posted on January 14, 2001 05:31:05 PM new
As long as retaliatory feedback is allowed by Ebay, the feedback system
will just not work.
I agree with sosoal!
I don't leave negative feedback because like mshomo, it
makes me feel uneasy. I can't help but wonder if some legitimate
problem may be involved in non payment or failure to follow through
with a transaction.
In my case, I deserve more positive feedback than I receive and I certainly
don't need negative feedback that is undeserved. That's crazy.
posted on January 14, 2001 05:38:39 PM newHJW: By not leaving NEGATIVE feedbacks where they are deserved, YOU are making the feedback system not work as well. What if you have a high bidder who does not pay after 1 month. You look at their feedback and they have 3 NEGS for non-payment. You STILL aren't going to NEG them?? THAT'S crazy. Do you at least file your NPB's and FVF's???
posted on January 14, 2001 05:48:51 PM new
Actually, I don't have a big problem with
non paying bidders.
I simply choose not to use a system that
doesn't work.
posted on January 14, 2001 05:53:18 PM newHelen: If ALL sellers gave negs to the deadbeat bidders, the system would work a lot better than letting the deadbeats get away with not paying their sellers.
When you go through your bidder list and click on someone's feedback and see that they have a lot of negs for non-payment would you cancel their bid? Because all of us sellers out there who are NEGGING these deadbeats all did YOU a favor.
I personally think it's unfair how some sellers refuse to leave NEGS just because of fear of retaliation. You guys just aren't doing your part. We may get a few NEGS in retaliation but at least we're doing our part to help the Ebay community. It won't get any better by letting these deadbeats get away with not paying.
posted on January 14, 2001 06:03:16 PM new
I think both Excecutive girl and Helen have a good point, we need to leave negatives when deserved, but the system is flawed in that we can receive a retaliatory feedback in return. I KNOW many sellers don't leave negs just for this reason.
We should all write to eBay to suggest that they make it so that once a NPB alert is issued, feedback cannot be left. EBay could then post an automated negative (or override a previously left neg) and either leave no feedback or a neutral for the seller stating "fees credited for NPB"
posted on January 14, 2001 06:04:13 PM new
Helen, please help me understand something here.
You said you don't file NEGS because "it makes me feel uneasy. I can't help but wonder if some legitimate problem may be involved in non payment or failure to follow through with a transaction.".
BUT...
You also say "I do file NPB's and FVF's..
Filing the FVF's are more critical to the buyer - and could get them NARU'd. So for that, you don't mind if they have a legitimate problem that may be involved in non payment or failure to follow through with a transaction.
But giving them a simple NEG doesn't really affect them as much as a FVF complaint, but you WON'T give them a NEG. Not because of the "uneasy feeling that they may have a legitamate proble", but because you don't want the retaliatory NEG. If that was your main concern you wouldn't file the NPB or FVF.
[ edited by ExecutiveGirl on Jan 14, 2001 06:05 PM ]
posted on January 14, 2001 06:13:09 PM new
I am also the recipient of retalitory negative feedback. It still bothers me to this day (it was about 6 months ago) mostly because I did everything I was supposed to do. I waited 30 days after the auction,then filed the NPB. Waited another ten days and filed for the FVC. Then I left the NFB. The next day I got a nasty email and NFB. I agree, that if I get my FVC, then this auction is null & void and the bidder should not be able to leave any feedback. I wrote SEVERAL times to Ebay but just got the same canned response, read the feedback removal terms.
posted on January 14, 2001 06:28:16 PM new
ExecutiveGirl
There are so many variables. For example, if I file a NPB and if the
buyer receives the note that Ebay sends, then I might receive
payment.
But then, I don't want to force some bidder to purchase an item
that they for some strange reason have decided that they do not
want. It's too easy to relist the item and sell it to another buyer.
I don't cancel bids because the bidder has negatives. Generally,
I don't even check their feedback. I deal with everybody equally.
If I do see a lot of negatives I just assume that I will have a
problem and in that case, I don't send the item out until I receive
payment.
So it's no big deal. It's a lot easier not to worry about it.
posted on January 14, 2001 06:31:18 PM new
About the NPB's....I understand that they
cannot be NARU unless they have 3 or so.
