raygomez
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posted on January 18, 2001 05:14:48 AM
Don't forget the IRS.
Ebay is also cooperating with the IRS to catch tax cheats. There are many millions of dollars in taxable income on eBay!
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kudzurose
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posted on January 18, 2001 06:04:12 AM
I agree 100% with wildanteeker. eBay would be fantastic if the scammers (both buying and selling) could be banished. Many, many more honest buyers would be attracted to the site.
And I don't understand why anyone so concerned about their privacy would EVER have registered on eBay!
[ edited by kudzurose on Jan 18, 2001 06:05 AM ]
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Pocono
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posted on January 18, 2001 06:19:17 AM
After reading some of these comments, it's no wonder the government gets away with it.
If you had any idea about what the gov. does with what it knows about each one of you, you would think differently.
.
[ edited by Pocono on Jan 18, 2001 07:20 AM ]
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gravid
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posted on January 18, 2001 06:19:44 AM
wildanteeker - There speaks someone who has never been accused of anything. A loyal hall monitor firm in the conviction that they are on the side of the angels.
After someone
says that you accepted stolen goods or defrauded them and you have the manacles slapped on and get jerked around and slapped silly on the way to being booked and printed you will start to see the value of due process.
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kudzurose
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posted on January 18, 2001 06:40:17 AM
gravid - What part of wildanteeker's post says that he doesn't support the right to due process?
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RM
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posted on January 18, 2001 06:54:37 AM
Hi CarrieKirby,
It seems to me that eBay's claim to be "just a venue" is relevent here. Here's what eBay claims to be: (from the user agreement)
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3.eBay is Only a Venue.
3.1 Overview. Our site acts as the venue for sellers to list items (or,as appropriate, solicit offers to buy) and buyers to bid on items. We are not involved in the actual transaction between buyers and sellers. As a result, we have no control over the quality, safety or legality of the items advertised, the truth or accuracy of the listings, the ability of sellers to sell items or the ability of buyers to buy items. We cannot ensure that a buyer or seller will actually complete a transaction.
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Seems like eBay is making it very clear that they ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE. It looks to me like eBay is telling it's members that they are on their own as far as legal recourse and law enforcement issues. So, I have to wonder why, if eBay truly believes it's "only a venue", is eBay going so far out of it's way getting involved in "safety" or "legality" which they claim to have "no control over".
Ray
[ edited by RM on Jan 18, 2001 07:00 AM ]
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wildanteeker
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posted on January 18, 2001 07:14:04 AM
Criminals always seem to have more rights than their victims so why should the Internet be any different.I just know alot of people I talk with hear negative things about fraud on the Internet and they tell me "I would never buy anything on there it is too risky".I am not saying all but some do.Is that good P.R.?
I agree you were wrongly accused at one time gravid but I just think that if there is some legal loophole letting these criminals proceed with fraud on the Internet why is it so bad that they should not be aloud to chase them?I have nothing to hide and besides as I stated in my post what is the difference when you sign on to eBay you are giving all your info anyway in order to buy or sell?I just think it will hurt sales if these people continue to be able to carry on without any policing or Government invovlment at all.That to me can only hurt the rest of us as the public will lose confidence in online trading.
As for being a "Robot".Giving out such information to bring to justice those who choose to prey on trusting inocent people in my "opinion" is just the right thing to do.That does not make me a "robot" it makes me a "legal law obiding citizen" who is eager to see these criminals brought to justice who use the Internet to hide and seemingly carry on without fear of their criminal activity being detected.Get it off the Internet we do not need it.Maybe this will make the criminal think twice before they use this new tool for their crimes.
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If I had money I'd be rich!
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My Bit
[ edited by wildanteeker on Jan 18, 2001 07:15 AM ]
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Pocono
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posted on January 18, 2001 07:25:49 AM
I think we are different pages here...
NO ONE is saying to protect criminals.
They threw out a $62 Million Dollar drug bust here a few weeks back, due to the fact that cops conducted an illegal search of a car.
Why should the government not at least need a valid reason to pillage our information from ebay?
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on January 18, 2001 07:32:46 AM
I have nothing to hide...
I'm sorry- I have a hard time statements like this. Just because you (in general- not anyone in specific) don't find revealing certain things about yourself to be intrusive does not mean that everybody else will agree.
Would you voluntarily post your name, address, phone number, social security number, birthday, credit card number and your mother's maiden name on an internet message board?
Are you sure you have nothing to hide?
