posted on November 21, 2001 12:26:18 AM new
To lkturner,
I am also in Canada and feel that Paypal only protect US users. Please check my case I posted on Nov 20.
Thanks,
maple125
posted on December 5, 2001 01:49:45 AM new
Mike Hoover
Good Luck Mike, your gonna need it as PayPal could care less about its customers. Funny how most companies with that approach go out of business soon after they get started. PayPal eventually will as long as they keep up this absurdity. After all this is America where customer service determines how long you will be in business. I guess PayPal doesn't realize just how much business 1 angry customer can cost them but believe me they will. I will never do business with them or anyone affiliated with them ever again.
posted on December 5, 2001 04:24:08 AM new
Thanks Dealer Jim. As far as Paypal goes, I consider it the same as sending cash through the mail now. You take your chances. If someone rips you off, there's nothing you can do. As a heavy eBay user I find that less and less people will take Paypal every day. I find myself writing more and more checks. They obviously are not making a lot of people happy and many are very adamently refusing to accept them anymore.
I feel compelled to point out, as many here have, that Damon from Paypal is a good guy to contact for information and problems. I contacted him about a problem I was having unrelated to the case I posted. He got me the info I needed and helped me through the issue.
posted on December 5, 2001 02:16:04 PM new
Hi mikehoover,
Thanks for the kind words about me
Would writing a check guarantee that a seller would send goods? Would sending a money order? Users do need to use some discretion when sending payment through any medium, be it electronic or good old paper checks/money orders (actually, a study I read recently had 80% of the fraud related to auctions happening with checks/money orders).
Hi maple125 and dealerjim,
PayPal is a payment service, which means that we can't verify the items for sale at another venue. We also can't guarantee that a party will delivered as promised (not an escrow service).
Our verification techniques, as well as our Buyer Complaint Process, are in place to help deter fraud.
I also hope you realize that I do sympathize with your case(s). I am also trying to show the limitations.
I am sorry to hear of your issues with the sellers.
posted on December 5, 2001 02:43:56 PM new
I have been following this discussion for quite a long time and STILL believe in PayPal. I don't always agree with the things they do - like requiring us to only use them on eBay BUT I have never found them not to stand behind me when I needed it. They have always answered my questions in a timely manner and very informative. I think they have a tough time trying to answer all of the questions because I know that I sometimes don't use the correct verbage in asking my questions. It is clear to me so, of course, it should be clear to them ... NOT ... they are as human as I am and don't always look at it the way I do. I am a Senior Citizen and am having to learn a whole new language which is not easy at my age. Anyhow, my thinking is that the biggest problem out there is very simply communications. And, if we don't get the answer we need, keep persevering until we are understood - young and old alike. Oh, I don't have my eyes closed to the con man/woman but I just exercise every caution I can and try to to conduct my business as just that. PayPal has no more control over whether a person is honest or not - they are just here to provide a service which I believe they do very admirably.
I have never received a bad check yet thru my sales on eBay (500+) but did when I was doing craft shows. Got a $350 check that bounced. I ran it thru the requred times and because it was so large, caused me to have some bounce. I ended up going to a collection agency who, in turn, took them to court and ended up getting every penny I was out plus their expenses plus court costs.
posted on December 5, 2001 07:05:00 PM new
Hi Damon:
The point you make is the same point I was trying to make. Paypal offers no more protection than any other payment method. If you remember back to my original issue, it's not that Paypal offers no protection, it's that they present verbiage leading you to believe that it is somehow safer than any other method. That's always been my issue. The "Verified" member means nothing. Verified members commit fraud. Verifying people is a waste of time since it is meaningless. Plus, you yourself showed me a way that a person can have a verified address without Paypal actually verifying it. So, not only does dealing with a Verified member mean nothing, there's no guarantee that the member's address has been verified even if Paypal says it has been verified.
But this is really beating a dead horse. The point I was making to Dealer Jim is that when I use Paypal, I consider it the same as sending cash through the mail. And I have no problem with THAT. Most of the time I'll get my merchandise, but occasionally I won't. It's like playing the slots. People commit fraud and some amount of it is to be expected. You just accept your losses.
posted on December 5, 2001 07:10:07 PM new
Hi mikehoover,
We do a fair amount of recovery for users with the Buyer Complaint Process. However, we can't always guarantee that we will be able to.