In this case, They probably deserve it.
posted on January 14, 2001 06:39:07 PM new
ExecutiveGirl,
Your comment,"But giving them a simple NEG doesn't really affect them as much as a FVF complaint, but you WON'T give them a NEG. Not because of the "uneasy feeling that they may have a legitamate proble", but because you don't want the retaliatory NEG. If that was your main concern you wouldn't file the NPB or FVF."
This is not the case. I am concerned about
both problems. I have had a couple of cases
in which the buyer had a good reason not to
send payment...and I am happy that I did not
leave a negative. I check feedback before
leaving the Fvf and if the feedback is good.
I don't file that either.
And I don't want undeserved negative feedback. I am sincerely concerned with both
problems.
posted on January 14, 2001 07:01:07 PM new
dinapal and motive8,
Writing to Ebay would seem to be the most
reasonable thing to do to correct this
problem. But I have heard so many stories
about failed efforts along this line .
I think that they have a policy that is set
in stone. I think that they will remove
vulgar feedback but other that that, as
dinapal said, they tell you to read the
rules.
posted on January 15, 2001 01:50:13 AM newWe should all write to eBay to suggest that they make it so that once a NPB alert is issued, feedback cannot be left.
HOW TO RIP OFF BIDDERS!
Step #1) Build nominal amount of pos feedback.
Step #2) List expensive widget(s) for auction.
Step #3) Collect money for auction(s) and pocket same.
Step #4) File NPB'S (and post neg feedback if required) on the above auction(s).
Step #5) Repeat steps 2 through 4.
What exactly is going to stop someone from doing this? Not the poor bidders who got ripped off CAUSE THEY CAN'T LEAVE FEEDBACK!!!. There are already scam artists on ebay doing this, don't make it easier for them.
What about the times the payment really is lost in the mail? Too bad for the buyer, huh. They lose their payment and their chance of leaving feedback (even though they did everything they were supposed to do) just cause you mistakenly think they are deadbeats.
Yes, the feedback system is very badly flawed, but this is not the answer. Nor is anything that will require a human being to make an evaluation or decision. With the number of auctions going ebay just can't afford it.
The best solution I've heard is Sosoal's idea of showing how many NPS were filed on the bidder. I would recommend that along with the number of positives, neutrals, and negatives someone has recieved, the new screen will also show how many NPBs have been filed on a person. This will be automatic when a NPB is filed, but the seller will have the ability to remove it if the item is paid for, or the problem is otherwise resolved. It would also be nice if there was a comparison to how many auctions the person successfully bid on. I think it might make a difference if someone had two NPBs out of two hundred winning bids versus two out of twelve. Then, after a certain number of NPBs (or a certain percentage) they would be NARU'd.
posted on January 15, 2001 04:08:26 AM new
BlondeSense,
That's a good point you brought up. No matter which way you look at, someone has too much control and is at the mercy of the other person.
Short of using escrow and insurance for each and every item, it's hard to reach a compromise. (Hardly practical for $5 items)
NPB alerts should be made available for viewing by everyone, and relative to how many successful bids a buyer had.
There has to be a way of leaving negative feedback to a buyer who deserves it without risking retaliatory feedback.
Maybe after a user reaches their allowable percentage of NPB alerts (as suggested, relative to the total number of succesful bids), that feedback only then be blocked, but even that is open to abuse.
posted on January 15, 2001 05:45:15 AM new
I checked the negs I've left (120 over 3 years). Kind of like looking at those wanted posters in the post office. Ah, memories...
Left a negative feedback yesterday. It was difficult, because the customer left a complaint for me first, and it was not totally undeserved (like most are). I notified her the item had been shipped earlier than it actually had. Then it got delayed or lost in the mail (which was NOT my fault).
What was aggravating was that I made a special effort to be the best seller I could be. I apologized profusely that the item was lost in the mail, and I was very reassuring that a refund or replacement would be issued. I told her she only needed to send a signed letter in order to receive a refund.