Everybody's got something to hide, except for me and my monkey (John, Paul, George and Ringo)
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wildanteeker
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posted on January 18, 2001 08:02:48 AM
All I am saying is that I think these people should be brought to justice.
Yes I agree Mr Potatoehead not all will want to have their info exposed and want to keep their privacy.I can see your point wanting to keep these privacy rights and what little we have left.If it once gets out of control I think that it would hurt the Internet as a whole and that would in turn "I think" hurt online trading.Might be better to nip it in the bud so to speak.It is afterall eBays webspace and you would think it would be in their best interests and that of the shareholders to keep this type of activity in check...no?Whether or not it is just a "venue" the activity happens there right underneath the eBay logo.I would think they would want to protect that.
Pocono I would think as sellers it would be in our best interestes to have these people off eBay.If they continue to flourish it will only help to erode any consumer confidence that has been built up by legitimate sellers.
"I give" I am "well done"
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If I had money I'd be rich!
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My Bit
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codasaurus
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posted on January 18, 2001 08:32:54 AM
Hello CarrieKirby,
I don't think you will find many "average" eBayers here. It takes a certain type of individual to post to online boards.
Why not do the job a bit more scientifically? You could perhaps make some purchases from a cross section of sellers and categories and then ask if they would be agreeable to being interviewed.
How you would tap into the eBayers who are primarily buyers is a bit more problematical. But eBay does have everyone's notification preferences on record and they might agree to allow you access to the email addys of folks who have indicated they will accept email.
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gravid
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posted on January 18, 2001 08:40:06 AM
Perhaps we are not talking about the same thing.
I am talking about the mindless "I will give law enforcement anything they ask for." attitude. Not responding to valid warrents.
This just invites blind fishing expeditions.
If there is probable cause law enforcement can get warrents from the court to have information released to them.
Where I lived a while back the FBI went into the local library and made a list of books they deemed of interest to potential criminals. They then asked the library for a list of everyone who had taken the books out. They were refused.
If it had been eBay they would have rolled over and delivered it right up.
It isn't just about fraud.
Maybe the next inquiry to eBay will be for people who have bid on subversive books and books that could be used to make weapons such as microbiology text books.
Don't forget that eBay is international. Are they going to cooperate with all law enforsement? Will they help Chinese authorities suppress movements there?
We have agencies today appraising peoples property values before deciding whether they should raid them under the forfeiture laws.
Perhaps you list a lot of high value items on eBay. That could make you a target right there.
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wildanteeker
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posted on January 18, 2001 09:07:11 AM
I said "I give"
Just one thing though I think "suppressing Chinese movements" is kinda grasping at straws here.I am very much toasted though.After all I just screwed up a question about my own Postal system in another post.Oh well back to my basket weaving
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If I had money I'd be rich!
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My Bit
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gravid
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posted on January 18, 2001 09:20:39 AM
Sorry - Don't mean to over do it. Don't mean to apply any heat at all. I really think a lot of these internet companies can't think ahead at all. They just throw something out there and hold their breath to see what will happen. PayPal is great for that. They change their terms of use like I change socks. I'm just glad they don't number revisions. I gave up printing out the current one.
I'd like to see fraud addressed better also.
To do so they would have to screen buyers, which nobody seems to want, and give up this only a venue fantasy. Maybe after some court cases shatter that venue mantra like a glass vase shipped in a paper bag thet can move on to doing something.
[ edited by gravid on Jan 18, 2001 09:24 AM ]
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wildanteeker
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posted on January 18, 2001 09:28:10 AM
I think I am just to passive and hate to see people get burned.This is fun though and gravid you can really turn up the propane there my friend.You are right though they do just throw these things up and then when it gets out of control no one knows how to fix it?I think the Internet is still to young yet and we will undoubtedly see more and more Government control whether we like it or not.I just hope they nail some of these guys before they con to many people and they lose confidence the "good guys".
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If I had money I'd be rich!
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My Bit
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CarrieKirby
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posted on January 18, 2001 12:31:45 PM
hi folks, specifically i'm interested in using a quote from a post from MRBucks and one from Kudzurose. if either of you would like, i could use your real names. if you're interested, could you e-mail me your real names and a contact number? otherwise i'll just use your nicknames.
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kudzurose
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posted on January 18, 2001 01:03:55 PM
Hi, Carrie - you may email me at [email protected] if you'd like.
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CarrieKirby
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posted on January 22, 2001 06:36:54 PM
in search of gravid... gravid, if you are still out there, could you please e-mail me? i'd like to quote you by name if possible (my story is postponed until this coming sunday)
carrie kirby, sf chronicle
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