posted on January 14, 2001 01:32:10 PM newI leave feedback when they have paid. I HATE it well other sellers DON'T! It seems REALLY unfair to the buyer to not leave feedback.
Why is it unfair of me to not leave feedback until the transaction is complete? If I tell you I will leave feedback once you have inspected the product and are happy, how exactly is that unfair? You\'ll get your positive feedback still ... just send me an e-mail so I know our transactionis complete.
Yes, this does mean that I do not leave feedback for buyers who never bother to tell me they have received their product ...
[ edited by Beckles on Jan 14, 2001 01:32 PM ]
posted on January 14, 2001 01:37:25 PM new
Beckles.... it is not unfair, but there are a few out there who feel that everything has to be done their way and they are going to whine about it no matter what.
I just wish they would stop bidding on my auctions and then harrassing me about it.
Stick to your guns and run your auctions as you see fit. And by the way, I agree with how you do things. The only difference is that if I don't hear from them after a couple of weeks past the mailing date, I go ahead and leave a feedback anyway.
Have a happy day!
posted on January 14, 2001 02:32:22 PM new
Crankyoldhag is right. (Love the name)
I know I've said this before: If you give the feedback before the transaction is complete, you have no opportunity to respond to a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde buyer.
I disagree that the buyer has done his/her part once payment is received. They can still come back and demand a refund, or try to scam you in other ways.......with a glowing trail of feedback to shield them so they can do this to other sellers.
Y'all can do what you like: it is your business. However, I will continue to leave feedback once the transaction is completed to my and the buyer's mutual satisfaction.
Feedback is voluntary. If the buyer doesn't leave any for me, that's okay. I'll still leave one for them once I know they received the item and have no problems with it.
posted on January 14, 2001 02:48:47 PM new
I think it saves time when the feedback is posted as soon as payment is received, and it puts the customer at ease. Otherwise they may feel you don't trust them. Most people won't turn into a Jekyl and Hyde.
I always tell them in my EOA and "item shipped" email if they have any questions or concerns to email me right away, and I'll be more than happy to do whatever I can, as I value getting positive feedback.
Leaving a positive for them encourages the buyer to do the same for you. Besides, a lot of post management sotware will automatically post positive feedback and send an email to the buyer.
I do it this way. Occasionally someone will email me with a concern, but I think they like the fact that they are in control, not me, and most people (I found) do not take advantage of that. It may not work for everyone, but it does for me, and the customers like it.
posted on January 14, 2001 03:00:46 PM new
<<If you give the feedback before the transaction is complete...>>
ah, but when is it complete? Is it "complete" when the buyer leaves you feedback, so you do not have to fear "extortion"
or is it complete to you when the buyer emails you and says they are happy, but fails to leave you feedback right at that moment, what's to say they won't become unhappy (the item could break or stop working) and leave a neg after your postitive?
Refusing to leave feedback until and only if you get a glowing report from the buyer is sort of a underhanded way to sell. You must not have much faith in your selling, descriptions or packaging.
posted on January 14, 2001 03:13:23 PM new
why would you take this quote from another thread??? Why not respond there where the poster would see that you have quoted her.??
posted on January 14, 2001 03:31:16 PM new
I consider it complete when the buyer tells me that he is satisfied with the merchandise. At that time, I leave him feedback whether he's given it to me or not. I realize that he can tell me he's happy with it, wait till I leave a positive and then say, "On closer inspection I found a flaw and want a 25% refund for it." I tell buyers not to leave me feedback or tell me they're happy with the merchandise until they've had a chance to thoroughly inspect it.
Also, by waiting until they tell me they got it, it allows me to delete the email about the transaction. At my peak, I'm running about 200 auctions a week and you can imagine how much email I accumulate. If they never contact me then I keep the email until the auction is removed from Ebay's database.
posted on January 14, 2001 03:41:15 PM new
Sorry Barrelracer,
I'm talking about the initial post on this thread.......I was just trying to avoid more ubb booboos, so didn't reference the post...my bad
posted on January 14, 2001 03:44:32 PM new
This thread comes around about every other week and by the sound of things everyone thinks differently. It like what comes first the chicken or the egg. This will never be resolved so why not do it the way you want and then you will feel good about it. I personally leave feedback when I receive the payment. That is the end of the buyers part, it then becomes my part to get it there, the buyer has no action in this part of the auction. In my package, I leave a invoice that says please email me when you get your package so that I know it arrived save and sound. I always get that but I very seldom get a feedback. Women leave feedback almost all the time and Men pay their auctions faster.
posted on January 14, 2001 04:01:46 PM new
The trasaction is not complete until the Buyer receives the merchandise.