Verification simply further gives credibility to the id of the individual, but it does not verify their behavior. Verification does deter fraud, as someone with the intent to defraud woudn't want to supply information that identifies them.
I am not entirely sure what you mean by:
" Verifying people is a waste of time since it is meaningless. Plus, you yourself showed me a way that a person can have a verified address without Paypal actually verifying it. So, not only does dealing with a Verified member mean nothing, there's no guarantee that the member's address has been verified even if Paypal says it has been verified."
Verification is done for personal identification purposes, but does not verify the street address. Confirming a credit card is what confirms (verifies) a street address. The two items are entirely separate.
Users should use some caution with higher-value items, as they are providing cash to the party they are sending it to.
posted on December 5, 2001 07:30:28 PM new
This horse is practically Alpo. My point was, as far as verification goes, you don't even necessarily have a legitimate address. There a thousands of Mike Hoovers in the U.S. A. I get email all the time from people asking me if I'm the Mike Hoover they used to know. Obviously, since I've been ripped off by Verified members, you having their names did not deter them. The argument that I should somehow feel safer because someone's verified or that it somehow deters fraud seems bogus to me since it has never protected me from being ripped off.
I think I've said it enough and there's no sense in continuing to say it anymore. You think you're detering fraud. I've experienced otherwise. You can contiue to make the argument to others but I will never be convinced as long as I'm the victim of Verified members. I'll open up the airways for others now because I think I've spoken on this subject plenty.
Take care Damon. Glad to see you are still around helping people out.
posted on December 6, 2001 02:48:09 AM new
Damon
One of my points is PayPal knows where my money went. They know where the scammer sent it because it was sent to another account or bank account when the scammer emptied the account I depositted the money into. Why cant PayPal do some research and see how many accounts this person has and find out which one has my money in it? It seems to me that this scam is pretty simple in design. The seller waits for you to pay and then transfers the money to another account (another PayPal or bank account). Why cant PayPal follow the trail and find my money and prosecute this moron for fraud? This guy also got about 15 to 20 other people in the same week so I know there have been others to file claims on this guy. Everything this guy was selling was priced between $100 and $400. Thats an awful lot of money to just vanish like a fart in a whirlwind. It seems to me that they just don't want to do anything about it.
posted on December 31, 2001 07:41:17 PM new
Well, I am no mole nor am I paid to verify how great PayPal is. I recently paid for something thru PayPal that I had contracted for. They found out there was a problem with the site and shut the site down. I have been refunded my money in total and it was all due to PayPal. I didn't even know there was a problem until they notified me. When I read back over the responses that have been left, it seems more and more people are speaking out FOR PayPal - I find that in working with my eBay customers, if a mistake is made, it is usually a human mistake. And, for those that get conned, well I believe you left a door open somewhere somewhere most likely. For my money, Pay Pal is the greatest money site out there.
posted on December 31, 2001 07:45:27 PM new
mranaconda that is uncalled for. I have used PayPal for a long time and I love PayPal. I am not a PayPal employee but a verified business owner. If it where not for them I would not be able to run my web site and auctions so smoothly. If you have something nice to say please feel free if not say nothing at all. There are other boards you can state your disaproval this board is for satisfied customers to say THANK YOU to PAYPAL for all they do for us.
posted on January 6, 2002 06:02:38 PM new
I've been with PP for awhile now 150+ transactions. No problems with payers yet. Bought several items, again smooth tranactions. PP Email customer service a bit slow but it worked for me. Called once waited a bit , got through laborious ID verification, thank you!, problem resolved. PPDAMON is my new hero. I sell coins, these people are 99.9% honest so it seems. Electronics & high ticket items seem to cause most problems, don't you think? BUYER BEWARE! This warning apears on EVERY AUCTION PAGE, I wonder why??? Don't you??? Damon, I'll be your mole for t-shirt (XL) The threads that contain gripes with PP are full of poorly written letters, common to many of MY problem buyers. MMMMMMMM wonder if there is a conection here??? PP a very valuble tool for me, I am not a high volume seller. Thanx for a chance to add my 2c.
The threads that contain gripes with PP are full of poorly written letters, common to many of MY problem buyers. MMMMMMMM wonder if there is a conection here??? PP a very valuble tool for me, I am not a high volume seller. Thanx for a chance to add my 2c.