Well, she negged me, but I still wanted to take the high road. I kept my cool, and all the while she's as sweet as pie in our emails, and acting like the whole thing is just beyond her, she doesn't know if she can trust me, doesn't want this to slip off the databse, etc. I sloughed off her neg, assured her, etc., but also reminded her that two weeks is not such a long delay at Christmas.
Then I got a note from eBay that she had filed a fraud charge against me. That was the last straw. Especially since I was trying to be really nice (and if you know me, you know that's unusual!). So I left a complaint for her too. What a pill! Of course I will resend her item, and get a signature this time, but she can kiss my fanny any more! So much for Mr. Nice Guy. Sigh.
posted on January 15, 2001 06:34:04 AM newBlondesense:
HOW TO RIP OFF BIDDERS!
The only way that would actually work like that (ripping off bidders succesfully) is if the bidder paid in CASH.
If a bidder paid with a check it can be traced to see when it cashed.
If a bidder paid with a MO or Cashier's Check they can be traced.
If a bidder paid with Credit Card it can be traced.
So I fail to see how a seller can successfully just "pocket" the money and walk away from the transaction. If the buyer can prove that they paid, then they should be able to leave feedback. If they can't, then they most likely didn't pay to begin with.
posted on January 15, 2001 07:14:32 AM newExecutive Girl, If a bidder pays by check and the check is lost in the mail it won't be cashed. I guess the bidder can send another check, but there would be no way to determine whether the check was actually sent the first time so the seller may be in for a long wait for the check to arrive.
I agree with sosoal's idea, let ebay post the NPB alert in the buyer's FB profile and it's up to the buyer to prove they paid to get it removed. Yes, the buyer can say the check was lost in the mail, but this will only work twice and if it happens with different sellers, ebay won't believe it.
posted on January 15, 2001 10:28:48 AM newIf I do see a lot of negatives I just assume that I will have a problem and in that case, I don't send the item out until I receive payment.
Pardon me, but although you refuse to leave neg FB, you take advantage of the information (negs) other sellers have taken the trouble to leave about a bidder to protect YOUR business?
posted on January 15, 2001 12:13:51 PM newExecutiveGirl, how many individual complaints to ebay would it take to get someone NARU'd? Does ebay keep a database that includes compaints against a particular seller? I hope so, otherwise, without feedback to show it, these people could go on forever.
Yes, all of those payments can be traced, so what? So you have your canceled check, or your money order stub, and you find out it was cashed by Joe Blow in Chicago, then what? You are in L.A. Do you really think you're gonna get your money back? How? Do you know who in Chicago to contact? Do you know how to pursue this? Do you know how to file for mail fraud? Do you know how much time you are going to have to invest in it? Do you know what your long distance phone bill will be?
I don't. I don't have a clue. I guess most buyers don't and the scam artists count on this.
If the buyer can prove that they paid, then they should be able to leave feedback.
First of all, the words "innocent until proven guilty come to mind". Second of all, prove to whom? Ebay? Have you ever gotten anything but a canned response from them? They will never put into place any functionality that requires a human being to make an evaluation or decision. They can't afford to with literally millions of auctions running an any one time. People cost money.
BlondeSense is my buying ID on ebay. Check out my feedback. I am the bidder of your dreams, but if ebay ever gave the seller the power to say what they want about me and not allow me to respond, I would never buy on ebay again.
[ edited by BlondeSense on Jan 15, 2001 01:21 PM ]
posted on January 15, 2001 05:22:25 PM new
I have left 3 or 4 negs don't recall exact number and have received 0. So leaving a neg does not garntee receiving one. What convinced me to start leaving them was a letter to the ebay community from Pierre a few years ago To paraphrse he said we owe it to each other to leave negs (evan if it means receiving one). Negs don't bother me either for a buyer or a seller what I am more intersted in is the person being neggeds response to the comment it can speak volumes about them (sorta like when you pull up behind a vehicle with a obscene , offensive bumper sticker I am always gratefull that they let me know ahead of time who they are !!!
posted on January 15, 2001 08:38:35 PM newcix, no I did not know that. I am not concerned because her complaint is bogus, but if you could provide a link I would be curious to check up on the rules. Thanks. Steve