I don't wait for the buyer to leave feedback, but I do wait to hear from the buyer once he has received the item.
Paying for the item is only a fraction of the buyers responsibility for the transaction. Too often I get "this isn't what I bid on", or some such plan also don't forget Bounced checks!
posted on January 14, 2001 04:15:27 PM new"Refusing to leave feedback until and only if you get a glowing report from the buyer is sort of a underhanded way to sell."
Yes, and it's also an underhanded way to buy. I don't understand why, if feedback is so important to a buyer, that they don't honor the seller's request to leave feedback first.
Every argument you can dish out, "holding feedback hostage, etc.," can go both ways. But in the case of a buyer who is running a scam, sellers who leave feedback upon receipt of payment are simply holding the door open for that buyer. (And yes, if the item is lost, it should go in the seller's feedback.)
All this talk about feedback extortion is bogus. Buyers think their feedback is like their last trump card. They'll hold it as long as possible, just in case. Sellers are less concerned with getting feedback, because they've already got a good rating. Generally speaking.
Only one poster in the other thread was brave enough to mention an obvious truth. Many buyers never do leave feedback. Let's face it, a seller is lucky to get half the number of feedback returns. If a seller wants to make feedback a prerequisite BEFORE leaving it, I don't have a problem with that. Buyer, if you want feedback, then leave feedback. Is that so hard to understand?
posted on January 14, 2001 04:18:53 PM new
Two points,
1). I haven't noticed that men or women pay faster, or which gender is more likely to leave feedback. If anything, international bidders are most likely to be the quick payers.
I get a lot of bidders, men and women (I would have to say 50/50) that pay by PayPal the day the auction ends.
2. Here is an EXCELLENT example of a happy ending. Last month a buyer won an auction for a $5 item. A few days later, he paid by PayPal, I shipped the same day, posted positive feedback, and emailed him to say the item is on its way.
Today, he emailed me to say the item has not yet arrived and asked if I could send another or give him a refund. Now, he may be pulling a fast one, but I doubt it. He's got 41 positives, no negs. I don't have any more of that item, so I gave him a refund by PayPal.
He had me at his mercy, if you will, in that if I gave him a hard time, he would post a negative to me, and had nothing to loose, since he had a positive from me. I asked if he would mind posting a positive for me, since I was not able to supply another product, but gave him a full refund (no deduction for postage)
He just posted me a nice positive feedback "Seller very responsive, issued refund for item lost in mail!"
posted on January 14, 2001 04:21:50 PM newLibra, I overlooked your post. You are like most sellers. You leave feedback, then don't get any in return.
If we were to chart this, I think we'd get a good bit of overlap between the majority of buyers who complain they don't get feedback immediately, and the majority who never leave feedback themselves.
posted on January 14, 2001 04:53:24 PM new
I always leave feedback if I buy or sell and will continue to do so. I do appreciate an email saying the item arrived from buyers, but I don't care if they leave me feedback or not. It isn't worth worrying about
posted on January 14, 2001 05:05:38 PM new"Here is an EXCELLENT example of a happy ending..."
Okay, fine. Here's an example of an UNhappy ending.
Received check in the amount of $11.98 from customer. Shipped item immediately. Two weeks later ckeck returned for insufficient funds. Emailed buyer, left negative feedback. No response to my email. (For checks under $20 I ship immediately. Usually no problem.)
Today I got a COMPLAINT from the buyer: "Never received item, no response to email."
