knew you would have to box it, tape it, pack it and bring it to the post office or another shipper.
If you MUST recoup some of those small costs instead of taking them from your profits, then simply add something reasonable to your "shipping" fee and consider it one charge.
Many online and mail order retailers learned long ago that the term "handling fee" upsets customers and drives them away. That is why you now just see "Shipping" or "Shipping & Handling" as one charge in most cases and you KNOW what they are charging is more than it cost them to ship that package.
Does the supermarket charge you a "handling/packing fee" for giving you bags? Of course not... it's part of what you paid for the items.
The fastest way to annoy a customer is to tack on an extra handling fee when you could have built it in somewhere else. Heck, if you use Priority Mail they will give you free boxes, labels and tape!
I'm not saying eat these costs, I'm saying listing them as a seperate charge is asking for trouble! It's plain silly!
posted on January 15, 2001 12:44:33 PM
You would think this is the 1920s and buyers aren't used to handling fees!! Eighty years after the start of mail order and buyers still don't understand handling fees. That package isn't making it to the USPS until someone packs it up and delivers it there. Shipping is an added service thus the s/h is added, not included in the bid total.
As a buyer also, I've paid hundreds of dollars in handling fees, so this isn't a bias for sellers. It's a long term idealogy. I know if sellers are making a profit, even if it's just on the handling fee, they will continue selling and my choices will be greater and prices I pay will be smaller. If I didn't allow a seller to make a profit, they'd be wiped out, I'd have to buy only from a couple sellers who could charge any price they want, thus I'd pay more.
Of course this only relates to reasonable handling fees, otherwise the reward:cost benefit wouldn't be high enough to compensate the difference.
Rocker