If I had left feedback upon receipt of payment, there would be no way to alert others to this scam artist. (He's been emailing me for some time complaining that his CD never arrived. No doubt a lie.) He has a low reedback rating, and half the comments are complaints! Luckily I can point to his rating, and to the negs, which clearly demonstrate he is a scam artist.
posted on January 14, 2001 05:24:26 PM newIf a seller wants to make feedback a prerequisite BEFORE leaving it, I don't have a problem with that
Well, I don't either, but put that in your auction, so I know not to buy from you. I made up my mind awhile ago that the next seller who informs me that they will leave feedback only after I do will get a neg from me for holding feedback hostage, unless they change their policy and leave it first.
cariad
posted on January 14, 2001 05:40:21 PM new
You know I really don't like the generalization on these threads that sellers are better at leaving feedback then buyers.
I am a buyer only, and have left feedback on every purchase (except the two where the seller was NARUed before I could leave negs). I have received about 90% in return.
So please, when talking about who leaves more feedback, don't lump all sellers or all buyers into one catagory.
Greg
P.S. I really hate getting notes from sellers that they "will leave feedback when I leave it". Doesn't stop me from leaving feedback, but I just put them on my don't buy from again list.
posted on January 14, 2001 05:53:27 PM new
twinsoft, I agree with you if they send a check, because you can't be sure if it will clear.
That's why I don't accept checks. Most other forms of payment are generally safe, so I have no hesitation leaving positive feedback. If I were to accept checks, I would hold back on posting feedback for a few weeks.
As several people have mentioned here, buyers feel more comfortable with sellers who leave feedback first, and I don't blame them.
posted on January 14, 2001 06:16:50 PM new
Motive8. I would be nervous about that positive feedback. This puts ideas in heads of dishonest buyers and I hope that that doesn't happen. Feedbacks are nice but I will not ask for any like when I am a buyer some sellers email you and ask that after you have received the package and say it arrived safely and in good condition, I will leave positive feedback and hope that you will do the same.
[ edited by libra63 on Jan 14, 2001 06:19 PM ]
posted on January 14, 2001 06:19:55 PM new
If you are a full-time seller on ebay, and you really think giving a buyer a negative because they gave you one is evening it out, you and I differ in this view.
A unhappy buyer, to a professional seller, can do a heck of a lot more damage. Do you really think that buyer's negative you gave him will hurt him as much as his, and his unhappiness will hurt your sales? A pleased buyer tells his relatives and friends about your auctions. An unhappy one does too.
So many sellers seem to have the idea the buyer is out to scam them. Did you ever think that that buyer has to have an element of trust to send their money to you in the first place? Put yourself in their place. I have sent money off to sellers, following their TOS. I ask them to email me when they get it. About 2 weeks later my item shows up. That's about the extent of contact with them.
I do not leave feedback for sellers first Nor do I ask a seller to leave feedback for me.
I leave feedback for a buyer. I ask the buyer to leave feedback when they receive the item. I do not have to ask them to leave it if they like the item, because in my auction I tell them I will work with them if they do not.
A buyer doesn't have to promise he is going to like the item, and you can't guarantee it will get there undamaged, or get there at all.
I really don't understand why so many sellers have so many problems with buyers and feedback. I find most buyers on ebay pleasant to work with, and I difuse situations before they esculate.
edited ubb, I never change my words.
~Not barrelracer on ebay, don't pick on them!~
[ edited by barrelracer on Jan 14, 2001 06:24 PM ]
posted on January 14, 2001 06:26:08 PM new
Whatever works for you, but I still don't see any reason for buyers to be obstinate, only comments like "I'd never buy from that seller." So, why?
Comments like "if he asks for feedback first, he'll get a neg" are petty and childish. (BTW, If it happened to me, I think that buyer would have EARNED a negative response.)
We can agree to disagree. I have my opinion, too. I believe that sellers who leave feedback before the transaction is finished (buyer approves of item) are misusing/abusing the feedback forum. Again, I don't have a problem with that, because the feedback forum doesn't work well and puts sellers at risk.
On the other hand, buyers who DEMAND feedback first are no better than sellers who do the same, so let's be fair here.
posted on January 14, 2001 06:34:42 PM new
twinsoft,
If your statement
<<On the other hand, buyers who DEMAND feedback first are no better than sellers who do the same, so let's be fair here>>
was meant for me you misunderstood my statement. I do not demand sellers leave feedback. I said I do not leave feedback for sellers first. Nor do I ask them for it.
This translates to say if a seller does not leave feedback for me, he doesn't get it from me either.
This goes hand in hand with my selling. As a seller I leave feedback first. As a buyer I expect the same.
If I had a store and you came in to buy, you would want to be treated like a buyer.
If I came in to your store to buy, you should not be treated like the buyer.
posted on January 14, 2001 07:01:13 PM new
The reason I leave feedback right away is that I do accept Personal checks, which I do not hold, Money order or PayPal. If their check bounces it is really my fault because I didn't hold it. In my 30+ years of craft fairs, flea markets and now ebay I have had only 1 check bounce and that buyer wrote and told me it was going to bounce and she paid all the charges. You don't have to worry about Money orders or PayPal. I also insure every package that leaves my hands so therefore if it is lost the buyer is covered. My S/H includes partial insurance and then I put the rest on. This is for my protection.
posted on January 14, 2001 07:10:13 PM new
Hi, Barrelracer. No, I wasn't referring to your post. But regarding your comment specifically, I would say this (because it relates to an attitude that is common to many buyers and sellers):
I see a problem when a user says, "that's how I treat customers, so that's how I like to be treated." That approach can easily turn into, "YOU will do things MY way!!" and that applies to both buyers and sellers. Everyone does business their own way, and no one way is right or wrong (unless it is illegal).
There is no "right" answer, but I find arguments such as "buyer earns feedback upon payment" to be very weak. Many problems can occur after payment arrives. Feedback is not a grade or a score, it is for the benefit of OTHER users. Folks are too hung up on getting a "high score" and are missing the point of feedback.
I would also criticize sellers who bend over backwards in order to avoid negative feedback. They are doing a disservice to the next seller down the line who is unprepared to deal with your nutcase. Their goal is to mislead the eBay community by putting their own pristine feedback first.
Feedback doesn't tell the whole story. It is only a guideline. I have a friendly competitor at eBay. We both began around the same time and sell similar items. Our ratings are about the same, but she has far less complaints than I do. Her standard practice is to skirt eBay rules at every opportunity. She just got back from a suspension and she's already up to her old tricks. But she has also mastered the art of the "warm fuzzies" and this is reflected in her feedback profile.
I will tell you my personal take on this. My obligation is to describe the item accurately, ship quickly and provide limited after the sale support. That does not include bending over backwards, letting customers run the show, or singing at my customer's wedding. I don't expect feedback or any special treatment when I buy.
posted on January 14, 2001 07:15:53 PM new
libra63, I may be putting ideas in buyer's heads by leaving that positive feedback, but most of the time it works out well.
If someone really wants to pull a fast one, they'll do it anyways. I just like the buyer to feel more at ease, so I leave positive feedback first, and, honestly, hope for the best. I thought about not leaving feedback too, and it was a tough choice, but I chose on this method. Another reason was convenience, as soon as payment arrives, I post the feedback and don't have to go back to it later.
BTW, you've had very good luck with checks, most people are not that lucky.
posted on January 14, 2001 07:26:25 PM newtwinsoft to answer you question about why I would not buy again from a seller who required I leave feedback before they leave feedback.
It really boils down to one of those feelings of "I don't like the way I have just been treated. This seller is making me feel like I can't be trusted to leave reasonable feedback."
I guess it is like walking into a RL store and have the clerks sneer down their nose at you just because you happen to be wearing jeans and a tee shirt. Not the kind of place I am likely to return. (Reminds me of the sceene in "Perty Woman" where she walks back into the botique dressed to the nines and says see how much you lost)
posted on January 14, 2001 07:29:02 PM new
Actually, because I am a seller, I think that makes me a better buyer.
I am very careful to follow another seller's TOS, and send a MO off the next day.
If I don't hear from a seller at all for about a week I will ask them if my payment got there OK.
I recently have been on the other end, where a seller was very lax in answering emails and had one excuse after another why they weren't shipping. It took 2 weeks from the arrival of my MO to get my item. Weather was not a factor in this one. Ironically, they demanded payment in 7 days!
I agree, because I am seller I expect other sellers to respond like I do, but I do not demand it of them.
But I can fully understand the frustration of the buyers out here.
